Do Catholics on this site accurately represent Catholicism

[Priscilla_Ann]

Sonny1954:
AmateurPianist,

No one here can speak for all Catholics. My experience with Catholic.com is that you are probably getting a accurate view of how a narrow, conserative wing of Catholics view non-Catholics. Catholics and Catholic thought and practice, however, are not uniform, i.e. we don’t all “spiritually look alike.”

No doubt you do sense a feeling of superiority by some of posters here toward Protestants, particularly. Moderate and progressive Catholics feel that same “heat” on this forum.

To answer your question specfically,** NO**, this forum does not represent the attitude of a cross-section of practicing Catholics toward any one of a number of subjects, particularly political and social issues. To ascertain that, I suggest you try one of the Catholic discussion sites on the internet.

Thank you, AmateurPianist, for your thoughtful question.

Excellent post! As you said, the Catholics who post on these forums are generally from the narrow, conservative wing of Catholics. They do not represent the majority of Catholics I know, especially with regard to political and social issues. Catholic attitudes on these forums of superiority toward non-Catholic Christians are also not typical of Catholics in general. Thank you, God!

 

[Vasian]

Over a lifetime, I can say with certainty that most Catholics cannot their own faith with a Bible. Most know next to nothing about what their Church teaches, and try to expect them to use a Bible is impossible.

On this website, only because its worldwide, there are Catholics that believe certain things, and think that they can back it up with a Bible.

I put up two other posts, and due to the sheer volume of responses, and I am only one person, I cannot answer every objection, due to the time that it would take.

However nothing that anyone else said has shaken my resolve in any way.

Its one thing to claim to have the right understanding, but then APPLYING IT is another matter.

Catholics go to war. That is an absolute fact.

They will at the commands of men, kill their own people in war, catholics killing catholic. When I say this, please, I am including mainstream religions. (protestants, baptists, mormons etc … in other words nearly ALL of them)

They will try to claim that they are the right religion.

In other words, their worship is in vain, because they will not OBEY the words of Jesus Christ. Matthew 7:21-23

Respresenting their church properly is rare.

In fact, even many priests of the Church do not even faithfully support the Bible even officially.

I saw a recent TV program, where an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW with a priest of your church, and he very much minimised the position of the Genesis account of creation. He in fact mocked the Bible account (or that is how the people would have heard it)

Who knows how accurate all of the stuff is on this website anyway!

Wow… More diatribe without substance, from Junior.

 

[graceandglory]

I do not mean as far as accurately presenting the doctrines and beliefs of Catholicism.

I mean in the sense of accurately representing the superior attitude that Catholics have in relationship to nonCatholics, specifically Protestants. Is that the attitude that Catholics as a whole generally have towards Non Catholics.

Let me ask this. SInce you are A/G. Were you raised A/G or did you have a born again experience? Most born-again Christians I know, who weren’t raised in the tradition they converted to… well, pretty much tick off their families. I know I did. I was always spouting scriptures at my siblings and parents. I just wanted them to get saved! I know that my same zeal for souls as an evangelical has never left me. I only wish all my protestant friends had the same calling and would become Catholic. I think the heart desire is for unity of belief of all Christians. It’s what I wanted when I was evangelical, and what I still want. I do believe Catholics want that unity much more than protestants do.

“I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name–the name you gave me–**so that they may be one as we are one.” ** John 17:11

 

[rev_kevin]

It seems to me that if you disagree with their teachings {the Catholic teachings} you are attacking their religion. Protestants have been told that they teach heresy, they are not one with God, the way they worship is not reverent enough, your pastors have no authority because its not condoned by the Catholic faith and so on. Now they {Catholics} have the right to defend their faith but when a Prostestant starts to defend their faith and beliefs they are all of a sudden against God and Scripture because its not what the Catholics believe. Now if a Catholic is wrong about what they say the rest will back him/her as if its the Protestants fault. I believe that both sides often go too far in defending their faith. But in my opinion the Catholics take it a bit too far which puts a bad taste in the mouths of Protestants about he Catholic faith.

 

[Vasian]

As one who has returned, it would seem that the Christian freedom that is allowed in the Church makes for some to be far more liberal in thought and actions than the scriptures and the Church allows.
These have been identified in this thread as those who are “liberal” on political and social issues.

Those that are in unity with scripture, i.e. abortion, etc. have been labeled in this thread as, “narrow, conservative Catholics”

Like it or not, it seems that if one is going to be endeavoring to be “Christ-like”, then one is going to be viewed as “conservative”.
I doubt Christ would promote and endorse funding for abortions. I doubt Christ would endorse taking care of those that have the ability to work. (2 Thess: 3:10)

Go figure…

 

[chaunceygardner]

no, it is an attitude certain Catholics seem to display toward other Catholics as well, and stems from the same source, pride and lack of charity, sins we all need to work on. You will find, anytime you encounter Catholics in groups, the same sins that abound in the rest of the world, but at least you will find us acknowleding our sins and failings, recognizing that they are harmful, and working on overcoming them through the grace of Christ. You will also find us asking forgiveness for them.

With specific regards to discussions on these forums, many of our members are very well-informed, some less so. Be that as it may, the general rule for internet forum discussions is that when a poster expresses an opinion or professes a belief that differs from your own, that constitutes a legitimate expression of ideas. It does not equate to a personal attack any anyone who holds a contrary position. It is wrong to interpret as personal animosity such an expression. That is the general rule. The specific rule for this, a Catholic forum, is that you should expect to find Catholic belief and practice correctly stated and defended. That also should be the stance of any non-Catholic who posts here on this specific forum about his own faith tradition.

Someone who turns such a discussion into a personal exchange needs to grow up and play by the rules.

Your very well put comments are appreciated, and clearly address the question. If only everyone on the forum would think and act that way!

A couple of points and questions on your second paragraph. You say that we “should expect to find Catholic belief and practice correctly stated and defended”. As anyone who reads through various threads knows, many Catholics can not correctly state Church doctrine, either because they do not know it or do not understand it. The same likely applies to posters from Protestant faiths but perhaps not to the same extent.

But what if a Catholic does know the doctrine but does not agree with it, and states something as their own belief or interpretation? The same with a Lutheran or Methodist who states something that doesn’t comply with the doctrines of their faith? We cannot assume they represent the teaching of that faith anymore than something a Catholic says can be assumed to represent the teaching of Catholicism. So we should expect to find not just repetition of static doctrines on this site, but also discussion about development of doctrine and new ideas about our faith(s), shouldn’t we?

A “legitimate expression of ideas” could include statements that may not be accepted by ANY recognized church but that are open to discussion. Growth in faith and understanding of God do not occur in a vacuum.

 

[po18guy]

Over a lifetime, I can say with certainty that most Catholics cannot their own faith with a Bible. Most know next to nothing about what their Church teaches, and try to expect them to use a Bible is impossible.

On this website, only because its worldwide, there are Catholics that believe certain things, and think that they can back it up with a Bible.

I put up two other posts, and due to the sheer volume of responses, and I am only one person, I cannot answer every objection, due to the time that it would take.

However nothing that anyone else said has shaken my resolve in any way.

Its one thing to claim to have the right understanding, but then APPLYING IT is another matter.

Catholics go to war. That is an absolute fact.

They will at the commands of men, kill their own people in war, catholics killing catholic. When I say this, please, I am including mainstream religions. (protestants, baptists, mormons etc … in other words nearly ALL of them)

They will try to claim that they are the right religion.

In other words, their worship is in vain, because they will not OBEY the words of Jesus Christ. Matthew 7:21-23

Respresenting their church properly is rare.

In fact, even many priests of the Church do not even faithfully support the Bible even officially.

I saw a recent TV program, where an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW with a priest of your church, and he very much minimised the position of the Genesis account of creation. He in fact mocked the Bible account (or that is how the people would have heard it)

Who knows how accurate all of the stuff is on this website anyway!

Might I humbly remind you of the rules which you agreed to when joining this forum? I perceive cynicism and perhaps even a slight bitterness in your response. Why?

 

[chris_molter]

To answer simply: no.

Catholics on CA, in general, take more time to study and be involved in their faith than your average run-of-the-mill Catholic (if there is such a thing).

There are a frikkin’ BILLION Catholics on Earth. You’re going to find it really really difficult to make any accurate stereotypes. Are we talking about US Catholics? Ok, are we talking about US Catholics who attend Mass weekly? Each of these narrower and narrower subgroups changes things considerably.

I would posit that CA Catholics would generally model the type who attend weekly Mass, are internet savvy, and spend at least some time outside of Mass either in Church activities or deepening their faith through other devotions or reading.

Personally, I think you’re conflating two things: the superior attitude some Catholics have towards non-Catholic religions and the fact that Catholicism itself makes absolute faith claims that Catholics must believe to be in full communion with the Church. The first is sadly common online, though not so much IRL (people tend to be more polite when they’re face to face). The second is just a fact of life.

 

[po18guy]

I do not mean as far as accurately presenting the doctrines and beliefs of Catholicism.

I mean in the sense of accurately representing the superior attitude that Catholics have in relationship to nonCatholics, specifically Protestants. Is that the attitude that Catholics as a whole generally have towards Non Catholics.

The written word is easily misunderstood. It has no emotion, no tenor, and lacks tonal inflection as compared with verbal interchange. Thus, the words you read, offered sincerely, often appear arrogant or dismissive. Were you to speak with us in person, your impression would be much more positive. Confidence is often mistaken for arrogance. Recall also that you are standing amongst a crowd here. There will always be unwarranted shouts in a crowd.

Consider also that what you read here as information is offered from a state of semi-shell shock. Christ’s Church has always suffered at the hands of the world, and for the past 490+ years, it has also had to defend itself against fellow Christians who have separated from her. Many “questions” that are directed at Catholics and the Catholic Church appear to us as accusations rather than inquiries. Some of them truly are accusations. Some of those are just ugly. Thus, many of us grow weary of the constant and multifarious attacks. Some of this weariness is unfortunately spent upon those with seeking hearts. We must, of necessity, spend more time on defense than we are called to spend on evangelization. This is a modern tragedy. In your charity, pray for us.

 

[rev_kevin]

Might I humbly remind you of the rules which you agreed to when joining this forum? I perceive cynicism and perhaps even a slight bitterness in your response. Why?

This is exactly what I’m talking about. If you say anything against the faith, your wrong and have no right to say that, but if its said about another faith its alright and nothing is said. Could he be right, I don’t know. Could he be wrong, I don’t know. But this is how he/she preceives it to be.

 

[izoid]

It seems to me that if you disagree with their teachings {the Catholic teachings} you are attacking their religion. Protestants have been told that they teach heresy, they are not one with God, the way they worship is not reverent enough, your pastors have no authority because its not condoned by the Catholic faith and so on. Now they {Catholics} have the right to defend their faith but when a Prostestant starts to defend their faith and beliefs they are all of a sudden against God and Scripture because its not what the Catholics believe. Now if a Catholic is wrong about what they say the rest will back him/her as if its the Protestants fault. I believe that both sides often go too far in defending their faith. But in my opinion the Catholics take it a bit too far which puts a bad taste in the mouths of Protestants about he Catholic faith.

What type of non-denom are you a part of? Are you more Calivinistic or Arminian?

 

[izoid]

As one who has returned, it would seem that the Christian freedom that is allowed in the Church makes for some to be far more liberal in thought and actions than the scriptures and the Church allows.
These have been identified in this thread as those who are “liberal” on political and social issues.

Those that are in unity with scripture, i.e. abortion, etc. have been labeled in this thread as, “narrow, conservative Catholics”

Like it or not, it seems that if one is going to be endeavoring to be “Christ-like”, then one is going to be viewed as “conservative”.
I doubt Christ would promote and endorse funding for abortions. I doubt Christ would endorse taking care of those that have the ability to work. (2 Thess: 3:10)

Go figure…

AMEN!

I also doubt that He, Christ, would vote for those that support such things either.

 

[izoid]

This is exactly what I’m talking about. If you say anything against the faith, your wrong and have no right to say that, but if its said about another faith its alright and nothing is said. Could he be right, I don’t know. Could he be wrong, I don’t know. But this is how he/she preceives it to be.

Trureligion has done nothing except “throw gas on the fire” since he/she has been here. I think ALL Christians should find his/her post offensive and out of line. One need not feel superior to see that.

 

[Vasian]

This is exactly what I’m talking about. If you say anything against the faith, **your **wrong and have no right to say that, but if its said about another faith its alright and nothing is said. Could he be right, I don’t know. Could he be wrong, I don’t know. But this is how he/she preceives it to be.

“you’re”

 

[rev_kevin]

What type of non-denom are you a part of? Are you more Calivinistic or Arminian?

To make things confusing as to my denomination, I am actually Baptist but I am a non-denominational preacher. Now the reason for this, and I have been critized for it many times here, is that I preach in nursing homes and there are many different religions there that want to hear the word of God so not to offend any religion, which I have been critized for this also, I preach in a general way. I do however tell the other religions to go by what your religion teaches you and believes in. I only preach what is in the Bible and try to avoid subjects that may offend or conflict with their beliefs. See I preach to people in their 80’s and 90’s and if I say anything they disagree with they will let me know in a quickness. So far I have not had one complaint about my preaching style from the residents, residents families, or the staff.
I hope this answers your question.

 

[wmscott]

I do not mean as far as accurately presenting the doctrines and beliefs of Catholicism.

I mean in the sense of accurately representing the superior attitude that Catholics have in relationship to nonCatholics, specifically Protestants. Is that the attitude that Catholics as a whole generally have towards Non Catholics.

Wow, this post was started to ask about the superior attitudes of Catholics towards Protestants, yet look how quick it was that Protestants went on the attack. Real Christian like isn’t it, seems like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Truereligion, OMG, it is called decaf buddy.

Now for those Protestants that truly want to know what the Catholic Church believes and teaches about you here it is. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements**."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation**, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

It really helps to have things put into perspective - we all are Christians

AmateurPianist, there are those here who will try to correct falsehoods only to be attacked in response. At that point, some of us will get defensive, I have been guilty of this in the past too, but it is because of the offensive responses and posts. I have tried to make a concretive effort to change my responses. If folks (Protestants) came here and actually asked a genuine question with all Christian charity, they would get a very different response. They do not have to agree or believe what was posted, but at least respect the other person’s right to believe the way they do.

Remember the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a home for saints.

 

[rev_kevin]

Trureligion has done nothing except “throw gas on the fire” since he/she has been here. I think ALL Christians should find his/her post offensive and out of line. One need not feel superior to see that.

Not to argue but I have been told the same thing if I disagree with the teachings of the Catholic faith. Now I admit I have not seen all his/her posts so I can not say if you or him/her is right. I only responded to what was written here. Now I did say that I don’t know which one is right, because I have not seen all his/her posts.

 

[Vasian]

Wow, this post was started to ask about the superior attitudes of Catholics towards Protestants, yet look how quick it was that Protestants went on the attack. Real Christian like isn’t it, seems like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Truereligion, OMG, it is called decaf buddy.

Now for those Protestants that truly want to know what the Catholic Church believes and teaches about you here it is. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements**."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation**, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

It really helps to have things put into perspective - we all are Christians

AmateurPianist, there are those here who will try to correct falsehoods only to be attacked in response. At that point, some of us will get defensive, I have been guilty of this in the past too, but it is because of the offensive responses and posts. I have tried to make a concretive effort to change my responses. If folks (Protestants) came here and actually asked a genuine question with all Christian charity, they would get a very different response. They do not have to agree or believe what was posted, but at least respect the other person’s right to believe the way they do.

Remember the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a home for saints.

“Repetition is the mother retention”
Thank you for that. I tend to forget how fine the Catechism is on such things

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I do not mean as far as accurately presenting the doctrines and beliefs of Catholicism.

I mean in the sense of accurately representing the superior attitude that Catholics have in relationship to nonCatholics, specifically Protestants. Is that the attitude that Catholics as a whole generally have towards Non Catholics.

I think converts to Catholicism are more zealous than lifelong Catholics, so I would guess that many of the posters here are converts.

I’m a convert, and I know I can be too aggressive occasionally.

However, I also believe that Catholicism is true, that it is the Church founded by Jesus, and that it absolutely is superior to protestantism.

 

[SD_Catholic]

It seems to me that if you disagree with their teachings {the Catholic teachings} you are attacking their religion. Protestants have been told that they teach heresy, they are not one with God, the way they worship is not reverent enough, your pastors have no authority because its not condoned by the Catholic faith and so on. Now they {Catholics} have the right to defend their faith but when a Prostestant starts to defend their faith and beliefs they are all of a sudden against God and Scripture because its not what the Catholics believe. Now if a Catholic is wrong about what they say the rest will back him/her as if its the Protestants fault. I believe that both sides often go too far in defending their faith. But in my opinion the Catholics take it a bit too far which puts a bad taste in the mouths of Protestants about he Catholic faith.

This is reality… I have never heard a negative thing spoken at a Catholic mass about another denomination or religion… NEVER!!! Can this be said of many of the baptist, non-denominational, independent, etc. services?.. I highly doubt it. In fact I never even realized so many people hated, and I mean hated, the CC until I joined this forum and seen some of it first hand. In all my years I had NEVER been taught anything negative about another denomination, until I was forced to do so in order to defend my own faith. So if you want to talk about putting a bad taste in someone’s mouth it mainly started for the CC with the reformation, and it started for me when I saw people calling the CC the “W of Babylon” or the pope the anti-Christ. I’ll bet most of the people on CA who defend the Church “too far” do it for similar reasons.

I’ll admit there are many that are very eager to defend their faith here, but what do you expect from a Catholic forum. If you want to look at the big picture, I think you’ll realize who is doing most of the attacking in the Catholic vs Protestant battle. If we weren’t being attacked so vigorously we wouldn’t have to defend so vigorously.

SD