Do Catholics go to heaven?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ella
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Check it out…lol

Not only do Catholics go to Heaven (and I’m not saying all of them do) but I’ll go as far as saying that .everyone in Heaven is CAtholic. Let him who has ears to hear, understand.

In Christ
Cephas 👍
 
40.png
Cephas:
Check it out…lol

Not only do Catholics go to Heaven (and I’m not saying all of them do) but I’ll go as far as saying that .everyone in Heaven is CAtholic. Let him who has ears to hear, understand.

In Christ
Cephas 👍
Click to expand...
Cephas,
You are right in saying that not all Catholics will go to heaven. I have no doubt that there are some Catholics burning in hell. We know for sure that the saints like Padre Pio are in heaven due to their intercession. You are however quite wrong in stating that everybody in heaven is catholic. That’s not the truth. If a non-catholic dies in a state of grace he will go to heaven but will have to go to purgatory first. Hence, their time to convert to catholicism has passed. To convert would not come without repentance. In the after life there is no repentance! Therefore the souls (catholic and non-catholic) in purgatory are not repenting but are being purified due to the effects of sin. Your statement that “all people in heaven are catholic” is an error.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Bones,

You wrote: “Your statement that “all people in heaven are catholic” is an error.”

I don’t think that statement is erroneous: you yourself stated that “If a non-catholic dies in a state of grace he will go to heaven but will have to go to purgatory first”. Yup, and the pride and blindness that kept that person from seeing the truth of Christ’s Church will be stripped away—I don’t think it’s presumptuous, then, to say that they will then be Catholic.
 
40.png
Sherlock:
Bones,

You wrote: “Your statement that “all people in heaven are catholic” is an error.”

I don’t think that statement is erroneous: you yourself stated that “If a non-catholic dies in a state of grace he will go to heaven but will have to go to purgatory first”. Yup, and the pride and blindness that kept that person from seeing the truth of Christ’s Church will be stripped away—I don’t think it’s presumptuous, then, to say that they will then be Catholic.
Click to expand...
Sherlock,
You lost the volley on the opening sentence. Salvation is not aimed at those who are ignorant of Christ and his church. You stated by saying “the pride and blindness that kept that person from seeing the truth of Christ’s Church will be stripped away” yes that is right. But it doesn’t mean they will then become catholic. To become Catholic literally and only means to be baptized and born again. They would then have to be become a member of the Church. This comes with repentance and therefore after death there is no repentance! You can’t convert to Catholicism after death. You very cleary overlooked that statement. Therefore Sherlock, your arguement “to say they will be Catholic” holds no ground.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
40.png
bones_IV:
Cephas,
You are however quite wrong in stating that everybody in heaven is catholic. That’s not the truth… Therefore the souls (catholic and non-catholic) in purgatory are not repenting but are being purified due to the effects of sin. Your statement that “all people in heaven are catholic” is an error.
Click to expand...
Hey Brother Bones,

Thanks for the reply, i beg ur prayers for me and my family.

Now, my statement is not wrong in anyway. Ur understanding of it may be though.

The Church, which is Catholic, being one, is found where?

In Heaven perfectly - on earth imperfectly - and in purgatory - being perfected for Heaven.

thus the Church Triumphant
the Church Militant
and the Church suffering

all ONE CHURCH.

Now, what I was alluding to (with the “let Him who has ears to hear…”) was that many, almost all, non-catholic Christians refuse praying to Jesus thru Mary, refuse to give any kind of honor to her (honor which Jesus Himself gave mind you), they refuse fellowship with the saints who have left this world and are now in the presence of God, and many other things.

After death, all Christian and all people, will be judged, and YOU ARE RIGHT, they cannot repent after death. they cannot convert. But their Judgement is not based solely upon whether or not one was Catholic or one was Baptist, or Pentecostal, etc…its based on Truth. Adherence to that Truth as revealed by God, both naturally and supernaturally.

one example -

a person, who by some misfortune, is NOT exposed to the reality that God is Trinity. He lives his life never knowing it, never believing it, then dies. If he finds himself in heaven, He is now believing in a Trinity because He is now in God’s presence. He died not knowing or believing. He didnt convert after death but know believes.

Whereas, one can have been exposed and chosen to reject it,
he dies. And just for arguments sake, lets say he too makes it to Heaven. He will now be believing it too, even though he rejected it will on earth…

i hope that helps…lol
 
Bones,

I see Cephas beat me to the punch with some points, but I’ll clarify my statement anyway.

You wrote: “You can’t convert to Catholicism after death.”

This is true, in the strict sense of a formal conversion. And obviously, in heaven, one has no need of the mediation of the Church. But that is not what I meant: I meant only that in heaven we will know the truth fully, as our blindness and vestiges of self-love will be stripped away. Part of that truth will be the recognition that, on earth, the Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth. That is what I meant, not a formal conversion process. I wasn’t speaking of theological certainties, of doctrine.
 
40.png
Sherlock:
Bones,

I see Cephas beat me to the punch with some points, but I’ll clarify my statement anyway.

You wrote: “You can’t convert to Catholicism after death.”

This is true, in the strict sense of a formal conversion. And obviously, in heaven, one has no need of the mediation of the Church. But that is not what I meant: I meant only that in heaven we will know the truth fully, as our blindness and vestiges of self-love will be stripped away. Part of that truth will be the recognition that, on earth, the Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth. That is what I meant, not a formal conversion process. I wasn’t speaking of theological certainties, of doctrine.
Click to expand...
Sherlock,
I stand by my original statement and will not change it. Even Father Lewis would tell you that not everyone in Heaven is Catholic. You can ask him yourself on EWTN. I agree with the two points regarding the truth one knows in Heaven. They might be Catholic in belief. But that doesn’t in anyway support the arguement that “everyone in heaven is Catholic.” That statement in of itself is misleading and innaccurate. There are Protestants, Jews, Muslims and people of other faiths in Heaven. Let me ask you something.
If everyone in Heaven is Catholic, where does that put the Prophets of the old testament? They are not Catholic, I think all of them were Jewish. (correct me if I’m wrong.) Were the Jews the Catholic Church of the old testament? Yes they were. Jesus Christ took it and raised it to a new level, therefore he fullfilled his religion. The Catholic Church therefore has the fullness of the truth. I far as I’m concerned Theological certainies of doctrine do matter.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Bones,

Good heavens, you are being very strict in your interpretation while I am merely saying that we will know the fullness of truth (including the truth of the Catholic Church) in heaven. I am NOT saying that no Buddhist, Hindu, Old Testament prophet, or Protestant will not go to heaven. I am not adopting a Feeney-ite interpretation, and I’m sorry if my original answer to this question implied that.

I asked a priest about this question this morning, and was told what I expected: namely, that you and I are both right. No, there won’t be a conversion to Catholicism, in the strict sense, as you correctly point out. And yes, those in heaven will know the truth of the Catholic Church, which is all I’m trying to say—the Buddhist in heaven will not deny the truth of the Catholic Church.

Shzeesh…
 
Oooops—double negative. My sentence should read, “I am NOT saying that no Buddhist, Hindu, Old Testament prophet, or Protestant will go to heaven.”
 
if all dogs go to heaven, surely some Catholics may go to heaven
 
Bones,

Buddhist in heaven. Jews in heaven. The OT prophets in heaven. Muslims in heaven. Anyone else, non-Catholic Christians in heaven. Amen and I believe and hope that many , by Gdd’s grace and mercy make it to heaven (Catholics too).

My point is not that only Catholic go to heaven…NO…The reality in Heaven is the same reality ONLY found in the Catholic faith…hence in heaven everyone is catholic.

i’lll try a little further:

Jews - don’t believe God is a Trinity; that Jesus was the expected Messiah; etc… In Heaven, they will be in the presence of a Triune God. YES or NO?? The reality of God can’t be denied in heaven therefore, the Jew that makes it to heaven, no longer will believe, or better HE MUST believe that God in TRINITY. NO LONGER JEW, in that sense. same goes for practically everyone else.

God has fully revealed Himself and the Catholic Church continues to make Him known perfectly.
Though, here on earth, we are not perfect, the realities of our faith are. And they are the same in Heaven.

Question: All non CAtholics who make it to heaven…what will they believe in Heaven that would be different from let’s say…a Catholic? or even, what would they believe in heaven that is DIFFERENT from what the Catholic Church teached here on earth?

Bones?
 
Chephas, Yes! You wrote:

Question: All non CAtholics who make it to heaven…what will they believe in Heaven that would be different from let’s say…a Catholic? or even, what would they believe in heaven that is DIFFERENT from what the Catholic Church teached here on earth?

Surely all who are in heaven will all know and believe the very same thing since they will be in the company of all the Saints, all the escapees from Purgatory and they will see the Triune God face to face.

Catholic means “universal”. All in heaven will be the universal church with Christ as it’s head. If we had to now give that universal church a name, we’d have to call it Catholic. So all in heaven are Catholic - no matter what they were called on earth.
 
Cephas and Sherlock,
Where in the bible or catechism does it say that there is a universal Catholic church in heaven? I was never told there was a catholic church in heaven. That’s not what I was taught. Another question is how does the Catechism define church? One can never become catholic after they die even if they are revealed the truth. Hence, the people in heaven are in the communion of saints along with those in purgatory and those in a state of grace on Earth. The people in heaven are in the communion of saints but not a church. Jesus instituted the church on earth to help us get to heaven.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
1053 “We believe that the multitude of those gathered around Jesus and Mary in Paradise forms the Church of heaven, where in eternal blessedness they see God as he is and where they are also, to various degrees, associated with the holy angels in the divine governance exercised by Christ in glory, by interceding for us and helping our weakness by their fraternal concern” (Paul VI, CPG § 29).

865 The Church is ultimately one, holy, catholic, and apostolic in her deepest and ultimate identity, because it is in her that “the Kingdom of heaven,” the “Reign of God,” 380 already exists and will be fulfilled at the end of time.

wait a sec…

Bones, u did try to any my question?

do that first…lol. 😃
 
Here it goes, so u dont have to look for it.
40.png
Cephas:
Question: All non CAtholics who make it to heaven…what will they believe in Heaven that would be different from let’s say…a Catholic? or even, what would they believe in heaven that is DIFFERENT from what the Catholic Church teached here on earth?

Bones?
Click to expand...
 
Cephas,

I recognize the communion between the church of heaven and earth. Sorry about that made a mistake there sorry. Actually you are right in saying that what non-catholic’s have been revealed is no different from what a catholic believes. There’s the answer to your question. Here’s one I’m struggling with, how can the church of heaven be catholic when not everyone is catholic but yet they all believe the same thing? See what I mean. Anyone’s help here would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Hey Bones,

Uhm…I think I get what ur saying…still alittle unclear but i’m figuring what ur trying to say.

What might help is these paragraphs from the CCC.

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. **Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.” **
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.

it IS NOT THEIR CURRENT belief that saves them…
It is the Mercy and Grace of God…and any invincible ignorance they may have to that which has been perfectly revealed by Jesus throught His Catholic Church.

that help Bones?
 
40.png
bones_IV:
Sherlock,
You lost the volley on the opening sentence. Salvation is not aimed at those who are ignorant of Christ and his church. You stated by saying “the pride and blindness that kept that person from seeing the truth of Christ’s Church will be stripped away” yes that is right. But it doesn’t mean they will then become catholic. To become Catholic literally and only means to be baptized and born again. They would then have to be become a member of the Church. This comes with repentance and therefore after death there is no repentance! You can’t convert to Catholicism after death. You very cleary overlooked that statement. Therefore Sherlock, your arguement “to say they will be Catholic” holds no ground.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
Click to expand...
They are memebers of the Church Triumphant, if they make it to heaven. Is the Chruch Triumphant not Catholic?
 
Rjmporter,

Thank you…yes, there is no “Church Triumphant” if there is no recognition of the Church in heaven. What sort or form of recognition that takes is not known to us, but recognition there is of some kind. Otherwise, the Buddhist or Muslim in heaven is…what, still left in the dark? Still Buddhist and Muslim? If we posit that those in heaven are where “in eternal blessedness they see God”, then they are in all Truth. And if the “Church Suffering” is a concept that one, as a Catholic, accepts, then the lack of recognition of the truth of the Catholic Church is one blindness that will be stripped away.

Bones,

I’ve said this before but it bears repeating: you are being very strict in your interpretation of “conversion” to the Catholic Church. No, I don’t think there will be RCIA course in heaven. The Church’s role as the ark of salvation can only apply in her earthly role—I think we can agree about that. But you seem to be taking me to task over a doctrine that doesn’t exist, namely, some black-and-white ruling about the nature of the Church Triumphant. I don’t know why you are doing so: I have never claimed that Buddhists, Muslims, or other non-Catholics cannot get to heaven. I have not claimed that only those who are formally, “legally” Catholics are in heaven. Yet, you have reacted as if I have said those things: what’s your beef? If you want to maintain that Buddhists remain Buddhists in heaven, then yes, we are in disagreement as to the nature of Truth (I don’t see how Truth can be relative). What is wrong with my position? Please explain…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top