Do Catholics worship the Eucharist?

[DorianGregorian]

I don’t know why you would find this insulting? The pagan living in the hut I’m referring to is Aristotle, a non-Christian who invented the term. If your insulted by this than I apologize, but I can’t understand why. Also transubstantiation is a man made term, it nowhere appears in Scripture.

Point 1) Agree.

Point 2) I agree, there was a one-time Sacrifice that can never be repeated (Hebrews). In fact (one of) the last words of Jesus is “It is finished.” There you go, the Sacrifice was completed at the Cross, once and for all.

Point 3) I agree with the apostolic doctrine of the Real Presence, I reject the Philosophical view of Aristotle and Medievalists who complicated a concept that was never touched by the Orthodox Church. Jesus said “This is my body.” Who would doubt that? But he did not say “Make this into my body.”

As far as the term transmutation, it is a term that comes out of Alchemy (chemistry before chemistry) and is a different term from transubstantiation.

Also the Catholic Mass is not understood as being present at the Last Supper (which according to Catholic doctrine was a prelude to the Sacrifice of the Cross) the Catholic Mass is understood as being present at Cavalry.

 

[Janet1983]

“We must worship the Eucharist. In worshipping the Eucharist, we are not worshipping a piece of bread or a cup of wine. In worshipping the Eucharist we are not sinning; we are not committing idolatry. Idolatry is when you worship something or someone who is not God. The Eucharist is God. On the contrary, it is, as St. Augustine proclaimed, a sin not to adore. Receiving Communion presupposes a disposition of adoration and worship”.
…
How many of Catholics believe this is OK?

I am just very surprised at this- I didn’t realize that you were actually worshipping what we see as the Bread and Wine after consecration. The way the piece was written it was almost as if it was **a new idea **being brought out.

Do all Catholic know this? I thought you might simply adore Christ in the Bread and Wine the way you do Mary. Not that Catholics adore the statutes of Mary.

Well Catholics believe that the Eucharist literally and physically is the Body of Christ.
It seems natural that they then go ahead and worship the Eucharist if they believe they are indeed worshiping God when they are doing it.

 

[JonNC]

Before Lutherans and Catholics get too carried away on this thread about differences in the expression of the Real Presence, I have found the following a good read.

prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_eucharist.html

A snippet here:

48.Catholic and Lutheran Christians together confess the real and true presence of the Lord in the Eucharist. There are differences, however, in theological statements on the mode and therefore duration of the real presence.

49.In order to confess the reality of the eucharistic presence without reserve the Catholic Church teaches that "Christ whole and entire"34 becomes present through the transformation of the whole substance of the bread and the wine into the substance of the body and blood of Christ while the empirically accessible appearances of bread and wine (accidentia) continue to exist unchanged. This “wonderful and singular change” is “most aptly” called transsubstantiation by the Catholic Church.35 This terminology has widely been considered by Lutherans as an attempt rationalistically to explain the mystery of Christ’s presence in the sacrament; further, many suppose also that in this approach the present Lord is not seen as a person and naturalistic misunderstandings become easy.

50.The Lutherans have given expression to the reality of the Eucharistic presence by speaking of presence of Christ’s body and blood in, with and under bread and wine�but not of transsubstantiation. Here they see real analogy to the Lord’s incarnation: as God and man become one in Jesus Christ, Christ’s body and blood, on the one hand, and the bread and wine, on the other, give rise to a sacramental unity. Catholics, in turn, find that this does not do sufficient justice to this very unity and to the force of Christ’s word “This is my body”.

51.***The ecumenical discussion has shown that these two positions must no longer be regarded as opposed in a way that leads to separation. ***The Lutheran tradition agrees with the Catholic tradition that the consecrated elements do not simply remain bread and wine but by the power of the creative Word are bestowed as the body and blood of Christ. In this sense it also could occasionally speak, as does the Greek tradition of a “change”.36 The concept of transsubstantiation for its part is intended as a confession and preservation of the mystery character of the Eucharistic presence; it is not intended as an explanation of how this change occurs37 (see the appendices on “Real Presence” and “Christ’s Presence in the Eucharist”).

It appears that Catholic and Lutheran theologians recognize the closeness in our understanding of the Eucharist in a way we the laity do not. Perhaps we should trust our leaders.

As to the OP, I would contend that Lutherans do / ought to show adoration the His true and substantial body and blood, during the sacramental act. How many of us (Lutherans) kneel during the consecration? How many of us kneel to receive? This is adoration, and it is appropriate.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

I would like to hear from other Luteran,s on this

Lutherans reject the term and notion of consubstantiation. The best Lutheran expression of the real presence is in the Apology of the Augsburg Confession:

The Tenth Article has been approved, in which **we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. **This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh.

Lutherans often speak of Sacramental Union, where we express the Eucharist as the body and blood coming to us “in, with, and under” the the bread and wine, but we make no doctrinal statment (that I know of) as to the disposition of the physical elements of the bread and wine, because Christ did not explain it. He simply placed His and on the bread and said, “This is my body”. This we fervently believe and defend. "Is is is!"

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=schaick;6425271]Do all Catholic know this? I thought you might simply adore Christ in the Bread and Wine the way you do Mary. Not that Catholics adore the statutes of Mary.

I would simply point out that veneration of Mary is in no was the same as adoration.

Can you show me in the Bible where it says to worship the Eucharist? If it isn’t in the Bible can you show me how this tradition was pasted down through the ages starting with Peter.

Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, and we are to worship our resurrected savior. Seems scripture is clear on this. This is not to ignore the fact that all Christians should recognize Christ’s intent in the supper, and that is to eat and drink.

Jon

 

[Soutane]

“Also the Catholic Mass is not understood as being present at the Last Supper (which according to Catholic doctrine was a prelude to the Sacrifice of the Cross) the Catholic Mass is understood as being present at Cavalry.” Perhaps by you.
We are simultaneously at the Last Supper,Golgotha,and the wedding feast of heaven.

 

[Soutane]

Well Catholics believe that the Eucharist literally and physically is the Body of Christ.
It seems natural that they then go ahead and worship the Eucharist if they believe they are indeed worshiping God when they are doing it.

Thank you Janet.

 

[Soutane]

Thank you JonNC for your erudite explanation.

 

[schaick]

1. By remembering and proclaiming you are indeed worshiping.
2. To re-member is more than to simply re-mind. We re-member the day and the act and the man, and we do so by keeping his commandment to truly eat his body and drink his blood, lest we have no life in ourselves.
3. The Ark of the Old Covenant contained 3 things: the tables of the 10 commandments, the staff and the manna which came down from heaven. If that manna which only served to feed the body was worthy of permanent remembrance, religious respect and adoration, and occupied the holiest place inside the holiest temple of the Jews, then how much more would the true manna from heaven, which gives eternal life, be worthy of our respect and adoration? Moses never said God was in the manna; however, Jesus himself says that he is in the Eucharist.

I think it is important that we all remember what remember literally means . When we do that, the logic of Eucharistic Adoration becomes plainly obvious.

We do things in memory of people all the time. Walk in a marathon, donate money in remembrance of a long lost family member- it is not worship of that person.

I am seeing a confusing of terms. Catholics say -my friends and on this forum, “Catholics adore Mary, we do not worship her”.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

I am seeing a confusing of terms. Catholics say -my friends and on this forum, “Catholics adore Mary, we do not worship her”.

Schaick,

Are you sure that is what you mean? I did a google search on this forum for “adore Mary” and didn’t get any hits except those saying we don’t adore Mary (and one who used adore in an emotional sense).

Maybe you meant to say that Catholics on this forum and elsewhere say “Catholics worship Mary, we do not adore her.” That is unlikely, though, because “worship” is rarely used that way anymore. It isn’t incorrect though. Worship can mean adore, but this is given to God alone, and worship can mean honor or venerate, and this is given to Mary and the saints.

Again, are you sure you’ve seen Catholic adore Mary but not worship her?

VC

 

[schaick]

I would simply point out that veneration of Mary is in no was the same as adoration.

Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, and we are to worship our resurrected savior. Seems scripture is clear on this. This is not to ignore the fact that all Christians should recognize Christ’s intent in the supper, and that is to eat and drink.

Jon

So are Catholics using the wrong term in saying they adore Mary?

ven·er·ate –verb (used with object),-at·ed, -at·ing.
to regard or treat with reverence; revere.

a·dore   –verb (used with object)
1.to regard with the utmost esteem, love, and respect; honor.
2.to pay divine honor to; worship: to adore God.
3.to like or admire very much: I simply adore the way your hair is done!

Jesus is everywhere, not only in the bread and wine-but HIS real presence in these sustances allows us to consume HIM.

 

[schaick]

Schaick,

Are you sure that is what you mean? I did a google search on this forum for “adore Mary” and didn’t get any hits except those saying we don’t adore Mary (and one who used adore in an emotional sense).

Maybe you meant to say that Catholics on this forum and elsewhere say “Catholics worship Mary, we do not adore her.” That is unlikely, though, because “worship” is rarely used that way anymore. It isn’t incorrect though. Worship can mean adore, but this is given to God alone, and worship can mean honor or venerate, and this is given to Mary and the saints.

Again, are you sure you’ve seen Catholic adore Mary but not worship her?

VC

Yes I did the same. There is no adoration of Mary and Catholics are adamant about not worshipping Mary.

Maybe the person was using the term loosly as in I adore your hair. LOL! No one worships hair!!

Meaning I love Mary!

Thank you!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

So are Catholics using the wrong term in saying they adore Mary?

Yes, Catholics *would *be. But are Catholics doing so? I don’t understand. . . do you have examples here or personal experience where a Catholic said they adore Mary?

Let’s just recap:

• Catholics can worship God, Mary, and the saints.
• Catholics worship God alone with adoration.
• Catholics worship the Eucharist, since the Eucharist is God
• Catholics can worship Mary and the saints with veneration (but usually the word used is not “worship” since people get confused" between this type of worship and the worship of God (adoration)).

That help?

VC

 

[schaick]

OK back to the topic at hand:

Do Catholics know when the Bread and Wine become Jesus’ Body and Blood?

;

 

[Cinette]

At the Last Supper, where the Eucharist was instituted, Jesus spoke the words of consecration. This is my body…, This is my blood…
At no time did he indicate that it was a metaphor or parable, so yes, the Consecrated bread and wine, (Body and Blood) are truly Jesus, and worthy of worship.

As far as who is the Catholic News Agency. You can research yourself quite easily by going to their website and clicking on the “about us” link in the upper right hand corner.

twopekinguys!

Does this mean that you are two friends? If you are one you cannot be both Catholic and Protestant. It would be like saying you are both night and day, black and white?
Cinette/FONT]/COLOR

 

[schaick]

Yes, Catholics *would *be. But are Catholics doing so? I don’t understand. . . do you have examples here or personal experience where a Catholic said they adore Mary?

Let’s just recap:

• Catholics can worship God, Mary, and the saints.
• Catholics worship God alone with adoration.
• Catholics worship the Eucharist, since the Eucharist is God
• Catholics can worship Mary and the saints with veneration (but usually the word used is not “worship” since people get confused" between this type of worship and the worship of God (adoration)).

That help?

VC

LOL! No!

See my post just above yours.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6429308&postcount=51

 

[Zundrah]

Yes I worship the Eucharist. God said it is Him and I believe it.

This is the best way to explain why we feel the way we do. Jesus told us. We obeyed.

 

[Zundrah]

twopekinguys!

Does this mean that you are two friends? If you are one you cannot be both Catholic and Protestant. It would be like saying you are both night and day, black and white?
Cinette/FONT]

It is two guys. I spoke to them before once. One Catholic and one protestant (either that or he is playing games).

 

[Verbum_Caro]

OK back to the topic at hand:

Do Catholics know when the Bread and Wine become Jesus’ Body and Blood?

Here’s the Catholic Catechism:
1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist.
VC

P.S. Shaick, I still don’t understand your thought process regarding worship/adore/venerate in relation to the Mary. You said that Catholics say they adore Mary. But, I’ve never seen any Catholic do so. Perhaps you can show us where/when that happened?

There isn’t any confusion about the term “adore”. It means an act by which God alone is recognized as worthy of supreme honor in His infinite majesty. Thus Catholics adore Christ present in the Eucharist. Worship means acknowledging another’s worth or dignity. In a secular settings it is used to designate a high office, for instance calling a magistrate “Your worship” in the United Kingdom. In religious settings worship likewise means acknowledging another’s worth or dignity. Thus worship of God is adoration. Worship of Mary or the saints is veneration. Adoration and veneration are farther apart from each other than ice cream and an anvil.

But, after that long-winded PS, I’ll let it go so you can move on with your thread.

 

[schaick]

Here’s the Catholic Catechism:
1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist.
VC

P.S. Shaick, I still don’t understand your thought process regarding worship/adore/venerate in relation to the Mary. You said that Catholics say they adore Mary. But, I’ve never seen any Catholic do so. Perhaps you can show us where/when that happened?

There isn’t any confusion about the term “adore”. It means an act by which God alone is recognized as worthy of supreme honor in His infinite majesty. Thus Catholics adore Christ present in the Eucharist. Worship means acknowledging another’s worth or dignity. In a secular settings it is used to designate a high office, for instance calling a magistrate “Your worship” in the United Kingdom. In religious settings worship likewise means acknowledging another’s worth or dignity. Thus worship of God is adoration. Worship of Mary or the saints is veneration. Adoration and veneration are farther apart from each other than ice cream and an anvil.

But, after that long-winded PS, I’ll let it go so you can move on with your thread.

I understand that Mary is never adored by Catholics in the sense of worshippng her.

Simply loved.

I adore my children - I don’t worship them- I love them as in the red definition.

a·dore   –verb (used with object)
**1.to regard with the utmost esteem, love, and respect; honor.
2.to pay divine honor to; worship: to adore God.
3.to like or admire very much: I simply adore the way your hair is done! **