Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

[david_ruiz]

David…Look up Luke 13:3…‘do penance least you likewise shall perish’…

Thanks .What does that mean ? How did the Galileans do “penance” ?

 

[david_ruiz]

I hope it is clear that we are not speaking from the scriptures of entering the kingdom of God, where there is no confession required, nor an altar call, Just baptism John 3:3-5

We are discussing for those who are already in the Kingdom of God, Who are working out their salvation with fear and trembling"(see philippians 2:12), who may have fallen into mortal sin. How does your faith community adminster the ministry of reconciliation of forgiving and retaining sins to this soul in a state of mortal sin?

Here is what Catholics believe in the forgiving and retaining of sin; Do you follow the following scripture? if so when and how?

**1John 1:8
If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us.
9
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
10
If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. **

More time later ,but how did King David “repent” ? I mean you tell me O.T. is a foreshadow , a better foreshadow of things to come. How can we repent better than David , as far as “methodology” ?

 

[Bill_Pick]

How do you explain John 20:21-23? Also Matthew 9:2-8?[/QUO*f He tell the truth He can.t

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;7250828:

.How does that lead to confessional ?

David,

Maybe start with sin…what is sin? what are its effects?
Sin is “missing the mark”, with God as the standard, for behaviour , attitude, emotion,etc…
What is not of faith is also sin. Effects are death , to spiritual life and eventually physical life and separation from God. There can be sins of commission and of omission.

 

[pablope]

More time later ,but how did King David “repent” ? I mean you tell me O.T. is a foreshadow , a better foreshadow of things to come. How can we repent better than David , as far as “methodology” ?

The prophet Nathan came to King David, and confronted him. David also composed Psalm 51 as part of his penance and repentance. It is also known as the Miserere.

 

[smile791]

I just heard a priest on EWTN.com television say that he can hear the confession of any baptized Christian with a legitimate baptism. I wonder if that meant he could also absolve the sins of any baptized Christian. That would probably be a good question for another forum.

 

[david_ruiz]

I hope it is clear that we are not speaking from the scriptures of entering the kingdom of God, where there is no confession required, nor an altar call, Just baptism John 3:3-5

We are discussing for those who are already in the Kingdom of God, Who are working out their salvation with fear and trembling"(see philippians 2:12), who may have fallen into mortal sin. How does your faith community adminster the ministry of reconciliation of forgiving and retaining sins to this soul in a state of mortal sin?

Here is what Catholics believe in the forgiving and retaining of sin; Do you follow the following scripture? if so when and how?

**1John 1:8
If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us.
9
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
10
If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. **

Great scriptures .I agree with Paul that scripture is perfect for teaching and equipping (Timothy). Verse 7 " We have fellowship one with another , and walk in the light , and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin". When I was saved (justified), I fellowshipped , walked in light , but still smoked .Eventually, the fellowship and light helped grace win out and I stopped smoking , being further sanctified. So far no confessional, just admitting smoking was wrong to God and my brothers and they vice-versa ,in truth and love. Verse 8- deals with sin nature -the gnostics said moral conduct was irrelevant to being enlightened-this would be said of someone not saved ( I am not a sinner). Verse 9 acknowledge sin , not just in nature but in specific (I smoke , and it is wrong) and to also forsake it. The confession is to God , for he forgives us and cleanses us (I was set free from smoking, not just forgiven). Scripture here does not say confess to a presbyter and he is faithful to forgive , nor does he say God forgives thru the presbyter. It would have been a perfect time , but John does not. The acknowledgement is before God foremost.That is not to say man will not hear it also , for we are to testify of all truth. I believe a genuine Christian will be transparent , confessing his faults to God and one another , for forgiveness , and prayer , and will do restitution when needed. I believe it is very straightforward , confess to God and “one another” and He (God ) forgives faithfully…John was faithful in giving the conditions for forgiving and retaining sins. Walk in the light, acknowledge your sin and God forgives .Say you are without sin ,and your sin nature and sins are retained. John does not personally do it here, but with full authority gives the conditions for forgiveness and retention, When someone acknowledges publicly or privately to another believer that he is a sinner , and believes in Christs atonement, either for the first time ,or over a specific sin when already a Christian, it can be said “Your sin(s) are forgiven”. I believe when one publicly or privately says he has not sinned or is a sinner, a believer could say to him, "Your sins are retained "

 

[BlueShadow123]

If you are really interested in getting to the root of the Sacrament of Confession, I recommend Scott Hahn’s “Lord Have Mercy”…it traces the roots of confession and penance from the Garden of Eden…in the OT to the fulfillment in the NT. I read the book several months ago…it opened my eyes immensely to our human frailties…even though I have been a lifelong Catholic…and I think you will benefit from it immensely…even on the spiritual side.

Thats not the point. The bible clearly says that god is able to forgive us of our sins. why would I go to a priest and ask him for forgiveness if I can simply ask God?
I am NOT saying that priests cannot forgive, I’m simply saying why should I go to one INSTEAD of god?

 

[david_ruiz]

Yes, it was done before the assembly at first. After which the priest absolved and announced the forgiveness of the sins.

So what if there was no box? The question is whether there was auricular confession and absolution going on, not where it was done.

Fair enough I would not use the term priest in these early stages.I have heard there were “presidents” at first. (to preside over “gathering” or service" ) .If they met in secret and in homes , I do not believe there would be enough presbyters to go around. I do agree they would have to be upright and have a gifting for “presiding”. One must also ask who and what and when was there a “confession” . Was it for absolutely for everyone and for every sin ? I just do not see it as today .That is important then, that things evolved , because to me now many types and practices or lack of them may be legitimate and indeed have some basis to apostolic times. I still would prefer to benchmark the earliest church, preferably when apostles were still around. That may seem boxy also, but don’t we all like to be “apostolic” ?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

First of all david, smoking is not a mortal sin. What you are dealing with is discipline issue not a sin.

When you were saved, what were you saved from? Are you saying you don’t sin or are without sin? after being saved? Can one fall into mortal sin after being saved?

Can you explain how the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin? I would really like to know details how your faith community practices and believes how Jesus cleanses you from your sins with his blood? Can you give an example how Jesus does this marvelous act?

Do you know of any Christian from anitquity or from the protestant reformation that believes as you do about confession of sins not needed? I know Luther denied “absolution” but he still practiced confession of sins.

Your interpretation of the scriptures is new, can you show me where you got this teaching that no one needs to confess to a priest to be absolved from his/her mortal sins? is your teaching of denying confession of sins in the bible? as you profess it here?

=david ruiz;7257689]Great scriptures .I agree with Paul that scripture is perfect for teaching and equipping (Timothy). Verse 7 " We have fellowship one with another , and walk in the light , and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin". When I was saved (justified), I fellowshipped , walked in light , but still smoked .Eventually, the fellowship and light helped grace win out and I stopped smoking , being further sanctified. So far no confessional, just admitting smoking was wrong to God and my brothers and they vice-versa ,in truth and love. Verse 8- deals with sin nature -the gnostics said moral conduct was irrelevant to being enlightened-this would be said of someone not saved ( I am not a sinner). Verse 9 acknowledge sin , not just in nature but in specific (I smoke , and it is wrong) and to also forsake it. The confession is to God , for he forgives us and cleanses us (I was set free from smoking, not just forgiven). Scripture here does not say confess to a presbyter and he is faithful to forgive , nor does he say God forgives thru the presbyter. It would have been a perfect time , but John does not. The acknowledgement is before God foremost.That is not to say man will not hear it also , for we are to testify of all truth. I believe a genuine Christian will be transparent , confessing his faults to God and one another , for forgiveness , and prayer , and will do restitution when needed. I believe it is very straightforward , confess to God and “one another” and He (God ) forgives faithfully…John was faithful in giving the conditions for forgiving and retaining sins. Walk in the light, acknowledge your sin and God forgives .Say you are without sin ,and your sin nature and sins are retained. John does not personally do it here, but with full authority gives the conditions for forgiveness and retention, When someone acknowledges publicly or privately to another believer that he is a sinner , and believes in Christs atonement, either for the first time ,or over a specific sin when already a Christian, it can be said “Your sin(s) are forgiven”. I believe when one publicly or privately says he has not sinned or is a sinner, a believer could say to him, "Your sins are retained "

 

[pablope]

pablope;7252004:

Sin is “missing the mark”, with God as the standard, for behaviour , attitude, emotion,etc…
What is not of faith is also sin. Effects are death , to spiritual life and eventually physical life and separation from God. There can be sins of commission and of omission.

Good…I will add a little bit more…

Our sins also offend and hurt God, and continue to do so if we sinners continue to commit sin. Sin not only separates us from God, it also separates the sinner from His Body, the Church…and in essence we lose our salvation for to die in sin will not get one to heaven…so in order to regain God’s love and saving grace, and to reconnect with his Church…we have to ask God’s forgiveness…and do the necessary penance, including expiation of our sins…and so this is where the need for confession comes in…but this confession has to be from the heart, sincere and there is a genuine desire to change and mend one’s way.

Matthew 7:21 (New American Standard Bible)

21"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

 

[pablope]

Thats not the point. The bible clearly says that god is able to forgive us of our sins. why would I go to a priest and ask him for forgiveness if I can simply ask God?
I am NOT saying that priests cannot forgive, I’m simply saying why should I go to one INSTEAD of god?

*simply saying why should I go to one INSTEAD of god?/I

It is explained in the book.*

 

[Richard_Kastner]

david ruiz;7257397:

Good…I will add a little bit more…

Our sins also offend and hurt God, and continue to do so if we sinners continue to commit sin. Sin not only separates us from God, it also separates the sinner from His Body, the Church…

So there are no sinners in the church?
Rom.3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

and in essence we lose our salvation for to die in sin will not get one to heaven…so in order to regain God’s love and saving grace, and to reconnect with his Church…we have to ask God’s forgiveness…and do the necessary penance, including expiation of our sins…and so this is where the need for confession comes in…but this confession has to be from the heart, sincere and there is a genuine desire to change and mend one’s way.

We need to confess our sins to God.

Luke 18:13
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

As for the penance, that was taken care of by Jesus on the cross.

 

[pablope]

pablope;7257857:

So there are no sinners in the church?
Rom.3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We need to confess our sins to God.

Luke 18:13
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

As for the penance, that was taken care of by Jesus on the cross.

So there are no sinners in the church?
Who ever gave you this idea? We are all sinners and struggle to daily to not sin.

As for the penance, that was taken care of by Jesus on the crossCleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts,

ye double minded.
9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: **let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. ** 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Luke 19: 1-10, but will only show verse 8 for this purpose:
8Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much.”
**
In repenting for his past, did Jesus say to Zaccheus, “NO” you need not make amends to the poor and those you defrauded?**

 

[KathleenGee]

When Catholics go to confession, we are going to Jesus Christ to confess our sins, present in His minister, the priest.

One of the reasons we need Christ is that we are sinners.

 

[jphilapy]

As many ways as you want to give it.
James 5:15-16 says,“And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” Here I see that we should confess our sins to each other what I don’t see is the words to a priest..

The context is clear that it is not suggesting you confess your sins to just anyone. It says call the elders and refers to the prayer of the righteous. So the person you are confessing your sin to in this passage would be an elder, and hopefully a righteous one.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

notice v 15 in your quote: “if he has sinned, he will be forgiven.” This is obviously in direct reference to you calling an elder. Then in v. 16 “Therefore confess your sins”. To who? The elder.

So that would exclude the argument of one another to mean anyone in this context.

 

[Bill_Pick]

The context is clear that it is not suggesting you confess your sins to just anyone. It says call the elders and refers to the prayer of the righteous. So the person you are confessing your sin to in this passage would be an elder, and hopefully a righteous one.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

notice v 15 in your quote: “if he has sinned, he will be forgiven.” This is obviously in direct reference to you calling an elder. Then in v. 16 “Therefore confess your sins”. To who? The elder.

So that would exclude the argument of one another to mean anyone in this context.

Yes the priest has the authority from God to forgive sin

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard Kastner;7257891:

So there are no sinners in the church?

Who ever gave you this idea? We are all sinners and struggle to daily to not sin.

Well, actually you did. You said

Our sins also offend and hurt God, and continue to do so if we sinners continue to commit sin. Sin not only separates us from God, it also separates the sinner from His Body, the Church…

How could our sins seperate us from the body of Christ, the church, unless the body of Christ was sinlesss?

As for the penance, that was taken care of by Jesus on the cross

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: **let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. ** 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Let me ask you, do you think that the vs. you gave here are talking about penance? IOW do you think that if you “**Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, **” you are doing penance?
That if you “**let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.” ** or if you “Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord” you are doing penance?

Luke 19: 1-10, but will only show verse 8 for this purpose:
8Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much.”
**
In repenting for his past, did Jesus say to Zaccheus, “NO” you need not make amends to the poor and those you defrauded?**

So, you think that Zacheus, by giving back what he had stolen, was doing penance?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

When Catholics go to confession, we are going to Jesus Christ to confess our sins, present in His minister, the priest.

One of the reasons we need Christ is that we are sinners.

Are you saying the priest is Jesus?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Are you saying the priest is Jesus?

The priest stands in the person of Christ.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Cor 2:10[/BIBLEDRB]