Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

[joandarc2008]

Well I’m glad to see there will be a change In 2011 to correct a mistake that has been going on for a long time.

Well your understanding is not correct. Yes I am a Baptist but I was not ordained a Baptist minister and I am not a Baptist minister. I am a Independent Minister. (Independent minister Catholic turned Baptist)

Actually not all that long - only since VII when we allowed for the prayers to be translated from the Latin to the local vernacular. It was Pope John Paul II that in his travels realized that the vernacular was not matching up. So now the translations are being fixed. But when your Church is 2000 years old - 50 year isn’t that long.

Yeah know - something you might to consider - when you take parts of different religions - and make up your own - you are no longer following the Gospel of Christ - you are the following the Gospel of you.

 

[rev_kevin]

Are you sure you were a Catholic? You should know that mortal sins are forgiven thousands of times a day by the Church. We are not talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, just mortal sins - please refer to 1 John for clarification here.

Positive, Born and raised Catholic. Went through all the Sacraments, was a altar boy, went to Catholic school so yes I’m sure I was Catholic or were they lying to me?

How can the Church forgive sins? Which is it the priest, the church, Jesus or God?

Why does he say that he should not pray about sins that lead to death? Shouldn’t we pray for sin that leads to death instead of ignoring it?

It also says that “this is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will. he hears us. And if we know he hears us–whatever we ask–we know that we have what we asked of him.”
So if I ask Jesus to ask God to forgive my sins, I’m positive God hears that so I’m positive God will forgive my sins because I went through Jesus our mediator to God.
But isn’t blasphemy a mortal sin and we are talking about mortal sin that leads to death or sin that can not be forgiven ie blasphemy.

 

[joandarc2008]

How can the Church forgive sins? Which is it the priest, the church, Jesus or God?

It appears you left without ever beginning to understanding the basics. It is not the Church that forgives sins. It is Christ - the priest acts in persono Christi just as Christ gave them the ability to do in Acts when he gave the disciples the ability to do this and it was passed down through Apostolic Succession.

 

[rev_kevin]

Actually not all that long - only since VII when we allowed for the prayers to be translated from the Latin to the local vernacular. It was Pope John Paul II that in his travels realized that the vernacular was not matching up. So now the translations are being fixed. But when your Church is 2000 years old - 50 year isn’t that long.

Yeah know - something you might to consider - when you take parts of different religions - and make up your own - you are no longer following the Gospel of Christ - you are the following the Gospel of you.

See I do services at nursing homes where there are all different religions there. So I try to accomedate all the different religions. That is why I am a Independent minister so I’m not following the Gospel of me as you claim. Try to seek to understand before you make comment on me.

But its long enough for a Church that claims it can’t make mistakes when it comes to religious things.

 

[joandarc2008]

See I do services at nursing homes where there are all different religions there. So I try to accomedate all the different religions. That is why I am a Independent minister so I’m not following the Gospel of me as you claim. Try to seek to understand before you make comment on me.

But its long enough for a Church that claims it can’t make mistakes when it comes to religious things.

Sounds like moral relativism to me. I also go to the nursing home - so does every other Church in the neighborhood. They administer to their own flocks. So basically you minister to the flock that wants to make their own Gospel. And yes you rejected Catholicism - you have no ordination as a Baptist minister, but yet you have the urge to be a minister somewhere even though you have found no Church yourself. That is the very basis of invalid ordination that Guanaphore started mentioning at the beginning.

 

[rev_kevin]

It appears you left without ever beginning to understanding the basics. It is not the Church that forgives sins. It is Christ - the priest acts in persono Christi just as Christ gave them the ability to do in Acts when he gave the disciples the ability to do this and it was passed down through Apostolic Succession.

But that is not what you said, you said, “You should know that mortal sins are forgiven thousands of times a day by the church.” So what part did I get wrong? You said "by the church’ your words not mine, then you say that “It is not the Church that forgives sins.” When trying to explain something to someone you need to clearify what you mean. See when you say the Church forgives sins one would take it that the Church forgives sins, then when questioned you say, I appears you left without ever beginning to understanding the basics. Its Christ that forgives sins. See where one could be confused by your wording.
Now why would we need a priest to ACT in persono Christi? Does Christ need a Actor to do his work? Isn’t Christ able to do this without a priest?
See its not that I don’t understand the Catholic faith, I question some of the logic of the CC.

 

[rev_kevin]

Sounds like moral relativism to me. I also go to the nursing home - so does every other Church in the neighborhood. They administer to their own flocks. So basically you minister to the flock that wants to make their own Gospel. And yes you rejected Catholicism - you have no ordination as a Baptist minister, but yet you have the urge to be a minister somewhere even though you have found no Church yourself. That is the very basis of invalid ordination that Guanaphore started mentioning at the beginning.

Well I’m glad that you go to nursing homes and that every other church does and that they administer to their own flocks. But that is not the case here I am the only minister that goes to these nursing homes. No priest goes, no Methodist minister goes, no other minister goes. So I go and if you want to belittle my flock and the wonderful people in it then do so. You are incorrect I have found a church it the Baptist. But just because I’m a Baptist that don’t mean I have to be a Baptist minister. Once again you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me. So with that said our discussion is over. Have a good day.

 

[joandarc2008]

Well I’m glad that you go to nursing homes and that every other church does and that they administer to their own flocks. But that is not the case here I am the only minister that goes to these nursing homes. No priest goes, no Methodist minister goes, no other minister goes. So I go and if you want to belittle my flock and the wonderful people in it then do so. You are incorrect I have found a church it the Baptist. But just because I’m a Baptist that don’t mean I have to be a Baptist minister. Once again you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me. So with that said our discussion is over. Have a good day.

Then please explain to me why the Baptist Church would not give you valid ordination in their own Church or why you would not take ordination in their own Church? I am far from understanding. Are you honestly telling me that there is a nursing home out there where the patients are not receiving Eucharist - I find that very hard to believe. As a matter of fact - I doubt what you are saying. I bet you if you were to call the diocese you would find that there is a parish taking care of it - you are just not aware of it because it is not made known to you.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

Try to seek to understand before you make comment on me.

I’m sorry, but that’s rather hypocritical of you. You’re complaining about our assuming things and not understanding, but you’re doing exactly the same thing regarding the Church.

But its long enough for a Church that claims it can’t make mistakes when it comes to religious things.

Please explain what heresy is being promoted by “I am not worthy to receive you,” instead of, “I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof.” Or how exactly an earlier dogmatic teaching is contradicted. Provide citations. Unless you really haven’t sought understanding on this matter before you made your comment? I would hate to think that you’re just making assumptions.

You said "by the church’ your words not mine, then you say that “It is not the Church that forgives sins.” When trying to explain something to someone you need to clearify what you mean. See when you say the Church forgives sins one would take it that the Church forgives sins, then when questioned you say, I appears you left without ever beginning to understanding the basics. Its Christ that forgives sins. See where one could be confused by your wording.
Now why would we need a priest to ACT in persono Christi? Does Christ need a Actor to do his work? Isn’t Christ able to do this without a priest?
See its not that I don’t understand the Catholic faith, I question some of the logic of the CC.

The Church is the Body of Christ, doing His works here on Earth. Christ gave His Church the authority to forgive sins in His name. So, while it is true that the Church, or any of its members, can do nothing apart from Jesus, He gave His authority to the Apostles, who in turn handed it on, and so on until today. Therefore, it is Jesus (who is God) working through the priest to forgive our sins, and the priests are a part of the Church.

And, no, Christ doesn’t necessarily need a stand-in, but He has chosen to effect forgiveness through His ordained priests. And I, for one, do not see fit to question my Lord in such matters.

But just because I’m a Baptist that don’t mean I have to be a Baptist minister. Once again you make assumptions about me without knowing anything about me.

But it’s a fairly logical assumption that a Baptist who is a minister would be a Baptist minister. And, really, that’s the only thing that makes sense. If you’re a Baptist, why would you work as a minister in some other denomination? And if you are a minister for another group, why do you not become a member of said group? That strikes me as somehow dishonest. (And no, I did not just call you dishonest.)

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[BlueShadow123]

Even if a priest could forgive sins, why would somebody bother going to one when they can just pray to jesus about it?
You wouldn’t even have to leave your home to pray about it. You can do it at anytime.

 

[david_ruiz]

=

pablope;7257404]The prophet Nathan came to King David, and confronted him. David also composed Psalm 51 as part of his penance and repentance. It is also known as the Miserere.

This still leaves us with two ways of forgiving retaining sin .I mentioned either we need great insight into a man’s heart ,or it is conditional ,that is forgiveness comes thru faith in Christ , and his atoning work. Indeed , Nathan was given insight by God , as Peter was with Ananias .I do not see this kind of "insight’ in the confessional, rather Christ’s atoning work gives foundation both your view and my view of how sins are forgiven or retained. Did David “confess” to Nathan , or did he acknowledge his sin to God and Nathan ?
God had given Nathan prophetic knowledge of forgiveness, and future consequences.This was prophetic , not priestly. We can be prophetic today and say , “if you die with sin ,it shall have to be accounted for ,and without the blood of Christ there is no atonement.” .God has told us this .It is the Gospel , His teachings that we share with the world ,making disciples of all men , baptizing them in the name of the Father ,the Son and the Holy Ghost etc.,giving conditions for the remission of sins… As far as David doing “penance” -an act of sorrow /repentance of sin -yes, Psalm 51 is fantastic…It is funny , but you see foundation for your sacrament of Penance here and I see my “new” view of conditions for forgiveness .Notice David says nothing of confessing to man , nor doing penance . Just the opposite , he acknowledges his sin before God, that God desires no sacrificial penance , except a broken and contrite heart ! "Thou desirest not sacrifice,nor burnt offerings,…but a broken and contrite heart " God would cleanse him , and restore fellowship , on the basis of His(God’s) character , not on anything David could do , except be broken , and poor in spirit , having nothing in himself to offer. Let God restore , even build the walls of Jerusalem (Psalm 51:18) - protection from condemnation. If we do anything good for God , let it not be penance but because He has “built” us to praise Him. That is Psalm 51. I acknowledge your gleaning from this psalm, may you see mine.

 

[david_ruiz]

First of all david, smoking is not a mortal sin. What you are dealing with is discipline issue not a sin.

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;7257397:

Good…I will add a little bit more…

Our sins also offend and hurt God, and continue to do so if we sinners continue to commit sin. Sin not only separates us from God, it also separates the sinner from His Body, the Church…and in essence we lose our salvation for to die in sin will not get one to heaven…so in order to regain God’s love and saving grace, and to reconnect with his Church…we have to ask God’s forgiveness…and do the necessary penance, including expiation of our sins…and so this is where the need for confession comes in…but this confession has to be from the heart, sincere and there is a genuine desire to change and mend one’s way.

Matthew 7:21 (New American Standard Bible)

21"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Thank-you but you add to much more ,as has been pointed out by others. I guess some call your sacraments a type of religious work (how dare Luther inject that word alone to faith). You say one must regain God’s love .I was told God loved me while I was still a sinner .Does He love me more after I am saved ? Does He love me less when I sin venially or mortally ? Don’t you get it ,He loves us because of what Jesus did , not because of my actions. Having said that, I agree with you that sin separates . He does sanctify us ,until we shall be just like Him ,on that gloroius day. Till then, we need each other, to walk in the light,and be real with each other ,transparent, sins and faults and all. How do you or any priest know the intent of the heart ? Is there a sincerity test ? This is why at the beginning many people saw water baptism as the only real hope for a deathbed cleansing …What happens if you continue in a sin,venial or mortal ? Where is the cleansing , the power ? I tell you for many,not all, the power is lacking, hence the vanity is seen in the confessional.

 

[david_ruiz]

It appears you left without ever beginning to understanding the basics. It is not the Church that forgives sins. It is Christ - the priest acts in persono Christi just as Christ gave them the ability to do in Acts when he gave the disciples the ability to do this and it was passed down through Apostolic Succession.

Exactly ,make disciples of all nations ,even all men . So are you a disciple , baptized in the name of the Father ,etc, ? That commission extends to you and me . I tell you as surely as you put your faith in Christ’s atoning Blood ,your sins are forgiven. If you say you are not a sinner ,and need not His Blood , your sins are retained,and are in danger of damnation.That is His teaching ,which has succeeded down to us , by His church , the pillar of truth.

 

[david_ruiz]

"

Where do you get that I think the Bible is not a living thing?

 

[joandarc2008]

Exactly ,make disciples of all nations ,even all men . So are you a disciple , baptized in the name of the Father ,etc, ? That commission extends to you and me . I tell you as surely as you put your faith in Christ’s atoning Blood ,your sins are forgiven. If you say you are not a sinner ,and need not His Blood , your sins are retained,and are in danger of damnation.That is His teaching ,which has succeeded down to us , by His church , the pillar of truth.

There is a difference between proclaiming Gospel and having priestly ordination. The twelve were given the breath of the Holy Spirit that was not given to everyone in the manner of retaining and forgiving sins. That is why we have the Sacrament of Confession that is given to us through God’s grace.

 

[david_ruiz]

=po18guy;7264295]That is not the way Jesus, our perfect Model, did it in the bible. How do you justify doing it differently from how Jesus did it in the bible, a And, by what authority do you bypass Jesus and go directly to God? The bible says that Jesus is our one mediator!

Howdy .You sound like a solo scriptura pro .I have not read Catholic interpretation of how Jesus forgave in the bible ,but at least we agree He did .I guess we just disagree on how Jesus does it now . You claim Jesus does it in persona of a priest, others that Jesus does it Himself, as if he were still alive and well on planet Earth. So please , I do not believe any one is saying bypass Jesus. He is our one mediator,as you say. Does Jesus mediate less if I go to Him directly ? Did anyone go to Him indirectly in the bible ? Did not the apostles go out two by two , while Jesus was physically still with them ? Did they say to villagers , "I will forgive your sins , in the name of this Jesus “, or did they say, " In the name of Jesus, your sins can be forgiven” ? They are two totally different attitudes, commissions , authorities…Some believe Jesus is more mediator one on one, than thru another “persona”.I do not think that is unreasonable . I understand your belief that Christ setup a "persona ’ to go thru . Alas, we are right back to Garden of Eden ,and , "What hath God really said ? ".

 

[ChristianSurfer]

Please review this discussion of 1 Tim 4:14, 1 Tim 5:22, 2 Tim 2:2, Titus 1:5

thanks for the resource!

 

[david_ruiz]

There is a difference between proclaiming Gospel and having priestly ordination. The twelve were given the breath of the Holy Spirit that was not given to everyone in the manner of retaining and forgiving sins. That is why we have the Sacrament of Confession that is given to us through God’s grace.

Howdy. like your picture of Joan . Is there a difference in commissions?.When I said that was rebutted by Catholics,that the commission was more than the preach the gospel.So ,I try to include all commissions .They were to preach, teach ,baptize,make disciples of all men, forgiveness of sins ,retaining.To me they are are all “one” You can not preach the gospel , unless to talk of forgiveness or retention of sins.You can not teach unless you cover the same sin issue.You can not disciple unless you cover how sins are retained and forgiven. We are all to be His disciples . Are you saying you can preach the gospel , as a lay person , yet it have no bearing or authority on your listeners sins ? Is your preaching “come to my church” or “come to Jesus” ? I am sure your church will bring you to Jesus thru the priest . I am sure the latter, will bring you into the church ,and make you a priest thru Jesus. Yes ,Jesus breathed on them .He happened to also mention part of the great commission dealing with sin .It is your catholic interpretation that says it is not for you and i also .Tell me what is the unforgiveable sin ? What is blaspheming the Holy Spirit ? When they apostles when out , after this (and Pentecost) who was really speaking thru them and by what power ? If you say no or even blaspheme their ,or their successors’ message ,whom are you really saying no to or blaspheming ? Do you see the significance of the Holy Spirit in their lives ,with the "message’ Are we not all to be baptized with this spirit also .So when you preach the gospel , at work , or the neighborhood or the mission field , is not your message breathed on by God ? And wow to those who refuse the “message”, their sins retained ,and blessing (and forgiveness of sins) to those who receive it.

 

[joandarc2008]

Howdy. like your picture of Joan . Is there a difference in commissions?.When I said that was rebutted by Catholics,that the commission was more than the preach the gospel.So ,I try to include all commissions .They were to preach, teach ,baptize,make disciples of all men, forgiveness of sins ,retaining.To me they are are all “one” You can not preach the gospel , unless to talk of forgiveness or retention of sins.You can not teach unless you cover the same sin issue.You can not disciple unless you cover how sins are retained and forgiven. We are all to be His disciples . Are you saying you can preach the gospel , as a lay person , yet it have no bearing or authority on your listeners sins ? Is your preaching “come to my church” or “come to Jesus” ? I am sure your church will bring you to Jesus thru the priest . I am sure the latter, will bring you into the church ,and make you a priest thru Jesus. Yes ,Jesus breathed on them .He happened to also mention part of the great commission dealing with sin .It is your catholic interpretation that says it is not for you and i also .Tell me what is the unforgiveable sin ? What is blaspheming the Holy Spirit ? When they apostles when out , after this (and Pentecost) who was really speaking thru them and by what power ? If you say no or even blaspheme their ,or their successors’ message ,whom are you really saying no to or blaspheming ? Do you see the significance of the Holy Spirit in their lives ,with the "message’ Are we not all to be baptized with this spirit also .So when you preach the gospel , at work , or the neighborhood or the mission field , is not your message breathed on by God ? And wow to those who refuse the “message”, their sins retained ,and blessing (and forgiveness of sins) to those who receive it.

I am going to make this very easy for you - Their is a difference between a disciple (a follower of Christ) who is baptized and Confirmed and a presbyter which is a word in the Bible a long with deacon and bishop. The presbyters were actually made up of the 12 disciples their that were given the power to retain and forgive sins.

The only real unforgiveable sins - a sin against the Holy Spirit - meaning - one where a person has chosen Satan over the Lord or one that they refuse to ask forgiveness for.

When we evangelize which in all Christian faiths is a Christian duty we evangelize to both the Church and Christ - check Ephesians 5 - the Church is the Bride of Christ. The Magisterium of the Church is the Apostolic Succession of Christ giving Peter the Keys to the Kingdom. This is a short answer to all that- but it is a start. If you really want to know - Iwould suggest picking up a Catechism - I think it will suprise you to find footnotes of Bible verses - where you don’t find footnotes Bible verses you will find footnotes to Councils that will have footnotes to Bible verses.

It is 2000 years of some of the best minds taking the Bible and arguing this stuff out and placing it in language that can be read and understood.

God bless,