Do Catholics ignore these scriptures?

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love4mary said:
I will be asked a question about my faith practice from Protestant friends (and not so friends) that I simply can’t answer. They point out bible verses to “back” up what their claims that Catholics don’t preach/teach/follow the Word of God. To be honest, this leaves me wondering and in a small way, even doubting what I believe. “Could they be right?” I will ask myself.

So I pick up scripture and read. I read more of St. Paul’s letters then I do the Gospels, I (and I am wrong for this–Note to self: read the Gospels more) am always amazed although I shouldn’t be, that my faith is strengthened and re-confirmed through my readings. Every doubt about the Catholic Church being the One-Holy-Catholic-Apostolic Church founded by Jesus on the Rock of Peter melt away.

I continue to thank Protestants (and they are well meaning and are truly concerned for my soul and may God shower His Graces on each of them) for challenging me, by pointing out in scripture what they believe to be unbiblical about the Catholic Church. I read what they point out to me, and always come away from it a Stronger Catholic.👍

So keep “nit-picking” certain “proof” verses against the Catholic Church, you challenge me to know my faith better that way and to read the bible more…Which is a good thing for Everyone to do. After all, it is Gods Written Word to us.

My one big prayer is that some day I will be able to articulate myself about my faith like so many posters here in the forum can. As a side note: I find myself kinda intimidated by the incredible knowledge of many posters here and their ability to express and defend the faith. :o But I have learned so much from all of you.👍
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Although it’s been a while since I have been truly stumped by a Protestant challenge (thank you, Karl Keating, Scott Hahn, and myself), one thing you can say when you personally do not know the Catholic response is:

*I don’t know the answer to that question. If you like, I will get you an answer [then you MUST follow up]. But I DO know that NOTHING the Catholic Church teaches contradicts Scripture. NOTHING. *
 
And Mercygate, a little bit of the writting from knowledgable Catholics such as yourself;)

You and others on this forum can take the writtings of the ECF’s and the CCC and “re-write” them and explain them in a way that is easier for me to understand.👍

Thanks for helping me grow in my faith understanding.
 
Rightlydivide said:
I did read it and I agree you spent a lot of time preparing it. You have a very good working knowledge of your faith and should be complimented on it
Part of the problem is I do not have 5 hours to respond to it! If there is a particular point that you would really like me to respond to, I would be happy to but I cannot respond to all of it…as you can surely understand!
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Yes, I understand. Sometimes I get carried away… :rolleyes:

1.At any rate, you said you know that Justin Martyr believed in the Real Presence, but I provided a list and an abundance of quotes that show that I could find one that did believe in a “symbolic Eucharist”.

2.My second point was that, backed up by numerous quotes from both pre- and post-Nicene Fathers, apostolic succession was understood and taught by the bishops and presbyters of the Church.

3.My other point was, that, Long before Purgatory was dogmatically defined (And I provided numerous quotes for this) it was already being promulgated and taught by Church leaders, believed in by the laity, etc, etc… It’s also helpful to keep in mind, that, when referring to “sins” expiated by Purgatory, Catholics actually mean the temporal effects or *temporal punishment *for that particular sin; not the actual sin, as that has already been forgiven at Calvary. So it in no way diminishes Christ’s work. 👍
  1. And, back to the beginning post, we were talking about the liturgy of the early Church, how it evolved from the synagogue and temple services and how it was centered around the holy Eucharist. And how, as shown in Revelation, the worship in Heaven (highly liturgical) we should utilize on Earth, for, would not God have perfect worship in Heaven, and, therefore, we should worship him the same way on Earth?
Whew… 🙂
 
Quote:
Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
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just wanted to put my two cents in. Alot of protestants i know use this verse to try to prove sola scriptura. just goes to show what a lack of education gets you. they read it as a command; you search the scriptures. but Jesus was actually saying was that their searching of scriptures was useless. That very Savior the Scriptures promised was standing right in front of them and they didn’t know it! Alot of good the Scriptures did them…
 
RD, why don’t you look deep inside and see what it means to honestly ‘rightly divide the Word of Truth’? I’m curious, do you follow the Bible literally and thoroughly? Because if you tell us we need to do what you say, but you can’t even do it; Jesus calls that hypocrisy. Do you subscribe to all the Mosaic dietary and sacrificial laws? Because they are in the Bible, and Jesus sure did follow them. Do you go to the Jewish temple on Jewish feast days? Because Jesus did, and the first Christians for decades did, too. After all, they still considered themselves to be fully Jewish. It was the Jews who eventually drove them out. The New Testament tells us that the first Christians sold what they had and gave everything to the Church (laid at the Apostles’ feet) so it could be equally divided among all. Have you done so?

You must understand that these questions are serious and are meant to help us understand what you actually believe. You tell us we should believe as you do. Well, we are trying to figure out what exactly you believe!
 
jfallaw said:
RD, why don’t you look deep inside and see what it means to honestly ‘rightly divide the Word of Truth’? I’m curious, do you follow the Bible literally and thoroughly?

Is the assumption that anyone who disagrees with Catholicism does not look “honestly” and “deeply”? Does that infer that people who disagree are dishonest and shallow? Of course that is what you are saying.
Because if you tell us we need to do what you say, but you can’t even do it; Jesus calls that hypocrisy.
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Jfallaw
Where the Mosiac laws and rituals in the temple for Jews or Gentiles?
Did Acts 15 deal with what
Gentiles must follow? What did James state Gentiles must do?
You want to make this about me instead of dealing with the text, which is not surprising because the text clearly answers your questions.
 
Well, in my experience, when Protestants try and throw out Scripture readings to try to intimidate Catholics, they don’t understand that Catholics are the most well versed in Scripture especially at the Holy Mass where there are several readings right from the Bible. I just go right into history, I also quote Scripture and they are the ones who are stumped. They try to use the Bible, for example one will say " Oh really, well in John 20:28 etc…" That is all they know. Protestants don’t really know about history, where they actually came from, like John Henry Newman said “To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant.”
Remember: The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgement, which denies the infallible authority of the church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. THIS IDEA IS REJECTED IN 2 PETER 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretion: “FIRST OF ALL YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS, THAT NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS A MATTER OF ONE’S OWN INTERPRETATION.”
The doctrine of private judgement has resulted in an enormous number of denominations. According to the Christian Sourcebook 'there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations with 270 ones being formed each year. Go figure.
 
Benedict16 said:
Well, in my experience, when Protestants try and throw out Scripture readings to try to intimidate Catholics, they don’t understand that Catholics are the most well versed in Scripture especially at the Holy Mass where there are several readings right from the Bible. I just go right into history, I also quote Scripture and they are the ones who are stumped. They try to use the Bible, for example one will say " Oh really, well in John 20:28 etc…" That is all they know. Protestants don’t really know about history, where they actually came from, like John Henry Newman said “To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant.”
Remember: The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgement, which denies the infallible authority of the church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. THIS IDEA IS REJECTED IN 2 PETER 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretion: “FIRST OF ALL YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS, THAT NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS A MATTER OF ONE’S OWN INTERPRETATION.”
The doctrine of private judgement has resulted in an enormous number of denominations. According to the Christian Sourcebook 'there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations with 270 ones being formed each year. Go figure.
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The prophecy of scripture deals with the writing of scripture, you should use the verse before the one you quoted.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Jfallaw
Where the Mosiac laws and rituals in the temple for Jews or Gentiles?
Did Acts 15 deal with what
Gentiles must follow? What did James state Gentiles must do?
You want to make this about me instead of dealing with the text, which is not surprising because the text clearly answers your questions.
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No it poses more questions, and for you to not realize that means that you don’t even know what it is you think you believe. You first claim that all you need is the Bible to know everything you need to know about how you should live your life. You claim that this has always been the case since Jesus ascended to heaven (in fact even before that, since He could see into the future! Although I fail to see why He would then claim that He doesn’t know when He will return, that only God the Father knows that). You further claim that only your own interpretation/understanding is that which is Spirit-led. That is fact because you stated that you do not listen to or believe any one man, because men can make mistakes. Well, I am trying to point out to you that the Bible refutes that kind of belief, and you are too blind to see it. Acts clearly tells us that Peter believed it necessary for Gentiles to follow the Law. Paul disagreed. If your viewpoint is valid, then the Bible is a liar. If all we needed was the Holy Spirit, as you claim the Bible claims, then there would be no need for the Apostolic meeting which defined the Church’s dogma on that issue, because there never would have been a disagreement in the first place!!!
 
jfallaw said:
No it poses more questions, and for you to not realize that means that you don’t even know what it is you think you believe.
You first claim that all you need is the Bible to know everything you need to know about how you should live your life
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.
Never said that, please quote me
You claim that this has always been the case since Jesus ascended to heaven
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Never said that, please quote me.
(in fact even before that, since He could see into the future! Although I fail to see why He would then claim that He doesn’t know when He will return, that only God the Father knows that). You further claim that only your own interpretation/understanding is that which is Spirit-led
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.

Never said that, please quote me.

You have ignored my questions I see. The simple fact is that Gentiles were not obligated to participate in Temple rituals and so the premise of the question is incorrect. Scripture clearly shows in Acts 15 the answer to your questions. You have to deal with the text.
What is the deal with saying all of these things I did not say?
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Benedict16 said:
Rightly, I think this verse is good enough! 👍
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2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
jfallaw said:
No it poses more questions, and for you to not realize that means that you don’t even know what it is you think you believe. You first claim that all you need is the Bible to know everything you need to know about how you should live your life. You claim that this has always been the case since Jesus ascended to heaven (in fact even before that, since He could see into the future! Although I fail to see why He would then claim that He doesn’t know when He will return, that only God the Father knows that). You further claim that only your own interpretation/understanding is that which is Spirit-led. That is fact because you stated that you do not listen to or believe any one man, because men can make mistakes. Well, I am trying to point out to you that the Bible refutes that kind of belief, and you are too blind to see it. Acts clearly tells us that Peter believed it necessary for Gentiles to follow the Law. Paul disagreed. If your viewpoint is valid, then the Bible is a liar. If all we needed was the Holy Spirit, as you claim the Bible claims, then there would be no need for the Apostolic meeting which defined the Church’s dogma on that issue, because there never would have been a disagreement in the first place!!!
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Oh and I notice you happened to avoid my question about selling all you own and holding it in common with other Christians. Also from Acts, remember? Why don’t you follow that clear Biblical teaching if it’s so important to you? Because dude, I sure do need a new car…
 
Rightlydivide said:
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

pretty words, but they help not one bit as far as proving sola scriptura

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

EXACTLY!!! EVERY PROTESTANT USES THIS VERSE AND YET THEY ALL INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY! THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
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EXACTLY!
 
jfallaw said:
Oh and I notice you happened to avoid my question about selling all you own and holding it in common with other Christians. Also from Acts, remember? Why don’t you follow that clear Biblical teaching if it’s so important to you? Because dude, I sure do need a new car…
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I just got called dude…
What is wrong with walking, Clovis is not that big!

Let us look at the verses that jfallaw claims I am ignoring

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Once again you have to look at scripture, the verse deals with making sure that everyone is taken care of and of course our church does that. I have sold possessions and goods to give money to the church. Not your church of course.
 
Rightlydivide said:
I just got called dude…
What is wrong with walking, Clovis is not that big!

Let us look at the verses that jfallaw claims I am ignoring

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Once again you have to look at scripture, the verse deals with making sure that everyone is taken care of and of course our church does that. I have sold possessions and goods to give money to the church. Not your church of course.
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Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Once again you have to look at scripture, the verse deals with making sure that everyone is taken care of and of course our church does that. I have sold possessions and goods to give money to the church. Not your church of course.

First of all, Jack, you need to stop telling me to look at Scripture. That’s just you being a jackass, plain and simple. We all have a Bible here, and read it often, smartass. The scriptures YOU quoted are VERY clear. Show me that you do the EXACT same thing and I will believe the nonsense you vomit out. Oh and when you say that you don’t give money to My church (of course!), you label yourself a liar again, because the SCRIPTURES you quoted clearly say to ALL men, as EVERY man had need. Now, I repeat… I sure could use a new car…
 
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