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NotWorthy
Guest
Amen!
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NotWorthy
Guest
Correct! For they had the authority to bind and loose. Jesus knew this in Matthew 16 and 18 and gave this authority to His Bride, the Church.
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NotWorthy
Guest
So, can one sin their way out of Salvation? If so, then there is more necessary than simply believing and confessing.
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NotWorthy
Guest
I think we’re getting close to the problem.
Can one have eternal life, and then lose it?
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joe370
Guest
Russ, are you saying that all I have to do is:
Confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead, and I will be saved; that’s it?
So, why do I see hundreds of other commandments in the N.T. to which all Christians are to obey, if this is all that is necessary?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Except for the Bible tells us to follow the Church. So, to follow the Bible, one must follow Christ’s Bride, the Church.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
Yes. We truly do. Keep in mind this is only one verse in support Christ’s teachings to the Apostles who implemented His plan for His Church.
Here’s a very good little website which has pulled many of the bible passages together in one place that help describe the Catholic Christian understanding of the Eucharist. It’s done an a very unambiguous way.
scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIa
Each passing day that I spend, by the grace of God, in His spiritual body, through His Church, brings me farther and farther from understanding how His teachings can be so misinterpreted. For instance, I can now, thankfully, not draw any other conclusions from John 6:53. It is what it is. Why would Jesus leave a puzzle? Where did He ever tell us that whenever you don’t agree with your brother, argue about what I’m saying to you, and start you, allow both of yourselves to be “right”, and each start your own church? I think we just work very hard at fighting against truth out of vanity and ego, frankly.
Having said this though, I certainly sympathize with thoughts like this about scripture and dogmas, etc… The idea of magesterium, and unchangeable truth is almost unfathomable to someone who’s been largely Buddhist most of their adult life. However, it happened, none the less. Through meditation at first, then talking and discussing Christian vs. Buddhist beliefs with friends, (Methodists, actually. Not Catholics), then picking up an audiobook by total random impulse, (which I now believe was actually a push by the Holy Spirit), and listening to an audio book during a cross country move from Kansas to Nevada of “The Lamb’s Supper”, by Scott Hahn. (Long story). The point is, the complete faith in the Church and the magestirium, concepts of divine and singular truth, a single interpretation of scripture and the concept of dogma were all as foreign to me as to anyone who I can think of. I relate to all questioners and spiritual travellers.
It is just as impossible for me now to understand how I held my former beliefs as it was for me understand the Catholic world view when I was Buddhist. The difference is, when I was Buddhist I felt like I was still searching for a meaning to life. My meditation and chanting began to turn to Jesus Christ, and his teachings, and my zen like questions, which are by purpose unanswerable, I started finding answers to as I was drawn farther and farther into the sacred heart of our Lord.
My prayers are always there now that all souls will be graced with conversion. That all disciples of Christ Jesus will come once again into one communion and understanding, and finally heal the wounds of the falling away of my Orthodox brothers and sisters from the primacy of St. Peter. That the scattering of my brothers and sisters in reponse to the frustrations of Luther will one day be brought back into communion. Christ didn’t wish for us to have 30,000 different interpretations of his teaching. He wanted one body. One union with his blessed bride, the Church. He commissioned His Apostles to keep it that way, and through them, and the Church faithers, and the Apostolic succession of the See of St. Peter, the Catholic Church has kept that commission.
In our current state, we can’t even come to agreement on the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist that Jesus himself quite clearly instituted. If you re-read all the passages regarding the foretelling and finally the institution of the sacrament, it becomes hard to see any other meanings.
The Catholic understanding of Eucharist makes complete sense to me, though it’s mysterious in nature. It is the focal point of my life now, in union with the other Holy Sacraments. I pray that all may experience the full joy that the revelation of a single truth brings to my heart and soul. It is astounding. It provides a blueprint for truly meaningful study to last for way more than one temporal lifetime. I believe there is enough to know to keep me engaged for eternity. I am in awe.
Peace to all,
Steven
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NotWorthy
Guest
So, here’s the conundrum.
A) One can learn from those who spoke Greek fluently, understood the culture of Jesus’ time, knew the Apostles, and learned from those Apostles.
or
B) One can learn from someone who doesn’t speak Greek, doesn’t even begin to understand the 1st century culture, has no clue about anything of these Apostles, and who tends to interpret Scripture according to their pre-conceived beliefs.
I think I’m going to pick A.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Aside from the obvious flaw in your thinking that everything must be demonstrated from the Bible, if I had to pick one, I would point to this:
“Do this in memory of me.”
Jesus would not command them to do something without given them the ability to obey.
I cannot say whether this was the precise moment that they were “ordained” or not; however, the verse clearly indicates Jesus’ intent regarding their ordination.
Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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Randy_Carson
Guest
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Randy_Carson
Guest
I see.
Do you BELIEVE Jesus when He said:
- This is my body. This is my blood. Do THIS in memory of me.
- If you forgive men’s sins they are forgiven. If you retain them, they are retained.
- You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church.
- Whatever you (Peter) bind on earth is also bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth is also bound in heaven.
That’s cafeteria Christianity, and it is the hallmark of Protestantism.
J
joe370
Guest
Russ, Ralph, are we in agreement here?
Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.” 1 Corinthians 14:24-25
Clearly, their secret thoughts have already been exposed to God prior to coming to the church meeting, for God sees all, therefore, their secret thoughts, which were clearly a reference to their secret misdeed, were to be exposed/confessed to the church!
Thank God this evolved into a private confessional; save a little face. --just as the doctrine of the Trinity evolved over time.
I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose. 1 Corinthians 1
Where can one go to find this harmony in the divided P.C.'s?
Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.” 1 Corinthians 14:24-25
Clearly, their secret thoughts have already been exposed to God prior to coming to the church meeting, for God sees all, therefore, their secret thoughts, which were clearly a reference to their secret misdeed, were to be exposed/confessed to the church!
Thank God this evolved into a private confessional; save a little face. --just as the doctrine of the Trinity evolved over time.I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose. 1 Corinthians 1
Where can one go to find this harmony in the divided P.C.'s?
T
twb1621
Guest
Ignored all the gospel verses I put before you again, hey Ralph?
Don’t quote the minimal scripture verses you select to make your misguided point when you can’t relate to the majority of the gospel that shows its meaning and your claim of interpretation wrong.
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twb1621
Guest
You don’t believe what is written in Scripture, you hide from the majority of it and claim only what is easiest for you to live by judging from your words and refusal to respond to scripture.
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twb1621
Guest
You only quote your selected misinterpreted verses from the Bible.
Come on Ralph, people are offering you verse after verse from Scripture and you ignore the with one liners because you have no supported rebuttal to offer if you respond at all. When are you going to admit to yourself you missed something very important in the Bible, stop promoting wrongly and learn the truth. It will only help you. All you have to do is look at all the scripture verses offered to you in these threads that you ignore compared to what you refer to and you will see you are way missing the word of God by a long shot.
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ralphy
Guest
Do you understand what you are saying when you say “as interpreted infallibly by the Magisterium”? I assume that the magisterium are earthly people (sinners who are in need of salvation) that you are talking about, and you say they are “infallible”, you are gullible. Only God is infallible. I do not claim “infallibility”, buy I do quote the One who is infallible. Ralph
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ralphy
Guest
Scripture is the only word I believe, anything else like “tradition” is not trustworthy. I do not make long speech’s when I am writing, I let scripture do the talking. Ralph
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PRmerger
Guest
Ok. Before we get into the infallibility of the Magisterium (which is Scriptural, BTW. And a blessing. We Catholics are blessed with the comfort of knowing we are following an infallible interpreter of the Word of God. What do you have, Ralph, except **40,000 denominations **
that each claim to understand God’s word on their own authority??)…You haven’t answered my question: do you now accept that the Bible is a result of Sacred Tradition?
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ralphy
Guest
I do not recall ever seeing this situation any place I went. I believe that speaking in tongues were for the unbelievers as we see in scripture, as each nation heard launguage in their own tongue.It was a gift from God. Can people speak in tongues today?. If God decided that He wanted someone to speak in tongues today, it would happen, however I believe that it would be in a known launguage. God does know all our sins even befor they are committed. I have heard people stand up in church and confess that they are under a certain sin, and want people to pray for them for strength to rid themselves of that sin. I have also heard alot of people stand up and say that God has delivered them from certain sin, and give praise to Him. As far as confessing our sins is concerned, I do not have to go into a confessional so no one can see me and tell my sins to some man. I do not need a mediator, I go directly to the One who can forgive me of my sin, the Lord Jesus Christ, right to the Throne of Grace. RalphRuss, Ralph, are we in agreement here?
Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.” 1 Corinthians 14:24-25
Clearly, their secret thoughts have already been exposed to God prior to coming to the church meeting, for God sees all, therefore, their secret thoughts, which were clearly a reference to their secret misdeed, were to be exposed/confessed to the church!
I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose. 1 Corinthians 1
Where can one go to find this harmony in the divided P.C.'s?
R
ralphy
Guest
I accept the Bible as being the Word of God, and that it was written by men who were under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Magisterium, men who are infallible.? You know there is ony one infallible person, right? RalphOk. Before we get into the infallibility of the Magisterium (which is Scriptural, BTW. And a blessing. We Catholics are blessed with the comfort of knowing we are following an infallible interpreter of the Word of God. What do you have, Ralph, except **40,000 denominations **
You haven’t answered my question: do you now accept that the Bible is a result of Sacred Tradition?
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