Do Catholics worship with Muslims?

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I read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1, Paragraph 841 that: Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.”
I have only seen information pertaining to Muslims, because I am not a Muslim. But the info I have says that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, nor do they agree in the deity of Jesus Christ.
This confuses me, because how can one God be a trinity and not be a trinity at the same time? I have barely understood the doctrine of the trinity in the past, and now this. What Gives?
Lightsalt
 
Muslims worship the same God as Catholics in the same sense that Jews do. I don’t think Jews buy the idea of the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus either. If you ask, do Catholics worship the God of the Jews, then they will answer yes. Likewise, if you ask a Muslim if they worship the same God as Christians and Jews, they will say yes. We take them at their word, even as they say we both have it wrong. Please note that the Catechism has never said that Muslims have it completely right, it just says that they have part of it right, and that they don’t worship an entirely different guy like Ra or Odin or whatever… although I have heard some people argue that everyone worships the same god… and that’s an entirely different thing. Did that help?
 
Islam started as a heresy. It’s Catholicism, with lots of things changed around or taken out or added. So in essence, the God they worship is our God, but they don’t understand Him, worship Him in a way He never intended, and practice things He would not approve of.

That’s what that paragraph means.
 
The origins of Islam are murky, let us not nail it down, as though it were clear.

God is Reality: Reality has all his attributes, and all rely on Reality, and Reality “thinks” as real or illusively as we do. Religion is the pursuing of the truth about him, to conform the self to him: in that sense, we all “Worship” God, for we all desire to mimic his traits, those who know him more, are more perfect, the Muslims are more perfect worshipers of God, than many others: but do not have the aid, not greater assurance of the One Tue, single, all-encompassing church, and sacramental life, as we do. All worship God whether explicitly, or implicitly!

Marc
 
It is usually said that Muslims, as well as Jews, do not have the fullness of the understanding of God. Catholicism understands God in the form of the mystery of the Holy Trinity, being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So, in effect, Muslims and Jews only see one side of a three-sided coin.
 
I think that we are allowed to pray with Muslims at some sort of ecumenical event, as well as with Jews

The Muslims accept the first 5 books of the Torah , and this is the basis for worshiping God the Father
 
The origins of Islam are murky, let us not nail it down, as though it were clear.

God is Reality: Reality has all his attributes, and all rely on Reality, and Reality “thinks” as real or illusively as we do. Religion is the pursuing of the truth about him, to conform the self to him: in that sense, we all “Worship” God, for we all desire to mimic his traits, those who know him more, are more perfect, the Muslims are more perfect worshipers of God, than many others: but do not have the aid, not greater assurance of the One Tue, single, all-encompassing church, and sacramental life, as we do. All worship God whether explicitly, or implicitly!

Marc
I don’t think that this would pass muster as orthodox Catholic thought, especially this: "Religion is the pursuing of the truth about him, to conform the self to him: in that sense, we all “Worship” God, for we all desire to mimic his traits, those who know him more, are more perfect…"

I’ve never read such as this in anything regarding what the Church believes.
 
I don’t think that this would pass muster as orthodox Catholic thought, especially this: "Religion is the pursuing of the truth about him, to conform the self to him: in that sense, we all “Worship” God, for we all desire to mimic his traits, those who know him more, are more perfect…"

I’ve never read such as this in anything regarding what the Church believes.
That’s sort of like a Vat II document; with some work it can be read in the light of Tradition, but it’s pretty vague, and sounds as if it leans towards modernism, 😛
 
It is usually said that Muslims, as well as Jews, do not have the fullness of the understanding of God. Catholicism understands God in the form of the mystery of the Holy Trinity, being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So, in effect, Muslims and Jews only see one side of a three-sided coin.
This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not believe in the same God. There is no three sided coin with which muslims and catholics share a common facade

If the Catholic Church is stating in CCC paragraph 841 (see below), in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that there are those within the Muslim community who may find salvation by becoming Christians and not remaining Muslims, then I would agree. But, it does not appear to be saying this.

What is disturbing is the statement that “together with us the Muslims adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” So, Catholics and Muslims both “adore the one, merciful God.” It would seem to me that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.

Islam acknowledges that it serves the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But in so doing it is stating that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were Muslims! Furthermore, Islam denies that God is a Trinity. Jesus Christ is a prophet, yes. He is the false prphet that comes to set up the coming of the antichrist, according to Islam teaching. Here is more:

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” (Quran 5:73, Yusuf Ali).

“They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve,” (Quran 5:73, Pickthal).

It becomes obvious then, that the Muslims do not adore the one true merciful God because they serve a false god. They deny the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Quite simply, they deny the true God and are not capable of adoring the true God as long as they hold to the false teachings of Islam. Therefore the following paragraph in the CCC cannot be correct.
Code:
"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." (CCC, 841).
So as I see it, the RCC and Muslims alike are pronouncing anathema upon each other for worshiping the wrong god, yet the RCC is saying that they are worshipping the same God.

lightsalt
 
This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not believe in the same God. There is no three sided coin with which muslims and catholics share a common facade
Wrong. Jews, Muslims and Catholics worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Catholics have the fullness of Truth that the “word was made flesh and dwelt among us” while Jews and Muslims reject this. So, they believe in one aspect of God but lack the fullness of understanding which includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As I said before, they see one side of a three-sided coin.
What is disturbing is the statement that “together with us the Muslims adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” So, Catholics and Muslims both “adore the one, merciful God.” It would seem to me that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.
Perhaps YOU have a faulty understanding of the teachings of the Church, huh?
 
Wrong. Jews, Muslims and Catholics worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Catholics have the fullness of Truth that the “word was made flesh and dwelt among us” while Jews and Muslims reject this. So, they believe in one aspect of God but lack the fullness of understanding which includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As I said before, they see one side of a three-sided coin.

Perhaps YOU have a faulty understanding of the teachings of the Church, huh?
Hello, Tim.

I am sorry but I am here to help, and for no other reason.
You are placing the Jews in the same boat as Muslims which is not an accurate view.

You see, God initiated the everlasting covenant with Abraham, the father of the Jews. (Gen 12:3) This covenant still stands. There still are, however, conditional blessings that are based upon obedience.

The Jews do not accept that Jesus is the Messiah because their eyes have been blinded due to disbelief. This is God’s will, and His chosen people are still waiting for their Messiah. They will know their Messiah at the second coming when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

Christians on the other hand, have received their Messiah, and have full assurance of their salvation, and of their inheritance.

This is what separates the Jews from the Christians, but it is not accurate to use this reason as a common bond between Jews and Muslims.
Being a monotheist does not qualify as worshiping the true God.
The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the prophets.

But,the hard evidence demonstrates that the god ‘Allah’ was a pagan deity.

Actually, the symbol of the crescent moon and star that the Muslims use shows us that they worship the ‘moon-god’ Allah. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the moon-god throughout the Middle East, from the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile. The most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the moon-god.

It is true that Muslims are children of Abraham. They are the illegitimate offspring of Abraham and Sara’s handmaiden, Hagar.

Yet to claim that they worship the same God, because they are monotheists is unsustainable from a biblical perspective. First, the apostle James observed that even the demons are monotheists (James 2:19–20)—that certainly doesn’t mean they worship the true God!

Muslims do not believe in the Covenantal God of Abraham, but in the pagan deity, Allah, the moon-god. This is worship of the creation and not of the Creator.
I do not have a faulty understanding of the teachings of the church, (huh?) -because what I wrote was actually quoted from the church, out of the CCC.

The fullness of truth is plain as day, and as clear as the Son-shine.

Lord’s blessings to you, brother Tim

lightsalt

PS. It is a very interesting story about how God sent Joshua into Jericho, to wipe out the pagans and take possession of the land.
Rahab said “I know that the LORD has given you the land…for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.”
This was how her life was spared, and that of her family. Rahab was living in a pagan land but her faith in the one true God saved her life and the lives of her father’s household.

This is an exciting parallel of the New Testament within the Old Testament as she was told to tie the cord of scarlet thread in the window, which pictures to us how we are saved from certain death by the scarlet Blood of Jesus.
 
I read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1, Paragraph 841 that: Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.”
I have only seen information pertaining to Muslims, because I am not a Muslim. But the info I have says that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, nor do they agree in the deity of Jesus Christ.
This confuses me, because how can one God be a trinity and not be a trinity at the same time? I have barely understood the doctrine of the trinity in the past, and now this. What Gives?
Lightsalt
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm
The Catechism of the Council of Trent

Nothing in Teaching has changed. Trent’s will be faaaaar clearer, without the vague language about which to be concerned.
 
I read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1, Paragraph 841 that: Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.”
I have only seen information pertaining to Muslims, because I am not a Muslim. But the info I have says that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, nor do they agree in the deity of Jesus Christ.
This confuses me, because how can one God be a trinity and not be a trinity at the same time? I have barely understood the doctrine of the trinity in the past, and now this. What Gives?
Lightsalt
JL: I think Paul put it well; [Acts17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.] The point is, they worship the true God, ignorantly, their knowledge and understanding of him is way off.

By the way is your faith group one of Calvary Chapel Outreach?
 
JL: I think Paul put it well; [Acts17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.] The point is, they worshiped the true God, ignorantly, their knowledge and understanding of him is way off.
Are you saying that Muslims worship an unknown God? But Muslims have a name for their god.

The truth is they worship the moon-god Allah. This is a pagan deity.

lightsalt
 
Are you saying that Muslims worship an unknown God? But Muslims have a name for their god.

The truth is they worship the moon-god Allah. This is a pagan deity.

lightsalt
JL: If you ask a muslim if they worship the moon-god, will they say yes? or I worship the ture God. Just as Paul says, they worship the true God, although ingnorant of who he really is. You do belong to a Calvary Outreach group, don’t you?
 
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm
The Catechism of the Council of Trent

Nothing in Teaching has changed. Trent’s will be faaaaar clearer, without the vague language about which to be concerned.
OK , thank you for the site. I went there and it does nothing to explain why the RCC church claims to be worshiping the same god as Muslims, who worship the pagan deity, Allah.

Are you in agreement with the church?

lightsalt
 
JL: If you ask a muslim if they worship the moon-god, will they say yes? or I worship the ture God. Just as Paul says, they worship the true God, although ingnorant of who he really is. You do belong to a Calvary Outreach group, don’t you?
Sorry, I never heard of a Calvary Outreach Group. I think you might be answering your own questions out of pre-suppositions.

Let me suggest an example to you to bring what you are saying to light.:
There is only one President of the United States. We could say that everyone who believes this is a mono-executivist.
Now virtually all of us understand that Obama is the current President. But someone could insist that, “No, Huckabee is the true President of the U.S, and therefore I honor and treat him as such.”
No one would say that from the mere fact that we’re all mono-executivists, it therefore follows that the statement “we all honor the same true President” applies to those who honor Obama and those who honor Huckabee.

When Paul mentions the worship of an unknown God, was he referring to Muslims? Or was he referring to all who worship every pagan deity?

In Mohhamed’s time, there were over 300 pagan deities and Mohhamed chose the moon-god, Allah, as the one true god. This is not referring to the honor bestowed upon a God that deserved worship but was un-named.

lightsalt
 
OK , thank you for the site. I went there and it does nothing to explain why the RCC church claims to be worshiping the same god as Muslims, who worship the pagan deity, Allah.

Are you in agreement with the church?

lightsalt
First, RCC church is redundant.

The Catechism needs to be taken in the light of Tradition, and I was hoping the Catechism of Trent may have answered it. They likely classify Mohammedism as a heresy (as it is), and just reject it outright.

I am in full agreement with the Church. I don’t know what in my post would have pointed otherwise.
 
First, RCC church is redundant.

The Catechism needs to be taken in the light of Tradition, and I was hoping the Catechism of Trent may have answered it. They likely classify Mohammedism as a heresy (as it is), and just reject it outright.

I am in full agreement with the Church. I don’t know what in my post would have pointed otherwise.
OK, so now you say that they likely classify Mohammedanism as heresy. You were hoping that the answer was within the link you sent??
Have you read the paragraph in question? It states that the RCC and the Muslims worship the same God.
Do you have a point here? The gist of the question is,

Is it heresy or the same God that is worshiped by the RCC?!

You cannot have it both ways, sorry.

lightsalt
 
OK, so now you say that they likely classify Mohammedanism as heresy. You were hoping that the answer was within the link you sent??
Have you read the paragraph in question? It states that the RCC and the Muslims worship the same God.
Do you have a point here? The gist of the question is,

Is it heresy or the same God that is worshiped by the RCC?!

You cannot have it both ways, sorry.

lightsalt
Yes. The Council of Trent was far more objective in speaking on matters. The new Catechism (the one you’re reading) is very vague.

I have read the paragraph in question.

Mohammedism (Islam) is a heresy. Just because they are heretics, however, does not mean they worship the same God.

Protestants/Lutherans/etc all worship Jesus Christ, but they are heretics as well.
 
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