Do Catholics believe John 6:53?

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BereanRuss said:
You cannot be forgiven in the CC without the mediation of the priest. If can be completely forgiven there is no need for the sacrament of reconciliation.
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Ok, Russ. Here it is…from the mouth of Christ regarding forgiveness: (via the Magisterium, via Apostolic succession: He who hears you, hears me)

By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. CCC 1263 (emphasis mine)

Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God who has become a “partaker of the divine nature,” (2 Cor 5:16, 2 Pet 1:4; cf Gal 4:5-7) member of Christ and co-heir with him, (cf 1 Cor 6:15; 12:27; Rom 8:17) and a temple of the Holy Spirit.(cf 1 Cor 6:19) CCC 1265

Who can Baptize?
The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest, and in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, any person, even someone not baptized, can baptize, if he has the required intention. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation. (cf 1 Tim 2:4) CCC 1256 (emphasis mine again)
 
Randy_Carson said:
But there will not be a "rapture’ as you have been led to believe. Jesus is only coming back once - at the end of the age. There will not be an intermediary return when Christians are whisked away while others are “left behind.”
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Why do care what I believe about th future things when we cannot even agree on present things?
 
BereanRuss said:
And Peter was not permitted by the Father to speak. When he did attempt to speak, he spoke fool foolishly.
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Yup.

I’m guessing you’d forgotten about our Lord conversing with Elijah and Moses at the Transfiguration, else you would not have boldly requested examples in Scripture of Jesus praying to Saints. Thus, what Christ did, we follow.
 
mikeledes said:
🤷 This thread is supposed] to be about John 6:53 and yet I haven’t seen a response to post #s 878-884?
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I agree. Lets get back on subject.

I am sure that I have responded to most questions concerning John 6:53 but I will revisit 878 - 884.
 
jmcrae said:
Mortal sins (those that cut us off from the Throne of Grace) need to be confessed to the priest (because, how can we approach the Throne of Grace, if we have cut ourselves off from it by the seriousness of our sins?) but other sins can be forgiven in prayer and good deeds.
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There are no degrees of sin, all sin is against Gods will. You are never cut off from the Throne of Grace if you are saved. In fact you can not get to the Throne of grace unless you ARE saved, as you can not go through Christ to get to the Throne of grace without salvation. Ralph
 
PRmerger said:
Yup.

I’m guessing you’d forgotten about our Lord conversing with Elijah and Moses at the Transfiguration, else you would not have boldly requested examples in Scripture of Jesus praying to Saints. Thus, what Christ did, we follow.
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Jesus if God and is the author of the language of Heaven. You are not permitted to speak there except through the One mediator, Jesus.
 
BereanRuss said:
Which is not scriptural. Baptism is meaningless until there is first a profession of faith.

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized? Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Until there is faith, there is no reason to baptize.
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Did you not read in Scripture about households being baptized? Do you not think there were little ones in these households?

What about St. Paul calling baptism the circumcision of Christ. What age did the Jews circumcize their children?

And St. Peter: “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him”
 
BereanRuss said:
I agree. There are greater and lesser gifts but there is NOT greater and lesser access to the throne of Grace. The priest does not have more access then you to the throne of grace.
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No one has claimed that he does. In fact, I might be a more holy person than he is. But, he has a specific role to play as a member of the body of Christ - he is Christ’s ear. I might be Christ’s foot, going into the outside world to spread the Gospel, or His knee, bending in worship of God.
You will receive true forgiveness when you come boldly to Him as we are commanded to do.
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I come boldly to the Confessional, which is the Throne of Grace here on earth, because I have not yet acquired the ability to go to Heaven (I will do that after I die, God willing). 🙂
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all [points] tempted as [we are], [yet] without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. [Heb 4:15…]
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Amen! 👍
 
jmcrae said:
Not at all. Only that not all of God’s word was written down. We hear God’s word at Mass and in the Sacraments, we read God’s word in the Scriptures, and we experience God’s word in our obedience to the Commandments.

Because the believer is also going to Church, participating in the spiritual life, praying, and living out his Christian witness in the world. The Scriptures “complete” him because he is also doing all of these other things - he is not relying on Scripture alone to save him - he is relying on God (Jesus) as He has been made known in all of these different ways.
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Okay. Is it not time that the Roman Catholic church produced some of this traditions on paper they keep talking about, I don’t mean the things written down by the catholic church as to the things they added on or taken away from scripture. I would like to see you back up some of the things that you are saying and where the authority comes from. My backup comes from the word of God. For instance, show me where the “priest” gets the power to change the “bread” and “blood” into the body and blood of Christ. Ralph
 
BereanRuss said:
When we say that Jesus is speaking figuratively when He said, “…unless you eat the flesh…” we are saying that Jesus was teaching that He must abide inside the heart, not the stomach.
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Russ, after reading your posts on this thread I can see that you have quite a bit of mis-information regarding the CC.

The above is another example. We do not say that Christ must abide in the stomach, not the heart. :rolleyes:

We do one better than what your church says–Christ is not only in our heart–we become ONE with Christ. Our entire being is united with Him in the Eucharist! Just like the marriage covenant between husband and wife! HOW AWESOME IS THAT!! Who would not want that???
 
mikeledes said:
(From post 878…) If John habitually provides a clarification when Christ made less controversial statements, then why is it that he doesn’t provide one when Jesus makes one of the most controversial statements in the Gospels? The fact that John provides no clarification indicates that Jesus meant what He said and hence needed no clarification from John. But John is not the only one that clarifies Jesus’s statements. Jesus also does it Himself.
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Jesus Himself explained that the words he was speaking were not literal but were, “spirit and life.”

If Jesus is speaking literally in this passage then He is contradicting MANY other scriptures…

…that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [Rom 10:9…]

Notice that it is not what goes into the mouth that saves a man but what comes out of the mouth saves. If you confess with your mouth…

Jesus said, “Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated?”

Nothing you eat can save you. Only what you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth can save you.
 
**Posted by joe370:

When did I change the definition of the word church? Jesus’ one church is comprised of brothers and sisters in Christ, firstly ordained leaders (Acts 1; Matthew 28:20) and then the laity, such as myself…
**

Posted by Russ:

If you believed this verse you would have not problem with protestantism…

**Which P.C. in the world today existed when Jesus said the following to which you believe was addressed to all P.C. ministers/teachers who are teaching all that Jesus commanded, yet totally divided, e.g.: which Lutheran church is correct; is it the one that believes in the literal interpretation, or the one that believes in the symbolical interpretation of John 6? **

Acts 1: “you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

“…Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

I don’t have a problem with any P.C.'s; most of my family members belong to P.C.'s. Again I ask: if you could recommend a P.C. to which I could belong, which one would it be???

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

**In the protestant world, the Spirit of God seems to be leading all of the protestant churches away from one another; they are not one; they are divided. If they are all being led by the Spirit of God, then why are they not united as the C.C. is, as per decree of both Jesus and His Apostles? **

God does not fit conveniently in your Catholic box.

OK…God absolutely does not fit conveniently in ALL of the Protestant boxes either; Agreed??? Where does He fit??? To which church can a fledgling Christian go to find the fullness of faith, and please don’t say: all assemblies of brothers and sisters in Christ in the world today, are ONE and UNITED?
 
ralphy said:
Okay. Is it not time that the Roman Catholic church produced some of this traditions on paper they keep talking about, I don’t mean the things written down by the catholic church as to the things they added on or taken away from scripture. I would like to see you back up some of the things that you are saying and where the authority comes from. My backup comes from the word of God. For instance, show me where the “priest” gets the power to change the “bread” and “blood” into the body and blood of Christ. Ralph
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He gets it by means of the laying on of hands, with the line of hands going back all the way to Jesus and the 12 disciples.

Only one with authority can pass on authority. (Martin Luther had no authority to ordain priests or Bishops, so any line that runs back through Martin Luther is an invalid line.)

Jesus (who is God, and has authority) gave the 12 disciples authority to “do this in remembrance of Me” at the Last Supper. * He also gave them authority to hear Confessions and forgive sins in the Upper Room on Easter Sunday night, when He said, “As the Father has sent me, so I send you. Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” John 20:19-23

The disciples ordained Bishops, and passed the same authority to them to do the same, together with authority to ordain presbyters (priests) and deacons to assist with this work.

The lineage of the Popes is found here - the Pope has authority to ordain Bishops, who in their turn ordain priests and deacons.*
 
ralphy said:
Okay. Is it not time that the Roman Catholic church produced some of this traditions on paper they keep talking about, Ralph
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Well, Ralph, how about the canon of Scripture itself? That’s part of Sacred Tradition. It’s not written down in Scripture that, for example, the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired, right? Does Scripture anywhere say that Luke is to be included in the bible but the Didache is not?
 
BereanRuss said:
Linear form. When you do a quote, there is a link to the previous post. Joe is knowingly or unknowingly defeating this feature in at least one post - and more I believe.
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I think that he has not yet found the “quote” button.
 
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