Do any Protestant communities have valid Apostolic Succession?

[EvangelCatholic]

Didn’t the churches of Scandinavia into eastern Europe merely change their affiliation from Roman Catholic to Lutheran during the Reformation? Formerly Roman Catholic bishops who rejected the See of Rome and embraced Augustana. Today all bishops in the Lutheran Church [ELCA] are consecrated by a bishop in apostolic succession [either European Lutheran or Episcopal].

Also the Moravian Church has apostolic succession.

 

[Jotto]

Didn’t the churches of Scandinavia into eastern Europe merely change their affiliation from Roman Catholic to Lutheran during the Reformation? Formerly Roman Catholic bishops who rejected the See of Rome and embraced Augustana. Today all bishops in the Lutheran Church [ELCA] are consecrated by a bishop in apostolic succession [either European Lutheran or Episcopal].

Also the Moravian Church has apostolic succession.

Yes, EvangelCatholic, the Churches of Sweden and of Finland maintained the practice of succession during the Reformation until now extending it during the past century into Africa, Latin America and the Middle East and finally to the ELCA in the United States. Unlike the Anglican succession, Rome has never pronounced this succession to be invalid. But because most of these Churches are now ordaining women presbyters and in some cases bishops, any question of said successions being valid will soon be ruled out by the magisterium of the Roman Church.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Didn’t the churches of Scandinavia into eastern Europe merely change their affiliation from Roman Catholic to Lutheran during the Reformation? Formerly Roman Catholic bishops who rejected the See of Rome and embraced Augustana. Today all bishops in the Lutheran Church [ELCA] are consecrated by a bishop in apostolic succession [either European Lutheran or Episcopal].

Also the Moravian Church has apostolic succession.

:nope:

 

[Peter_J]

Yes, EvangelCatholic, the Churches of Sweden and of Finland maintained the practice of succession during the Reformation until now extending it during the past century into Africa, Latin America and the Middle East and finally to the ELCA in the United States. Unlike the Anglican succession, Rome has never pronounced this succession to be invalid. But because most of these Churches are now ordaining women presbyters and in some cases bishops, any question of said successions being valid will soon be ruled out by the magisterium of the Roman Church.

That’s about the size of it.

 

[JonNC]

Yes, EvangelCatholic, the Churches of Sweden and of Finland maintained the practice of succession during the Reformation until now extending it during the past century into Africa, Latin America and the Middle East and finally to the ELCA in the United States. Unlike the Anglican succession, Rome has never pronounced this succession to be invalid. But because most of these Churches are now ordaining women presbyters and in some cases bishops, any question of said successions being valid will soon be ruled out by the magisterium of the Roman Church.

And rightly so. And this is the irony of the ecumenical dialogue position of the LWF; on the one hand urging Eucharistic hospitality between Lutherans and Catholics, while on the other hand instituting heterodox innovations that make such hospitality less and less likely.

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

And rightly so. And this is the irony of the ecumenical dialogue position of the LWF; on the one hand urging Eucharistic hospitality between Lutherans and Catholics, while on the other hand instituting heterodox innovations that make such hospitality less and less likely.

Jon

Perhaps, Jon. But I think many Lutherans and Anglicans see it differently. That we are paving the way for other Christians, including Catholics to embrace women clergy. I believe even the Missouri Synod will eventually allow female pastors as well as some of the more conservative Lutherans in eastern Europe, Africa, etc. The Anglican Communion is steadily moving in that direction and I believe many Protestant groups such as Methodist, Presbyterian, etc are also recognizing women clergy.

The day will come when Roman Catholics joins the Orthodox Church in allowing all priests to marry. Women priests will be the next change for them.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Perhaps, Jon. But I think many Lutherans and Anglicans see it differently. That we are paving the way for other Christians, including Catholics to embrace women clergy. I believe even the Missouri Synod will eventually allow female pastors as well as some of the more conservative Lutherans in eastern Europe, Africa, etc. The Anglican Communion is steadily moving in that direction and I believe many Protestant groups such as Methodist, Presbyterian, etc are also recognizing women clergy.

The day will come when Roman Catholics joins the Orthodox Church in allowing all priests to marry. Women priests will be the next change for them.

In my most charitable typing…EC you are so far off that it kind of makes me sad. Even if the Catholic Church ordained married priest, a female priesthood will NEVER happen. You can proclaim how great it is from every mountain top on earth, but that will never make it right.

If Anglican or Lutheran pastors started jumping off bridges, would you say that RC priest are soon to follow?

I take no issue with priest being allowed to marry. Many will decide not to do so because it is such a strain on time trying to do both.

Just because your Lutheran branch ordains women and open homosexuals does not make it right nor does it mean that the Church will soon follow suit. Please stop equating the two.

There…I’m done now lol

 

[EvangelCatholic]

In my most charitable typing…EC you are so far off that it kind of makes me sad. Even if the Catholic Church ordained married priest, a female priesthood will NEVER happen. You can proclaim how great it is from every mountain top on earth, but that will never make it right.

If Anglican or Lutheran pastors started jumping off bridges, would you say that RC priest are soon to follow?

I take no issue with priest being allowed to marry. Many will decide not to do so because it is such a strain on time trying to do both.

Just because your Lutheran branch ordains women and open homosexuals does not make it right nor does it mean that the Church will soon follow suit. Please stop equating the two.

There…I’m done now lol

No one knows the future, of-course. But many see changes taking place across Christendom and I believe that it is the Holy Spirit moving the Church. Married clergy is very likely in the RC church since it is already allowed in special circumstances.

I know several nuns and orders in the Catholic Church who pray fervently for female priests to be recognized. Change is coming.

 

[JonNC]

No one knows the future, of-course. But many see changes taking place across Christendom and I believe that it is the Holy Spirit moving the Church. Married clergy is very likely in the RC church since it is already allowed in special circumstances.

I know several nuns and orders in the Catholic Church who pray fervently for female priests to be recognized. Change is coming.

There is a huge difference between priestly celibacy (a discipline), and the ordination of males only.

Jon

 

[benjohnson]

Change is coming.

Change is coming, but rather than submit to what society demands, I’ll do my best to cling to what the Bible teaches.

Matthew 7:24-27

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.

 

[aidanbradypop]

No one knows the future, of-course. But many see changes taking place across Christendom and I believe that it is the Holy Spirit moving the Church. Married clergy is very likely in the RC church since it is already allowed in special circumstances.

I know several nuns and orders in the Catholic Church who pray fervently for female priests to be recognized. Change is coming.

Change is not coming. You can say that until you are blue in the face and yet it will not happen. Women have a major role in the Church but the priesthood is not one of them. If the RC ever ordained women, I would find an Orthodox parish to join. Why? If women were ever ordained, the Church would be going against Christ and no longer guided by the Holy Spirit. I would question everything the Church does after that. Gladly!!!..I will never have to do so.

But let us get back on topic.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

There is a huge difference between priestly celibacy (a discipline), and the ordination of males only.

Jon

I see your point but also see that the world is quite different compared to the early centuries AD. Women have much more status and rightful place in the Church. Catholic parishes have female eucharistic ministers. Some parishes are actually administered by nuns who also distribute the blessed sacrament. I look forward to the day when the LCMS finally accepts female priests and believe that day is not far off.

Can you handle these changes, Jon?

 

[benjohnson]

I look forward to the day when the LCMS finally accepts female priests and believe that day is not far off.

I certainly pray that the LMCS doesn’t follow the ELCA - The ELCA is rapidly declining, losing members by the million and churches by the thousand in the last few years.

In my opinion, In the quest for ‘outreach’ you church has forgotten it’s members in Christ.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I certainly pray that the LMCS doesn’t follow the ELCA - The ELCA is rapidly declining, losing members by the million and churches by the thousand in the last few years.

In my opinion, In the quest for ‘outreach’ you church has forgotten it’s members in Christ.

Really? Can you substantiate your claim?

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvangelCatholic
No one knows the future, of-course. But many see changes taking place across Christendom and I believe that it is the Holy Spirit moving the Church. Married clergy is very likely in the RC church since it is already allowed in special circumstances.

I know several nuns and orders in the Catholic Church who pray fervently for female priests to be recognized. Change is coming.

Married priests? Yes! Female priests? Well those liberal nuns can pray until the Final Judgment,but that will NEVER happen.

The Holy Spirit is not going to cause change in order to satisfy a few dissenters, which is called relativism which is common in many Protestant-evangelical circles.

 

[JonNC]

I see your point but also see that the world is quite different compared to the early centuries AD. Women have much more status and rightful place in the Church. Catholic parishes have female eucharistic ministers. Some parishes are actually administered by nuns who also distribute the blessed sacrament. I look forward to the day when the LCMS finally accepts female priests and believe that day is not far off.

Can you handle these changes, Jon?

Change always happens but our God and His word are constant.
If the LCMS moved to ordain women, I would seek out RCIA, or Orthodoxy.

Jon

 

[Nicea325]

Change always happens but our God and His word are constant.
If the LCMS moved to ordain women, I would seek out RCIA, or Orthodoxy.

Jon

Amen brother! Only God is constant. Female priests? A big noooooooooooo!

Why are people so pushy with the whole female priests agenda? And what good effects will that produce? I am sorry, but I just cannot picture a pregnant female priest giving Mass? :ehh:

 

[benjohnson]

Really? Can you substantiate your claim?

elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Three-Expressions/Churchwide-Organization/Communication-Services/News/Resources/Stats.aspx

As I’m reading it about - 1 million members lost, and 1 thousand conjugations lost in the last ten years.

There’s a steady drop of about .5- to 1% loss until about 2010 when it jumps to 5% losses.

Clearly, ELCA members are seeking higher ground in larger and larger numbers as the ELCA doctrine moves further away from the confessions and the bible.

 

[JonNC]

I see your point but also see that the world is quite different compared to the early centuries AD. Women have much more status and rightful place in the Church. Catholic parishes have female eucharistic ministers. Some parishes are actually administered by nuns who also distribute the blessed sacrament. I look forward to the day when the LCMS finally accepts female priests and believe that day is not far off.

Can you handle these changes, Jon?

Amen brother! Only God is constant. Female priests? A big noooooooooooo!

Why are people so pushy with the whole female priests agenda? And what good effects will that produce? I am sorry, but I just cannot picture a pregnant female priest giving Mass? :ehh:

Speculating, my friend, but I see a rather worthy goal of advancing equality of opportunity and rights being misapplied here. Equal is not always “the same”, and I think this is the basis of the movement.

Jon

 

[aidanbradypop]

EvangelCatholic…I have yet to find one place in Scripture or writings of the Early Church Fathers that speaks about a female priesthood. When God created the priesthood out of the tribe of Levi, only MALES were priest. When Christ picked his 12, once again we see all MALES. Even in the writings of the NT, we never hear of a female priest. Pagans had female priest and many of them.

In order to have valid Apostolic Succession, one needs to adhere by what Scripture teaches us and not what soceity deems “normal” and “just” so that we can please a few.