Do Catholics teach and believe the Last Supper was propitiatory?

[alwayswill]

That’s a loaded question. You’re assuming that the sacrifice of Calvary and the Last Supper are two different things, but as many posters here have said, Catholic teaching is that they are one and the same act. So your question doesn’t make sense, and continuing to ask it won’t make us respond any differently.

I am assuming that one actually and effectually appeased the wrath of God.

If Pilate had released Jesus or He was hanged to death ( no shedding of blood)
were the events of the Last Supper sufficient to appease the wrath of God?

 

[alwayswill]

So you are saying if they put blood on their doorposts, but did not eat the Lamb as God commanded, he would still have passed over their houses. Can you show me where it says this?

vs 13
The blood on the houses will show me where you live, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you.

 

[Duane1966]

vs 13
The blood on the houses will show me where you live, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you.

Can you show me where God says He will pass over if they disobey His command to eat the lamb that had been sacrificed?

Why did God command them to eat the lamb, if the eating has nothing to do with the passing over?

 

[twf]

nope: its not like that.

The shedding of His Blood is propitiatory:

Was pouring of the wine at Last Supper propitiatory?

Did you see my post #7?

 

[Wesrock]

no : these passages did NOT say that Christ did not have to be eaten

the passages did say the the shedding of the blood is propitiatory (made an atoning Sacrifice; appeased the wrath of God)

This thread is about the Last Supper:
The Lamb as not been put to death:
was the eating of the bread at the Last Supper propitiatory?

Because it was one and the same offering as that on the cross, I would think so. It’s not something separate.

 

[alwayswill]

Did you see my post #7?

yep: it is a mystery

 

[alwayswill]

Can you show me where God says He will pass over if they disobey His command to eat the lamb that had been sacrificed?

Why did God command them to eat the lamb, if the eating has nothing to do with the passing over?

He also command them to do this:

“be dressed and ready to travel. Have your sandals on, carry your walking stick in your hand, and eat quickly”

Was having your sandals on also propitiatory?:

of course not.

There was one requirement from God in order for the Angel of Death to pass over.
The Lamb’s blood on the door:
“when I see the blood, I will pass over you”

 

[twf]

yep: it is a mystery

It is, as is the incarnation or the Trinity… but I did answer your earlier question. The cross was very much necessary for it is that one sacrifice of the cross that the Holy Spirit made present at the Last Supper and makes present at every Mass.

 

[Duane1966]

He also command them to do this:

“be dressed and ready to travel. Have your sandals on, carry your walking stick in your hand, and eat quickly”

Was having your sandals on also propitiatory?:

of course not.

There was one requirement from God in order for the Angel of Death to pass over.
The Lamb’s blood on the door:
“when I see the blood, I will pass over you”

Once again, you are not addressing the point that in the Old Covenant, the sacrificial lamb had to be eaten. Why? What was the import of eating the lamb? You seem to say: nothing.

Since you have stated that you believe Jesus was not eaten, than He did not fulfill the Old Law.

 

[John_Martin]

I know Catholics believe the Mass is propitiatory:

but what about the Last Supper?

Was the wrath of God appeased at the Last Supper?
Do Catholics teach and believe the Last Supper was propitiatory?

At the last supper, Jesus gave the disciples his body and blood to eat and to drink, so that when his father raised him, re-joined his soul and divinity to his dead body, he would do the same to his body and blood within the bodies of his disciples.

Eating the flesh of the Son of God and drinking his blood means you also now participate in the joining of his soul and divinity to his human flesh and blood which is now one with you, so his soul, his Spirit, dwell with you like your own soul is united to your body to make you alive; now you are participating in divine life, the Son in you, and in the Father, and as the Father is in the Son, so now also in you.

With the Lamb of the Passover, the angel passed by; with the Lamb of God within our bodies, God does not Passover us, but comes to fill us with life, he comes to dead ones (to us, who have eaten the body and blood) and fills the dead with life.

 

[Todd977]

The article on “Sacrifice of the Mass” in the Catholic Encyclopedia discusses the Last Supper. I don’t understand what it says but maybe you can make sense of it.

My two cents…
I don’t know what the Catholic Church teaches on the matter but, if the Mass is a re-presentation (made present again after the fact) of Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice on the cross, then perhaps the Last Supper was a pre-presentation (made present before the fact) of Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice on the cross. If Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is brought forward through time and space at Mass today, then perhaps Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was brought back through time and space at the Last Supper. In other words, perhaps when the bread and wine were transubstantiated into the body and blood Christ at the Last Supper, they were not transubstantiated into his then-present, pre-passion body and blood but into his future, post-passion body and blood.

If the Mass today is a re-presentation and the Last Supper the pre-presentation of Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice on the cross, then they are all the same propitiatory sacrifice simply made present at different times. Just as it is impossible to have a re-presentation of an event that never took place, it is impossible to have a pre-presentation of an event that never takes place.

 

[Cathoholic]

Alwayswill. You asked . . . .

Quote:

I know Catholics believe the Mass is propitiatory:

. . . . but what about the Last Supper?

YES The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is propitiatory.

The Mass was offered at The Last Supper and is thus propitiatory.

Sorry to be so brief. I’ll try to get back here soon if you need follow up (I’ll also try to give some follow up on the St. Augustine/Justification thread in the next couple days too).

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I believe the description that is missing here as it pertains to both the Last Supper and the local Mass is the biblical term Parousia, which is prescribed to this mystery.

One cannot repeat that which is eternal. The Mass is the Last Supper made present to every age in all times. When celebrated neither is repeated. God commands His body to celebrate or make present these mysteries in space and time, thus making the Mass or Last Supper Propitiatory by divine rite. Introduced in the Passover meal and fulfilled in the Mass or Last Supper. Thus, the Last Supper or Mass is divinely ordered by God, these mysteries are not man made.

Peace be with you

 

[alwayswill]

I believe the description that is missing here as it pertains to both the Last Supper and the local Mass is the biblical term Parousia, which is prescribed to this mystery.

One cannot repeat that which is eternal. The Mass is the Last Supper made present to every age in all times. When celebrated neither is repeated. God commands His body to celebrate or make present these mysteries in space and time, thus making the Mass or Last Supper Propitiatory by divine rite. Introduced in the Passover meal and fulfilled in the Mass or Last Supper. Thus, the Last Supper or Mass is divinely ordered by God, these mysteries are not man made.

Peace be with you

if Mass was not celebrated; would God’s wrath become un-appeased.

would the propitiation that was accomplished on the Cross be undone?

 

[John_Martin]

Mass is about Jesus granting the current generation to be at the table and eat his body and blood; we cannot get these into our system by genetic inheritance from our parents back to the apostles, since what you eat does not change your genetic structure.

Mass is not a ritual we perform, but it is a participation in the knowing of God; when we are knowing “This is my body…; this is the chalice of my blood…” we are not alone knowing this = Jesus is knowing “This is my body…; this is the chalice of my blood…” and knowing his being at the last supper. It is one moment, and we are all (Jesus, the disciples, all at Mass through the ages, and us, - we are all in that one knowing of God. We do not consume Christ multiple times, every week; we consume him once, at the last supper; each week we trek back to that one knowing, that one eating and drinking, with Jesus, with the apostles, with the communion of saints.

The question of “If Mass were not celebrated…?” is a question from an outsider who does not know that the Church is a hierarchy of servants who obey their Master, Jesus, who commanded the return to the knowing of this One Passover which Jesus desired with exceeding desire to eat with us. There is no “If” concerning the Mass, because Jesus knows that moment eternally and he is in us in his knowing.

 

[Duane1966]

Ex12
6 Each family must take care of its animal until the evening of the fourteenth day of the month, when the animals are to be killed. 7 Some of the blood must be put on the two doorposts and above the door of each house where the animals are to be eaten. 8 That night the animals are to be roasted and eaten, together with bitter herbs and thin bread made without yeast. 9 Don’t eat the meat raw or boiled. The entire animal, including its head, legs, and insides, must be roasted. 10 Eat what you want that night, and the next morning burn whatever is left. 11 When you eat the meal, be dressed and ready to travel. Have your sandals on, carry your walking stick in your hand, and eat quickly. This is the Passover Festival in honor of me, your Lord.

12 That same night I will pass through Egypt and kill the first-born son in every family and the first-born male of all animals. I am the Lord, and I will punish the gods of Egypt. 13 The blood on the houses will show me where you live, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. Then you won’t be bothered by the terrible disasters I will bring on Egypt.

The Angel of Death passes over the house because they were “under” the blood;
not because of what they were going to eat later.

They were safe the very moment the blood was placed over the door way .

so was the wrath of God appeased at the very moment the wine was poured: or Christ blood/life was poured out on the Cross?

So you are saying if they had not eaten the lamb, as God commanded, even though the blood was on the doorway, their first-born child was safe?

 

[Reepicheep]

was that a “yes”?
Was the wrath of God appeased at the Last Supper?
Do Catholics teach and believe the Last Supper was propitiatory?

“If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema.”
(Trent: On the Sacrifice of the Mass: Canon 3)

So yes. The Mass is propitiatory, and the Last Supper was the First Mass.

 

[Reepicheep]

if Mass was not celebrated; would God’s wrath become un-appeased.

would the propitiation that was accomplished on the Cross be undone?

Jesus offered one sacrifice once for all. In the Mass this sacrifice is re-presented (presented again) to us so that we may take part. His sacrifice would still be propitiatory even if nobody came to Mass. His wrath would not be un-appeased if we failed to attend.

Nothing any mortal can do would ‘undo’ Christ’s sacrifice.

That being said, He commands that we come to Mass, and I, a believer, would be guilty of sin if I refused to come.

 

[rcwitness]

I am assuming that one actually and effectually appeased the wrath of God.

If Pilate had released Jesus or He was hanged to death ( no shedding of blood)
were the events of the Last Supper sufficient to appease the wrath of God?

Jesus knew what was going to happen. He already told them what was going to happen.

Matt. 16
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

You are asking if Jesus would have been wrong? Or if He did not need to die? That’s not a reasonable question.

Partaking of His sacrifice in His Body and Blood is how we keep ourselves in Him and He in us. It is just like the Israelites when they were sustained by the Manna in the wilderness.

You are mixing things up, and so your question shows a misunderstanding. Jesus’s flesh and blood accomplished Reconciliation with God and man. He did this through suffering many hardships, including the ultimate necessary death.

It’s like me asking you, when did Jesus become our savior, when He died? The Sacraments pour out from His bodily Person. His bodily Person is one with the Spirit.

The Last Supper was a paricipation in His Holy body and blood, which would merit the forgiveness of sins. When Jesus told people their sins were forgiven them, when we’re they forgiven them? Did He mean they aren’t yet? Did it mean they didn’t need Baptism or to participate in Communion?

The Sacraments are the obedience, on our part, of belief in Jesus and His commands. Do you remember when Peter tried to refuse Jesus from washing His feet?

Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part in me.”

Did Jesus mean at that moment only? Or did that moment mean more than just that moment?

 

[rcwitness]

if Mass was not celebrated; would God’s wrath become un-appeased.

would the propitiation that was accomplished on the Cross be undone?

Mass is celebrated because Jesus took the wrath of God upon His flesh and blood.

If you forget what God has done for you, does what He did become undone? Your questions are not reasonable.