Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

[Dokimas]

So, it doesn’t seem obvious to you that Jesus gave His apostles the authority to forgive sins or to not forgive sins?

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

It’s NOT clear that any one church is in the line of the apostle and has been given the exclusibe responsibility to forgive sins.

Time to get on with my evening and be available to my wife. Take care Joe.

 

[david_ruiz]

But the Lord said that if we love Him, we will keep His commands. Just crying out, “Lord, Lord!” isn’t enough. (Right?) How, then, are we to know what it is that Jesus commands? For example, the Catholic Church says that it is against the command of Christ for a divorced person to remarry. Conversely, there are at least some Protestants who don’t have a problem with such remarriage. Obviously, both can’t be right. Who is right, and how do you know? Adulterers won’t inherit the Kingdom, after all; so who is right as to what constitutes adultery?

And please don’t get side-tracked into a discussion of marriage.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

Look ,your definition of “church” puts us in this predicament ,where we must agree on absolutely everything .This is unreal ,it did not even take place .in the book of Acts, nor down thru the ages. Should we be justifying an entire church per 1400 dogmas ? Maybe it is because we are trying to justify that it is the only "true " church also .What a burden. That we seek the Lord’s will on marriage /divorce, or how sins are forgiven, fine .But that we justify a particular "church "based on that is something else. I hopefully have described a methodology for understanding that is more “universal” , that all can “do” , no matter what church you are in. We can all seek the Lord on His scriptural ,historical insights.

 

[joe370]

I can’t speak to the issue of the Holy Spirit and the CC. IMO, the church Jesus founded is far bigger than the CC and would include many of the members of the CC.

I am sure the HS is present in the lives of Christians in every church regardless of denomination, but I was talking about the HS as an ever present guiding force in the church, regarding the preservation of doctrinal truth. Clearly the HS does not guide each church to truth, doctrinally speaking. Either the HS continues to guide the CC to truth or the HS does not. Yes, no, maybe?

 

[joe370]

It’s NOT clear that any one church is in the line of the apostle and has been given the exclusibe responsibility to forgive sins.

Time to get on with my evening and be available to my wife. Take care Joe.

You too brother; have a nice evening.

 

[david_ruiz]

The Eucharist is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. We are absolved of ordinary sins at Mass.

But when we commit mortal sin, the sacramental bond we have with Christ is broken. It is restored only through the sacrament of confession to be able to worthily partake in the Sacred Eucharist.

The greatest presence of power in the world is the Divine Presence of the Lord in the Tabernacle.

For the Protestants who continue to doubt, I challenge you to enter into a Catholic Church and sit an hour at a time in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament for Him to answer what we cannot.

Ah, but I can not ,for that is old wine ,and I have been made a new skin.But I love your heart ,and I pretty much said the same thing ,to take it to Lord and sincerely ask Him …May I kindly say our methods to that end are different .Yours you need a priest , for the Divine Presence, also a Mass. Mine is simpler and more universal. You can do it anywhere, anytime. But yes , it is Him isn’t it , that we should seek, our sure foundation. Alleluia.

 

[david_ruiz]

Again, that’s not quite accurate. Belief is not what causes a person to become born again. Baptism is. Acts 2:37-38, Acts 22:16, Rom 6:4, 1Pet 3:21, Heb 10:22. Thus the unfortunately many Protestant churches which do not baptize or have modified the baptismal formula from what Jesus described in the Great Commission are not part of the Church, although they can still be saved at the discretion of Jesus Christ, the only Judge.

I was trying to be “universal” and say just those that are born again enter the church .I guess it’s ok to scrutinize the “method”. You graciously list many proof texts ,but it is quite clear others suggest that baptism is indeed a holy formality .The first gentiles saved spoke in tongues and everything BEFORE baptism , before Peter’s eyes. The thief on the cross etc …But the church has this all covered I know , and you kindly allude to some “escape” clauses. I was born again way before I was baptized (as it was in the early church - people came to believe - saving faith , which you can not have without new birth - what , is it the old man that believes ? Then they were catechized , already believing ,THEN they were baptized ) .You can not so easily separate faith from baptism .Too many scriptures talk of saving faith. Jesus himself likened new birth as like the wind …Shall we put Him in the box ? Fine ,then you stop the wind (Holy Spirit) ,and you end up with possibly mere formality , as circumcision showed could be in the old covenant. The main thing is to be baptized in the Holy ghost ,as scripture tells us.

 

[david_ruiz]

I’m not sure what the pope has to do with what I asked. They would of had no clue what sola scriptura was, and not one protestant was to be found either. all Christians, regardless of denomination, to know the truth regarding His teachi

Hope you don’t mind me asking again: So Jesus did not leave the world with a way forngs, such as confession?

 

[david_ruiz]

So, according to you, members of the universal church are not of one accord (Acts 1:14) and of one mind (Philipians 2:2) … they hold contradictory views and quarrel over doctrine … and that is just fine?

placido

We are of one accord,in spirit ,but you want it every where else to ,as to when and how to genuflect ,and this and that etc. What is that to you if a brother gets fully immersed or only sprinkled in baptism ? I told you my “denomination” is quite settled with its doctrine. You look at all the others and say see how they bicker .Well if I do the same ,you are also in with the others who bicker -you and the orthodox and those other protestants. It is a terrible burden to be told you are the only true church from the beginning and the rest of us are just renegade offshoots .But you are partly correct ,many are offshoots from Catholicism , but not all , and from my point of view you are also offshoots but not from the beginning .I know you’d like me to say you were , but at least I say you carried a big chunk of church history and some of it very positively…You are right to look at fruits unity being one of them .We are at least unified in that we are “protestant”. Furthermore ,there other fruits besides unity ,and the Catholic Church has been wanting also.

 

[david_ruiz]

Fair enough.

Let’s take the simple matter of John 20. I interpret it the Catholic way and I believe God has guided me in that interpretation.

You say the contrary.

How do we know which one of us is right?

Thank-you for the fair enough.Do we have to settle this now ? Apparently we are both satisfied with the results, or lack of them. Is this what Jesus meant by leaving the wheat with the weeds, that “we are hid with Christ in God , but we shall appear with Him in Glory”. Indeed , if one doesn’t taste the down payment of the answer here and now ,the time will come when all things hidden shall be revealed…There is something to imperfection, some redeeming grace, even in His church ,and His members .I understand families with a disabled or handicapped persons ,suffer from it , but gain so much more, in learning really what it is to love and sacrifice for one another . I wonder if that is why the Lord allows such things as Anglicans, and Presbyterians, and Lutherans, and Catholics etc. ? Oh Lord help us , which one of us is right ?

 

[joe370]

joe370;7443608:

I’m not sure what the pope has to do with what I asked. They would of had no clue what sola scriptura was, and not one protestant was to be found either. all Christians, regardless of denomination, to know the truth regarding His teachi I thought I answered already.You say church ,I say Himself,above all else.

I don’t say Jesus??? You sure about that friend? I say it is Jesus, from His heavenly Home, Who guides His church to all truth, regardless of the time period; it’s His church according to Matthew 16, and no one has the right to start another church and call it the church founded by Jesus, in my opinion. Could I be wrong; I’ve been wrong before; your thoughts?

For you, His one church, which is forever guided by the HS, is comprised of all denominations, (even those yet to exist, but will one day; new one popping up in my city very soon) - and for me it is the CC that is the church of Matthew 16, that is forever guided by the HS to all truth, regardless of the time period, never to impugn those wonderful non-Catholic churches, mind you. I just don’t see how the Holy Spirit can be responsible for all the conflicting truths out there in the various churches, established by men, as opposed to Jesus, (including the CC if you can prove that Jesus is not the founder of that church). You can???

 

[Cat_Herder]

Thank-you for the fair enough.Do we have to settle this now ? Apparently we are both satisfied with the results, or lack of them. Is this what Jesus meant by leaving the wheat with the weeds, that “we are hid with Christ in God , but we shall appear with Him in Glory”. Indeed , if one doesn’t taste the down payment of the answer here and now ,the time will come when all things hidden shall be revealed ?

This is not biblical.

[BIBLEDRB]Jn 10:16[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Eph 4:3-6 [/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 16:17[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 1:10[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Phil 2:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 15:5[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Jn 17:17-23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Jn 17:23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 12:13[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 12:5[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Eph 4:4[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Col 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mt 16:18-19[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mt 18:17[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;7446185:

I don’t say Jesus??? You sure about that friend?

No ,but is He above all else ?

I say it is Jesus, from His heavenly Home,

Yes ,He is up there ,hence He needs someone down here to be His vicar ? He is everywhere, even where two or three are gathered , there He is in the midst of them, down here on planet earth.

(Jesus)Who guides His church to all truth, regardless of the time period

;So true,just like in revelations and the seven churches.

it’s His church according to Matthew 16,

Then why do you act like it 's yours exclusively ?

No one has the right to start another church and call it the church founded by Jesus, in my opinion.

That is what the apostles thought when "other "disciples were operating in the same neighborhood, like how dare they . Jesus rebuked them .But, but, but, they were not operating under Peter ? They were for Jesus, not against .Many outside of Catholicism are primarily for Jesus , and they happen to be secondarily Lutheran or Baptist or Orthodox etc…No one else is calling themselves Catholic (Roman ) . Several popes in the 1800’s condemned freedom of conscience, even liberty of worship, religion ( Leo xii, Pius viii, Pius xix).They apparently thought no one has the right to start a church and say it was Christ’s etc.

For you, His one church, which is forever guided by the HS, is comprised of all denominations,

Never said that .You assume that cause that is you paradigm -“church” .I believe I said the church is made of born again souls PRIMARILY ,and they secondarily may be from many denominations ,including Catholicism.I did not say all denominations compromise his church .His church has no denominations or names like Orthodox,Catholic,Protestant.You don’t find those names in scriptures , and you won’t find them in Heaven .Oh they tried , to say, I am of Peter or I am of Paul , but were promptly rebuked

I just don’t see how the Holy Spirit can be responsible for all the conflicting truths out there in the various churches,

I understand , for it is a negative as you framed it , and has become a stumbling block for many. Jesus dying was seen as a negative, and a stumbling block for many also.

 

[david_ruiz]

This is not biblical.

[BIBLEDRB]Jn 10:16[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Eph 4:3-6 [/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 16:17[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 1:10[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Phil 2:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 15:5[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Jn 17:17-23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Jn 17:23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 12:13[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 12:5[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Eph 4:4[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Col 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mt 16:18-19[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mt 18:17[/BIBLEDRB]

Nice scriptures . Whom do they apply to ? Where is the wheat and tares one ? I see you building yourself a nice wall of truth with those scriptures ,separating yourself from all the other falsely started churches. It’s ok , I am very militant with my view also .ALL those scriptures fit “my” definition of “church” also. Yours is exclusive. Mine is universal-catholic-it may include you and me EQUALLY! Just gotta be born again to live for His purposes.Alleluia

 

[Cat_Herder]

Nice scriptures . Whom do they apply to ? Where is the wheat and tares one ? I see you building yourself a nice wall of truth with those scriptures ,separating yourself from all the other falsely started churches.

Scripture’s the best thing to build a wall out of. But the wall is meant to exclude satan, not you.

It’s ok , I am very militant with my view also .ALL those scriptures fit “my” definition of “church” also.

The only way that you can make those Scriptures work with your view is if you redefine the Church to be something less than all baptized Christians; that is, you must make some of the Christians unsaved “tares” as you are trying to do. But since the Church began as nothing more than a bunch of baptized Christians, you would then have to posit a “great apostasy” of some kind, at which point some baptized Christians (which to you would be Catholics) became “tares.” However, those Scriptures, along with Christ’s promise that none of His Word would pass away until the end of time, prevent you from doing this.

I know this from experience: to win, you must first lose.

 

[david_ruiz]

Scripture’s the best thing to build a wall out of. But the wall is meant to exclude satan, not you.

The only way that you can make those Scriptures work with your view is if you redefine the Church to be something less than all baptized Christians. Since the Church began as baptized Christians you would then have to posit a “great apostasy” of some kind, which those Scriptures, along with Christ’s promise that none of His Word would pass away until the end of time, prevent you from doing.

I know this from experience: to win, you must first lose.

My key term is equal, for you know I being a fallen Catholic ,and others outside Catholicism ,are NOT equal in the fullness of His way according to Catholic teaching. Tell me, are you saying all baptized Christians then primarily compromise His church , regardless of their secondary standing in a denomination, equally ?

 

[Cat_Herder]

My key term is equal, for you know I being a fallen Catholic ,and others outside Catholicism ,are NOT equal in the fullness of His way according to Catholic teaching. Tell me, are you saying all baptized Christians then primarily compromise His church , regardless of their secondary standing in a denomination, equally ?

Looks like we’ve got ourselves another ex-Catholic who lapsed because (s)he didn’t know what the Church actually taught. Lumen Gentium:

1. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

 

[PRmerger]

My key term is equal, for you know I being a fallen Catholic ,and others outside Catholicism ,are NOT equal in the fullness of His way according to Catholic teaching.

What does that mean–not “equal in the fullness of His way”?

 

[david_ruiz]

Scripture’s the best thing to build a wall out of. But the wall is meant to exclude satan, not you.

The only way that you can make those Scriptures work with your view is if you redefine the Church to be something less than all baptized Christians; that is, you must make some of the Christians unsaved “tares” as you are trying to do. But since the Church began as nothing more than a bunch of baptized Christians, you would then have to posit a “great apostasy” of some kind, at which point some baptized Christians (which to you would be Catholics) became “tares.” However, those Scriptures, along with Christ’s promise that none of His Word would pass away until the end of time, prevent you from doing this.

I know this from experience: to win, you must first lose.

I am thinking more deeply .cause i think you went beyond my intentions .I am not thinking great apostasy .Just simple fact that to us down here there is a visible church of born again believers (you say baptized -ok) yet for some we do not know fully who really are His ,to the end. So you are astute that indeed some Christians may not really be Christians ,hence they are tares. Apostasy may have a part , but I believe it is more not having a real experience in Christ , not really being born again .This is just like in Jesus’s day there were Jews ,and then there were spiritual Jews-you could not tell by “circumcision” ,just like today ,you can not always tell just by “baptism” or being in a church etc…I am also not saying Catholics are the tares. If saved souls are in all Christian denominations ,including Catholic ,then tares are also in all same churches.

 

[david_ruiz]

What does that mean–not “equal in the fullness of His way”?

Sorry it is a Catholic term used to describe the differences in souls sailing on the Mother ship Catolica and the dingy’s of Protestante,something with the idea that the dingies are not in fullness of faith or something ,but still we(non-Catholics) have something ,just not as much as Catholics.The ship stuff is not in the catechism ,the other stuff is.

 

[PRmerger]

I This is just like in Jesus’s day there were Jews ,and then there were spiritual Jews-you could not tell by “circumcision” ,just like today ,you can not always tell just by “baptism” or being in a church etc…I am also not saying Catholics are the tares. If saved souls are in all Christian denominations ,including Catholic ,then tares are also in all same churches.

Catholics are not in the business of “telling” who’s saved and who’s not. God is not a statistician who provides us with the demographics of heaven (or, indeed, of hell).

He simply says, “Strive to enter.”

(Now, to be sure, it’s been revealed that there are certain souls in heaven, called saints, but the specific demographics of heaven are not for us to know.)