Do Catholics believe in imputed righteousness?

[WCH]

Well, this causes me to wonder what you must think of Paul’s letter and the reason for its writing. Since those in the Church had already received “imputed righteousness”, why would they need to confess at all? Are you claiming that sin can destroy that righteousness?

I don’t know what you’re talking about, friend. My post is in response to what you said, and what you said had nothing to do with what you’re saying in the above post as far as I can tell.

Any idea why it was given, and what happened to it?

Yes to both questions.

 

[WesleyF]

I’m sorry, I probably wasn’t very clear in my request.

I asked if you would please cite the verse in which it is stated that God infuses you with righteousness? Which passage(s) says that?

“that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the** washing of water** with the word,” (Eph 5:26)

Washing of water is baptism. We were cleansed, or made righteous, or given righteousness by that cleansing - infused righteousness.

At the same time, we are infused with righteousness every time our sins are forgiven by God.

“but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7)

As explained by Jimmy Akin, the Catholic understanding of righteousness is that it is a property (like guilt, innocence) that adheres to our souls. When we are cleansed of sin by God, he gives our soul that property.

 

[guanophore]

If by “sacrament of reconciliation” you mean confession of sins,

Yes.

all believers have the ability to confess their sins directly to God.

Yes, but those that belong to Churches founded by Apostles confess them in the presence of those who have been authorized by Christ to remit them.

Look in a lexicon, you’ll see they haven’t.

The meanings assigned by the Reformers to many words and theological concepts are significantly different than those that have been passed down to us from the Apostles.

”Development of Doctrine” doesn’t occur in Catholicism? Are you sure?

The development refers to our understanding and application of the Apostolic doctrine. We believe that the full deposit of faith was made to the Church by the Apostles. We are not at liberty to add or subtract from what was handed down to us through the paradosis.

Yes, Scripture is Apostolic teaching.

It is, but when it is read and interpreted apart from the faith that produced it, some stray from the Apostolic Teaching.

 **”Be diligent to…accurately handle the word of truth...”** private interpretation isn’t an error it’s encouraged.

No. Accurately handling the Word of Truth is done in communion with the faith that produced the words. Reading it in a state of separation from that faith causes interpretations that go astray. Some of them, so far astray that they present “a different gospel” than what was handed down to us from the Apostles.

Authority comes from God.

Indeed.

John 20:21-23
As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Matt 9:6-8
6 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" - he then said to the paralytic - “Rise, take up your bed and go home.” 7 And he rose and went home. 8 When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, ***who had given such authority to men. ***

Who do you suppose these “men” are?

I have that already.

You have an authoritative Church?

"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin (Rom 3:24-4:5; 4:8; cf Ps 32:1, 2).

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them… (2 Cor 5:19).

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to us when we are born again in baptism.

The Reformation heresy is that this state of righteousness cannot ever be lost - that suddenly the nature of sin has changed, so that it no longer separates a person from God.

I quoted Paul; therefore my position is, Paul said so.

It is not Paul that we are taking issue with. Paul is Catholic. Everything he wrote is Catholic. What we are taking issue with is your interpretation of Paul Your notions of what it means to “study to show thyself approved” are significantly different than what the Apostles believed and taught.

OK. You don’t believe the righteousness of Christ is perfect and flawless.

Actually, that is the opposite of what WesleyF said. Do you want to have a discussion, or are you just here to pick a fight? It seems like you are not really interested in understanding the Catholic position.

I thought you believed that about Christ.

Why didn’t you use the passage that declares you righteous by God. Will you cite it, so that I might know which passage it is?

Yes. It is our unity with Christ, or state of being “in Him” that makes us the righteousness of God. Not just “declared”, but we BECOME that righteousness.

2 Cor 5:20-21
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t know what you’re talking about, friend. My post is in response to what you said, and what you said had nothing to do with what you’re saying in the above post as far as I can tell.

I transposed my answers. My bad. Which of Paul’s writings leads you to believe that he endorses private interpretation of scripture?

 

[WCH]

Yes, but those that belong to Churches founded by Apostles confess them in the presence of those who have been authorized by Christ to remit them.

Last time I checked, God was authorized to remit sin. I don’t think that’s changed since then.

The meanings assigned by the Reformers to many words and theological concepts are significantly different than those that have been passed down to us from the Apostles.

Look in a Greek Lexicon. You’ll see the word meanings are the same. No one has changed them.

The development refers to our understanding and application of the Apostolic doctrine. We believe that the full deposit of faith was made to the Church by the Apostles. We are not at liberty to add or subtract from what was handed down to us through the paradosis.

Same here.

It is, but when it is read and interpreted apart from the faith that produced it, some stray from the Apostolic Teaching.

There’s only one faith, guanophore (Eph 4:5).

No. Accurately handling the Word of Truth is done in communion with the faith that produced the words.

There’s only one faith, guanophore (Eph 4:5).

Reading it in a state of separation from that faith causes interpretations that go astray.

There’s only one faith, guanophore (Eph 4:5).

Some of them, so far astray that they present “a different gospel” than what was handed down to us from the Apostles.

The Gospel handed down by the apostles is written out in Scripture for all to read.

Who do you suppose these “men” are?

It’s Christ’s power on display, so it’s Christ.

You have an authoritative Church?

And authoritative Scripture.

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to us when we are born again in baptism.

Excellent.

The Reformation heresy is that this state of righteousness cannot ever be lost - that suddenly the nature of sin has changed, so that it no longer separates a person from God.

The Reformation position is Biblical. I’ve yet to see anyone who can successfully challenge it.

Yes. It is our unity with Christ, or state of being “in Him” that makes us the righteousness of God. Not just “declared”, but we BECOME that righteousness.

So do Protestants:

2 Corinthians 3:18

…we…are being transformed into the same image [of the Lord] from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

2 Cor 5:20-21
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

A great verse proclaiming a great Biblical truth.

 

[WCH]

I transposed my answers. My bad. Which of Paul’s writings leads you to believe that he endorses private interpretation of scripture?

If memory serves, I think I was referring to 2 Tim 2:15.

 

[guanophore]

Forensic justification is God declaring the sinner righteous in His sight. The sinner is no longer guilty.

Seems appropriate, coming from an attorney.

 The inward change begins at that time, and through sanctification the believer is brought into conformity with the image of Christ.

That little golden chain, no?

 **Pickle

3** : an article of food that has been preserved in brine or in vinegar;
specifically : **a cucumber ** that has been so preserved
Merriam-Webster, I. (1996, c1993). Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary. Includes index. (10th ed.). Springfield, Mass., U.S.A.: Merriam-Webster. IOW, guanophore, A pickle IS A CUCUMBER.

Actually, it is this denial of the transformation of the soul that occurs in baptism that is one of the most serious heresies of the Reformation. As you can see from your quote above, the salient “has been”. Once the cucumber is “so preserved”, it never can revert to it’s former state. That is why, exactly, when a Christian falls from grace, their last state is EVEN WORSE than the first.

I’m sorry, I probably wasn’t very clear in my request.

I asked if you would please cite the verse in which it is stated that God infuses you with righteousness? Which scripture passage(s) says that?

John 14:15-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

1 Cor 6:11
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Gal 3:27-28
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The HS comes to dwell in the believer when we are washed in baptism. We are sanctified (made holy), justified, and are clothed with Christ.

 

[WCH]

Actually, it is this denial of the transformation of the soul that occurs in baptism that is one of the most serious heresies of the Reformation. As you can see from your quote above, the salient “has been”. Once the cucumber is “so preserved”, it never can revert to it’s former state. That is why, exactly, when a Christian falls from grace, their last state is EVEN WORSE than the first.

I’m talking about pickles guanophore, and not the soul; therefore, it’s impossible for me to be denying anything about the soul.

 

[WCH]

John 14:15-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

1 Cor 6:11
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Gal 3:27-28
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The HS comes to dwell in the believer when we are washed in baptism. We are sanctified (made holy), justified, and are clothed with Christ.

Where do those passage say you are “infused with righteousness?”

 

[WCH]

Seems appropriate, coming from an attorney.

If you say so.

That little golden chain, no?

What are you talking about?

 

[po18guy]

If memory serves, I think I was referring to 2 Tim 2:15.

Please read it again, with the eyes of the Apostolic church. It says “all scripture is…” NOT “scripture is all…”. This is a huge difference. Saint Paul says in: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 (King James Version) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle". The early Church, the original Church, was Apostolic. Some still are.

The Apostle Peter says that no matter of scriptural prophecy is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20). (King James Version) “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation”.

He was speaking specifically of the twisting of Paul’s words.

There is much more to Christ, much more to Christianrty than the limitied amount that is written in the bible. The Orthodox have known this since day one. Just wondering: do you have a problem with the Orthodox Church?

 

[po18guy]

Where do those passage say you are “infused with righteousness?”

Right after the verse that says “imputed righteousness…”

 

[po18guy]

I’m talking about pickles guanophore, and not the soul; therefore, it’s impossible for me to be denying anything about the soul.

A pickle does not have free will - the change is chemical, not spiritual.

 

[po18guy]

Open letter to WCH: You claim that the rebellion did not change the lexicon, yet we each use different terms that may or may not describe the same thing - all from the same scripture. How is this possible, since the bible is “self-interpreting”? Why are there thousands of differing denominations, all of which use the same “self-interpreting” bible?

Please look at Nehemiah 8:5-8 and Acts 8:26-35. Ezra and the priests had to give the sense of the law so that the people could understand. The angel of the Lord sent Philip to explain scripture to the Ethiopian eunuch - who had what you claim is “self-interpreting” scripture. The bible teaches that scripture must have authoritative interpretation.

If you are truly searching for the truth, remain here and dialog. Your faith in SS will be shaken since, without authoritative interpretation, it is a foundation of sand. Word.

 

[Carlan]

I will just say to you WCH, if righteousnes is only external as you ,and the Calvinist believes( which is that sin and sinfullness is still present with-in the soul) I would like to know how you will ever enter heaven, for nothing unclean can enter in, Scripture says so (Rev 21-27) Don’t know if you, as a Calvinist, believe in the purification process, but I would say if you don’t change your thinking on the whole subject that would be your hope…In that state, the mind would be changed for sure! We pray, Peace, Carlan

 

[Carlan]

A soul has to be clean . We can’t have any attachment to sin at death and bring that into heaven.
. When I die I cannot bring spiritual distortion before God, I have to be rid of any such sin and sinfulness to get in, not merely covered.
I have to be washed clean of sin and sinfulness AND PURGED, in the name of the Trinity, of my own filth.
Baptism does that for me and at the same time Justifies me and fills me with sanctifying grace to make me holy as Christ is holy, makes me righteous as Christ is righteous.
If after Baptism I fall back into sin mortally, without repenting, I lose all righteousness and cannot enter heaven. That’s it! Peace, Carlan

 

[lampalm]

Yes. It is our unity with Christ, or state of being “in Him” that makes us the righteousness of God. Not just “declared”, but we BECOME that righteousness.

I agree with this
I believe it is called being born again (not in the televangelist style)

 

[lampalm]

I think I am a little confused…
Infused righteousness sounds like sanctification?

Edit: Do Catholics believe that they are not righteous until final sanctification?

 

[WCH]

Please read it again, with the eyes of the Apostolic church. It says “all scripture is…” NOT “scripture is all…”. This is a huge difference.

I said 2 Tim **2:**15.

 

[WCH]

Right after the verse that says “imputed righteousness…”

Would you give me a specific book, chapter and verse because there’s nothing about “infused” anything in Rom 4:4.