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PRmerger
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YES!! By Catholic men! That’s exactly what Sacred Tradition is!!! :extrahappy:
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PRmerger
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Scripture, please.
Otherwise, isn’t that your man-made tradition that declares that?
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ralphy
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Do you know what “catholic” means?
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PRmerger
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Yes, I do. catholic with a small C means universal. Catholic with a capital C means the One True Church founded by Christ which can be traced all the way back to Our Lord.
Can the Rapture theology be traced back even to 1700?
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DavidChrist
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Catholics believe anything-- even when they don’t understand it.
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twb1621
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Then go over all the scripture verses that have been presented by myself and all the others, see that what you are claiming is in direct opposite to the teachings of God throughout the Bible and understand that the Bible does not conflict with itself. If you start to consider these things and actually ollk at what you are claiming compared to the word of God, you can learn a great deal more accurately and that is all people here are trying to tell you. As it stands right now, you are very misled. As far as tradition goes, you are claiming then that the apostles deceived their disciples in telling the to hold true to the traditions and written word ?
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NotWorthy
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(Edited)Catholics believe anything that the Church teaches - even when they don’t understand it.
This precedent was set by our first Pope, although he wasn’t Pope yet. “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
(Edited)
This precedent was set by our first Pope, although he wasn’t Pope yet. “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
(Edited)
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twb1621
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Yes ralphy, and do you know the language it comes from? and do you know what the Septugent is? Do you know what the Vetus Itala is? How about the Latin Vulgate or any of the succeeding vulgates? The only changes in any of these came from the protestant movement 500 years ago. Now, if you want to raise the point of history and what “Catholic” means than refer to all recorded History and acknowledge that the Catholic Church is the one 2000 year old Church founded by Jesus and verified in historic documentation as the heart and beginning of Christianity. That is what you abandoned, The true Bride of Christ. that is what you blame for your own ignorance in knowing and understanding the truth of the Word, the Gospel. If I sound as though I have no compassion for your position it is because I have been there and learned on my own because I did not believe all that was taught to me by the CC and I was as ignorant as you are. It was in fact my responsibility to learn and I didn’t seek to do so and my shame when I learned the truth was almost unbearable. You are choosing to be ignorant as I did but are going much further in trying to convert others to your distorted beliefs and for that reason I have no sympathy for you in that regard. You can belong to any denomination you wish and try calling it Catholic but that doesn’t make it true. As I asked you before, reconsider your current position. Seek to LEARN not ignore all the verses presented to you. Now are you going to ignore this post too or begin to learn what you have refused and ran from until now?
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twb1621
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I offer this to you; you show me or us with credible sources how we are wrong because if you are the one who is correct we could never support our beliefs. On the other hand if you have no true knowledge of Christ and His teachings, you will agree to learn. Is that reasonable?
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twb1621
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Wow, that is profound, I don’t know how to dispute that one…
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guanophore
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It is true that they mean very little to many “disciples”, or something different than what the Apostles taught they meant.
It is also true that the majority of Catholics in the United States do not take His words seriously, because if they did, they would not be refraining from communion as many do, or taking it in a state of mortal sin.
However, it is not our place to find fault with others, but to receive and practice what we are commanded to do . I think you will have a difficult time finding any Catholics here on CAF that do not take them literally, or give to these words the greatest import. Since we have received the fullness of the truth, we have a greater responsibility for obeying it than those who have not received it.
Actually, we can. You see, what you have invented here is not what Jesus taught. Jesus told His disciples to participate in Eucharist so they would have life within them. This does not mean He cannot save others. God is not bound by commandments He gives to men.
For example, He commanded that no images be made of any living thing, on the earth or in the air, then He commanded Moses to make a graven image with snakes in it to heal the people.
It is only in your mind that you think that God needs to follow the same limits He gives to men.
According to the faith that has been handed down by the Apostles, those who are professed to belong to Christ are expected to obey all His commandments, including this one. In fact, I would venture that it is the graces present in this one that enables us to follow all the others.
This is a question that you need to answer for yourself, Russ. Catholics already have our answer.
This is not true, Berean. Jesus can save anyone He wants, however He likes. He has commanded us what we need to do to be saved. We find it prudent fo follow His commandment.
Besides, “literal” does not mean “material”. The fact that something is spiritual instead of material does not make it less “real” (literal). Angels have no corporeal element, yet they are reall (literal) messengers of God. God finds a way to bring all the saved into His One Body. We may not know or understand how He does this, but we do know that there is no other means by which we may be saved than through Christ, and that all who are saved are members of His One Body, the Church. So, it is a mystery.
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twb1621
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yes,
John CH 6 53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Luke CH 22 15 He said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover 5 with you before I suffer, 16 for, I tell you, I shall not eat it (again) until there is fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 Then he took a cup, 6 gave thanks, and said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18 for I tell you (that) from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 7 Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.
1 Corinthians CH 11 23 11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, 24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.
Not only is the instruction of the Lord made clear and the reason, the Apostles verify they continue the Eucharistic calibration and handed it on through their successors AND the fact that a person should not receive without cleansing or while in a state of sin. This is without doubt one of the crucial stipulations of our part of the Covenant Jesus made with us and the very act of receiving His body and blood is part of the sign of the covenant we uphold "…For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. "
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ralphy
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The “rapture” theology can be traced back to the time of Christ. 1 Cor 15:52. Ralph
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PRmerger
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Can you show me any documentation of anyone teaching this after the time of Christ, Ralph? How about in the 2nd century? Or the 5th century? Or the 11th century?
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ralphy
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Here is a short version: Catholic means “universal”. Church means: those who are born again, they belong to the Body of Christ which is His church. Ralph
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ralphy
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I was not around in those century"s. This is the Word of God, this has been taught since the time it was written. I belong to a “church” that teaches this. If you do not hear this message in your church, you are missing something “big time”. Check it out. Ralph
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PRmerger
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I don’t mean to offend, Russ. But what is prayer except divine conversation? Who gets offended by that??
But we have shown that Jesus did pray/converse with Elijah and Moses, so must Christians.
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fbl9
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Ralph i mean this with all my heart try actually reading the words written in the bible.St.Paul’s 1st espitle to the Corintians15;52"in a moment in a twinkling of an eye,at the LAST TRUMPET.FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND AND THE DEAD SHALL RISE INCORRUPTIBLE AND —WE—SHALL BE CHANGED" no this teaches nothing about the so-called “rapture” doctrine…in fact it disputes what is taught about the pre-trib. rapture…
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NotWorthy
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Do you have any documentations that shows that the Church has taught this since the time it was written.
From all we can see, other than an obscure document in the 3rd or 4th century that never gained traction, no word was written about this until the 1800’s. Surely, you can find something sooner than that if it was “taught since the time it was written”.
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ralphy
Guest
You will find the same reference to the “rapture” in 1 Thes 4:13-18. This is the pre-trib 'rapture". Ralph
St.Paul’s 1st espitle to the Corintians15;52"in a moment in a twinkling of an eye,at the LAST TRUMPET.FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND AND THE DEAD SHALL RISE INCORRUPTIBLE AND —WE—SHALL BE CHANGED" no this teaches nothing about the so-called “rapture” doctrine…in fact it disputes what is taught about the pre-trib. rapture…
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