Do Catholics and Orthodox already share Eucharistic communion?

[OrthodoxJosh]

Yeah right! LOL!

I meant the History of Orthodoxy before the 20th Century

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

One condition before the inter-Communion was an agreement on Christology. We are pretty sure that they accept and teach what the Catholic Church teaches.

I’m not confusing them. I’m just saying that between the Catholic Church and the various other true Apostolic Churches, there is in fact an inter-Communion going on as we type.

Not to run the subject in the ground (which I may have done already). The Non-Chalcedonians still refuse to call Our Lady “Theotokou” (english “translation” Theotokos) or Mother of God, instead referring to Her as Christotokos (Mother of Christ). This alone the even though they claim that the whole issue was semantics (that they still believe in the two natures of Christ" the refuse to confess that the Virgin gave birth to the God-Man, and only gave birth to His Humanity, therefore teaching that only His humanity died on the Cross. This means that His death was ineffectual for our Salvation. Hell could have held a simple man, but when it met God in the Flesh it could not contain Him, and so He was able to be raised on the third day. This is why the Early Fathers called them heretics and denied that they were Christians,

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

BOY!! As someone who has been working for Catholic Orthodox unity for well over 20 years I have NEVER met an Orthodox who said any of that rubbish. Now you can find them on the net, I at least have never met one of them, even the monks I have met and spoken with on Mt Athos, Mt Sinai in Greece, Russia and the Holy Land have NEVER said anything as harsh as that. They all acknowledge there are issues that divide us and that they need to be dealt with, but none have been as ignorant to say anything that comes close to what was quoted above.

Lord have mercy!!

So sorry to break this to you, Ciero, but the Monks of Athos may not say it to your face to be polite, but they do say it. Especially at Esphigmenou and many of the Sketes and Kellia where many hermits live. And these are the men who liv their lives striving in Hesychia, and receive such grace of the Holy Spirit that we can’t even dream of. Just as Christ has one Body, He also established one Church through HIs Apostles. I’m surprised that you visited Athos and did not leave Orthodox! I encourage you, if i have not offended you beyond forgiveness for my forwardness, to begin to say the Efche on a regular basis (you can read the Philokalis to learn a bit on how to pray it properly). “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner,” You will not believe the depth of spiritual life that this will open to you. Be warned, however, that at the outset the demons may begin to attach you to scare you away from the prayer because of its awesome power against then, Before you beging you may want to purchase and read “The way of the Pilgrim”. The book has no known author, but it will greatly inspire you to begn the prayer, and this prayer will change your life!

The Sinner,
Josh
(greek form of the prayer: “Kyrie Iisous Khriste, Ie tou Theou, eleison me, ton amartolon+”

 

[Cavaradossi]

I never once called myself “more holy” than anyone. My comments about Bartholomew and other Patriarchs of local churches were meant to convey that they have not adhered to the cannons of the Church concerning prayer with heretics (which we are forbidden to do), and that they are themselves espousing the “Branch Theory” which basically says that all churches are equal and that there is not One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I can’t remember the Russian Church website that lists all the cannons of the Eastern Church, but you can try to find a copy of the book “The Rudder” which does list exstensively the Cannons of the Eastern Orthodox Church. My problem is not with the church of Rome, per se, but with the Orthodox Patriarchs not heeding these Cannons which our Holy Fathers, and even the Apostles set down as the governing Cannons of the Church. I believe that the Holy Father is “Primer Inter Pares” and not the Supreme Pontiff. I apologize if I have scandalized anyone by my comments. It all started with me explaining to another poster that the Eastern and Western Churches still don’t share the Eucharist with one another. I however won’t apologize for speaknig what I believe is the truth without prettying it up for anyone. As far as my use of the Julian Calendar, please remember until Pope Gregory (which ever one he was) even the Latin Church used the Julian Calendar. At the inception of the Gregorian Calendar Europe itself had a hard time getting used to it, but eventually made it work. The reason Traditionalist Orthodox use the Julian Calendar is because it was the calendar used during the Seven Eccumenical Councils, and even the Apostles themselves, so we feel that we are simply carrying on the Tradition as it was handed down to us. Again, I am no man’s judge. That is God the Trinity alone. I am the cheif among sinners, and was only hoping to engage other liturgical christians in dialogue. I am no theologian, I am a simple sinner who sometimes wishes to share my opinions and hope to learn from the opinions of others. Please remember me in your prayers, and I will try to remember you in mine.

The unworthy sinner,
Josh

Most Holy Mother of God Save us!

The problem is that the prohibition against prayer with heretics is not so clearly defined. Suppose you have a friend who is Catholic, for example, and his father dies. Do you attend the funeral mass for his father or do you not go? Different people will argue that going is in violation of the canon, others will argue that going but not participating is not in violation of the canon, others argue that even if you were to participate, it would be permissible with your bishop’s permission (an application of economia). There is truth to each answer, and the response obviously should be crafted with the person in mind.

As a bishop, Patriarch Bartholomew was perfectly within his rights in 2006 to invite the Pope of Rome to participate in a service led by the Orthodox in Constantinople (and had he gone too far, then his fellow bishops would have corrected him either with deposition or with some other form of reprimand, which did not happen). Whether Patriarch Athenagoras had the authority to lift the anathemas of 1054 is another matter, but he has been in repose for over thirty years now, so whatever justifiable reason there might have been for a schism over the lifting of the anathemas of 1054 is gone. The canons are not laws, but guidelines for how the Church should be run. They are not infallible sources of doctrine, nor are they immutable, for it is said that the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.

 

[Catherine_Grant]

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