Do "Christian atheists" go to heaven?

[lak611]

There is no such thing as a Christian atheist. That term has no meaning and contradicts itself, which shouldn’t surprise anyone here, given the level of contradiction in modern society. A ‘Christian’ is someone who follows Christ and his teachings, all of them, not just the ones that seem to fit your life or way of thinking. That means, belief in God, and not just ‘A’ God, but the one true God. Simply by agreeing with a few things Jesus taught, a few things you like, doesn’t make you a Christian. I agree with some of the things Buddha taught, but that doesn’t make me a Buddhist. If you have no belief in God, and deny him, as Christ said, he can deny you. It would seem then, that you put yourself completely on the hope of Gods Mercy for any chance of salvation.

 

[Hastrman]

That term has no meaning and contradicts itself

Technically, it contradicts itself, and *therefore *not only has no meaning, but is in fact inconceivable. The phrase “Christian Atheist” is grammatically possible (the adjective can go with the noun), but being self-contradictory, is actually devoid of meaning and designates nothing with even potential reality.

That’s, to quote Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum, logic.

 

[ribozyme]

Well, I don’t have any imaginary friends (that I know of; it is conceivable that I’m delusional).

The Christian belief in the Christian God is a matter of faith–that is, of “choosing to treat a proposition as true despite not having it fully logically proven, generally on the basis of trust in the source”.

Your belief (and my belief, of course) in most of the truths of science is actually on faith, too–unless you’ve sat down and experimentally proved everything from Copernicus to Hawking and Hippocrates to Watson and Crick? Even if you say you have seen their experimental evidence, aren’t you trusting that they aren’t lying to you? Watson and Crick might never have performed the (I believe) polarized light experiment that revealed the dual-helix structure of the DNA molecule.

In the same way, I accept the Christian faith as a true account of truths revealed by God, because (on the basis of a thousand things, some rational and some not), it does not seem to me to be a lie.

It’s X-ray diffraction that used to identify the structure of the double helix. I do not think it is based on faith as those experiments were repeatable and one can not an empirical difference. Could one make the same claim for “transubstantiation”.

 

[ribozyme]

There is no such thing as a Christian atheist. That term has no meaning and contradicts itself, which shouldn’t surprise anyone here, given the level of contradiction in modern society. A ‘Christian’ is someone who follows Christ and his teachings, all of them, not just the ones that seem to fit your life or way of thinking. That means, belief in God, and not just ‘A’ God, but the one true God. Simply by agreeing with a few things Jesus taught, a few things you like, doesn’t make you a Christian. I agree with some of the things Buddha taught, but that doesn’t make me a Buddhist. If you have no belief in God, and deny him, as Christ said, he can deny you. It would seem then, that you put yourself completely on the hope of Gods Mercy for any chance of salvation.

I thank you for your detailed response. It defines “Christian” extremely well! I appreciate your rigourous definition as it excludes Luboš Motl and Oriana Fallaci. So, if I am not a Christian by the aforemented definition, is it likely that “the one true God” will deny me salvation?

 

[Hastrman]

I thank you for your detailed response. It defines “Christian” extremely well! I appreciate your rigourous definition as it excludes Luboš Motl and Oriana Fallaci. So, if I am not a Christian by the aforemented definition, is it likely that “the one true God” will deny me salvation?

Since I seem to recall you’re an atheist (or are you an agnostic?), it would be self-contradictory to worry about it, but from our perspective, no; non-Christians just don’t have nearly as many “safety nets” (such as the sacraments) when being judged.

Atheism, incidentally, is not “lack of belief in God” (that’s nontheism) but “belief that there is no God”. It’s even more a faith than Christianity, since it’s *impossible *to prove a negative.

 

[ribozyme]

Since I seem to recall you’re an atheist, it would be self-contradictory to worry about it, but from our perspective, no; non-Christians just don’t have nearly as many “safety nets” (such as the sacraments) when being judged.

How are sacraments “safety nets”?

 

[Hastrman]

How are sacraments “safety nets”?

Baptism and Confession cleanse the soul of sin, while Communion bestows grace, making it easier not to sin. And, while everyone can repent sins, ordinarily one needs “perfect contrition,” motivated solely by the detestation of evil. The Sacrament of Confession works even if you’re also motivated by fear of punishment, known as “attrition”.

 

[Sixtus]

What about all the people who have never nor will ever be created. Will they go to heaven also

Is actually no more of a contradiciton than the concept of a Christian Atheist

 

[ribozyme]

Baptism and Confession cleanse the soul of sin, while Communion bestows grace, making it easier not to sin. And, while everyone can repent sins, ordinarily one needs “perfect contrition,” motivated solely by the detestation of evil. The Sacrament of Confession works even if you’re also motivated by fear of punishment, known as “attrition”.

Well, I got baptized because my mother is a Catholic, so does that mean I have a greater chance of getting into heaven?

I am curious, “Christian atheists” cannot receive Communion, right?

I do not see how Communion makes it easier for one not to sin. I find it easy not to kill people or swear when I am engrossed reading something about evolution or biochemistry.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I do not know what this term means, but Oriana Fallaci and Luboš Motl are Christian atheists.

For example, Oriana Fallaci writes (phibetacons.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGY5ZDJkZWQ2MzRjMmNmNzcwNzg5MjQ5NDgyYmU2YWE=):

In addition to call herself a “Christian”, Oriana Fallaci is also an atheist too; she does not believe in God.

Luboš Motl writes (motls.blogspot.com/2006/09/oriana-fallaci-force-of-reason.html):

So do “Christian atheists” have the gift of eternal life, and do they go to heaven?

God knows - no one on earth does​

How can one be a Christian and an atheist. If one has to believe that Jesus is God to be a Christian, how can an atheist also be “Christian” since they do not believe in any God, much less the notion that Christ is God.

Certainly it’s possible - depending on what “atheist” means. Atheists are admirable people - they don’t expect an eternal reward, & yet many of them are much more admirable than Christians, who do.​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

You guys are simplifying this way too much. Or perhaps not enough. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. From this point, it is debatable as the whether or not that requires literal belief in God.

In the Gospels, there is little or nothing about doctrine - the emphasis is on right conduct, not ritual or doctrinal correctness. If there were no Church, no one would invent it; still less would it be invented in the forms it has today. Plato founded no Church, yet Platonism survived, & does still - if Jesus had not founded one, that would not necessarily have been fatal to His teachings.​

Jesus admired the pagan, polytheistic centurion - not the impeccably right-believing, ritual-observing, Torah-keeping Pharisees, because it was the Gentile “dog” who had faith in Him, and the oh-so-pure so-called “orthodox” who crucified Him.

 

[Zooey]

I have read that Oriana Fallaci, near the end of her life, sent for a priest. She repented of her sins, including her years of atheism, & died a Catholic Christian.
Perhaps then, we should be praying more for “Christian atheists”?? As long as they live, there is always a chance for them to become truly Christian!

 

[artist3189]

In the Gospels, there is little or nothing about doctrine - the emphasis is on right conduct, not ritual or doctrinal correctness. If there were no Church, no one would invent it; still less would it be invented in the forms it has today. Plato founded no Church, yet Platonism survived, & does still - if Jesus had not founded one, that would not necessarily have been fatal to His teachings.​

Jesus admired the pagan, polytheistic centurion - not the impeccably right-believing, ritual-observing, Torah-keeping Pharisees, because it was the Gentile “dog” who had faith in Him, and the oh-so-pure so-called “orthodox” who crucified Him.

*Originally Posted by Everyman *
Quote You guys are simplifying this way too much. Or perhaps not enough. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. From this point, it is debatable as the whether or not that requires literal belief in God. Quote

**B] I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH BOTH OF THESE STATEMENTS, THESE MAKE NO SENSE AND ARE IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE SCRIPTURES AND CHURCH ******]HISTORY. This is the type of ‘Relativism’ that is prevalent through Christianity today and has *no basis *in the Truth or facts. To say something so ridiculous as “*From this point, it is debatable as to whether or not that *requires literal belief in God”, is probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on these posts. Christ WAS God, ‘I **and the Father are ONE’, and he was UNYIELDING in the primacy of the Jewish Commandments, his FULFILLMENT of the Prophets and Jewish Law. It wasn’t and either/or. Plato’s ‘teachings’ did not become the most dominate force in the history of mankind as did Christianity, precisely because he DID NOT establish a teaching authority and a Apostolic Succession. Christ commanded his followers to go forth and teach the Good News in his name, throughout the whole world. He did this to assure that the Glory of God would be taken to all men, and to this end he established his Church, and MANDATED it with God given Authority. I don’t understand how anyone can read the Scriptures and not understand what is happening. I think these quotes above, show more of what people ‘feel’ Christ is all about, to them, and pick and choose what they want to accept from the Scriptures. They have a ‘sense’ of what Christ was in relation to todays ‘relative’ way of viewing ourselves in the world. But to use the Centurion is really funny. The Centurion was the greatest example of ‘Blind Faith’ in God. The One True God. How you can follow the teachings of Christ and NOT believe in the One God, this is to deny Christs own words, but that doesn’t surprise me anymore. To many people these days, Christ has been reduced to a ‘Plato’ like teacher, a man, who said some really great ‘motto’s’ to live by, who had some good ideas. These people best not investigate what Christ *really *‘SAID’ in addition to all his inspiring ‘motto’s’. You can not be a follower of Christ, which is what a Christian is, and be a Atheist. You can be a cafeteria spiritualist, grab some teachings from here and there, some from Jesus, or even Plato, and use these to pattern your life on. But that does not make you a Christian. To be a Christian, you have to take Christ at his word, not yours.

 

[Judewang]

I totally agree with you artist. I think you’ve put the nail down on the question of “Christian” and “Athiest”.
There are no two ways about it. Either you are a Christian or an Athiest. If you choose to be one, then you will have to deny the other. That is the principle of non-contradiction.

 

[Dauphin]

So do “Christian atheists” have the gift of eternal life, and do they go to heaven?

Absolutely not.

The Church teaches dogmatically that the existence of God can be known with certainty through natural reason. The explicit denial of God’s existence is a formal heresy and a grave sin.

 

[1234]

Absolutely not.

The Church teaches dogmatically that the existence of God can be known with certainty through natural reason. The explicit denial of God’s existence is a formal heresy and a grave sin.

…not if you honestly don’t follow the RCC’s ‘reasons’ for the existence of a god.

 

[LutheranDK]

I do not know what this term means, but Oriana Fallaci and Luboš Motl are Christian atheists.

For example, Oriana Fallaci writes (phibetacons.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGY5ZDJkZWQ2MzRjMmNmNzcwNzg5MjQ5NDgyYmU2YWE=):

In addition to call herself a “Christian”, Oriana Fallaci is also an atheist too; she does not believe in God.

Luboš Motl writes (motls.blogspot.com/2006/09/oriana-fallaci-force-of-reason.html):

So do “Christian atheists” have the gift of eternal life, and do they go to heaven? How can one be a Christian and an atheist. If one has to believe that Jesus is God to be a Christian, how can an atheist also be “Christian” since they do not believe in any God, much less the notion that Christ is God.

This is a no-brainer: A “Christian atheist” is a contradiction in terms. One has to choose one, or the other. Not both - it doesn’t mix.

 

[mathematician]

This lot have probably given up calling themselves Christians by now, but they were started by somebody called Don Cuppitt, who decided he didn’t believe in God anymore, but still wanted to call himself a Christian.

sofn.org.uk/

 

[colliric]

I do not know what this term means, but Oriana Fallaci and Luboš Motl are Christian atheists.

For example, Oriana Fallaci writes (phibetacons.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGY5ZDJkZWQ2MzRjMmNmNzcwNzg5MjQ5NDgyYmU2YWE=):

In addition to call herself a “Christian”, Oriana Fallaci is also an atheist too; she does not believe in God.

Luboš Motl writes (motls.blogspot.com/2006/09/oriana-fallaci-force-of-reason.html):

So do “Christian atheists” have the gift of eternal life, and do they go to heaven? How can one be a Christian and an atheist. If one has to believe that Jesus is God to be a Christian, how can an atheist also be “Christian” since they do not believe in any God, much less the notion that Christ is God.

This seeems really to be “agnosticism” rather than “athiesm”. They are accepting the christian message and I think this shows that they are at least “Agnostic” rather than compleatly “athiestic”.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Oriana Fallaci

The name, like the belief, is “fallaci”.