Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

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Ok, I’ve looked at a few places on the net, it seems paganism, can be used in three ways:
-All non- Christian faiths/belief systems (Almost never used this way)
-All non- Abrahamic faiths/belief systems (More common than the first one)
-All non- Monotheistic faiths/belief systems (What I myself always thought paganism to be)

But Never is it ever used in a way that does not mean or include non- monotheistic systems such as Polytheism, Pantheism (Monism), Animism, Shamanism etc. So you see, my own understanding turned out to be the most inclusive!
 
Marybeloved said:
Forgive me, but wasn’t Muhammad speaking to the Meccan Arabs (who were pagans) when he said this? Did he ever say such a thing to Jews and Christians?
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Happy Sunday Mary_Beloved:

That very well may be the case,

However, if one is reading the koran as it is, and it is claimed by muslims that this book is for everyone, how would one know of what peoples is this being preached to.

One has to dig into the tafsir to read more about it.

But your standard every day koran, does not have the tafsirs in it…

At least when you read the Bible - the letters from the Apostles, you know to whom they are preaching.
 
Marybeloved said:
Forgive me, but wasn’t Muhammad speaking to the Meccan Arabs (who were pagans) when he said this? Did he ever say such a thing to Jews and Christians?
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I went & dug up the tafsir:

Period of Revelation

Hadrat Abdullah bin Mas’ud, Hadrat Hasan Basri and Ikrimah, say that this Surah, is Makki,

while Hadrat Abdullah bin Zubair says that it is Madani.

Two different views have been reported from Hadrat Abdullah bin Abbas and Qatadah, first that it is Makki, and second that it is Madani.

However, according to the majority of commentators, it is a Makki Surah, and the subject matter itself points to its being a Makki revelation

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=109

Now to your other question:

Where there Christians & Jews there when he was preaching this -

Who knows, but one has to take an educated guess and say yes, I would think that there were Jews & Christians in the crowd.
 
In general, tafsir of the Qur’an is really meant to help us understand those verses and passages of the Qur’an which are somewhat unclear or ambiguous in their meaning.

There are however verses of the Qur’an which are crystal-clear in their meaning and do not really require tafsir in order to understand their true meaning.

The Qur’an teaches tolerance for other religions. There are two passages that are often cited to support religious tolerance in Islam. The first of these is Surah Al-Ma’idah, Ayah 48. It reads:

** If Allah so willed, he would have made you a single People, but his plan is to test each of you separately, in what He has given to each of you: so strive in all virtues as in you are in a race. The goal of all of you is to Allah. It is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.**

The second of these is Surah Al-Ankabut, Ayah 46. It reads:

And dispute not with the People of the Book, except with means better than mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow."

The first of these verses clearly states the there are many people under God while in the second verse, the People of the Book mentioned are Christians, Jews, and Sabians.

Muslims believe that God sent His message to different nations at different points of history. While this message may have been corrupted at some point, the people of all those faiths worship the same God as Muslims.

Compared to most of the major world religions, Islam is remarkably tolerant to other religions and, unlike many other contemporary religions, this tolerance is not a result of reform or going contrary to what was established originally. Muslims are instructed to be tolerant of people of other faiths directly in the Qur’an.
 
jakasaki said:
I went & dug up the tafsir:

Period of Revelation

Hadrat Abdullah bin Mas’ud, Hadrat Hasan Basri and Ikrimah, say that this Surah, is Makki,

while Hadrat Abdullah bin Zubair says that it is Madani.

Two different views have been reported from Hadrat Abdullah bin Abbas and Qatadah, first that it is Makki, and second that it is Madani.

However, according to the majority of commentators, it is a Makki Surah, and the subject matter itself points to its being a Makki revelation

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=109

Now to your other question:

Where there Christians & Jews there when he was preaching this -

Who knows, but one has to take an educated guess and say yes, I would think that there were Jews & Christians in the crowd.
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Happy Sunday to you, my friend!👍 Sunday here is almost over. It’s late evening.

Well, the reason I said that was that I’ve heard it quoted on debates by Robert Spencer and Sam Shamoun (Sorry, not sure of the spelling) on youtube.

They basically say that during Muhammed’s beginning career as a prophet in Mecca, he had only a small band of followers and was overwhelmed by the dominant Meccan Pagans. When he began provoking them and they retaliated, he preached peace, with this verse you quoted. When he fled to Medina and gained followers among the fighter tribes, he began what might be called defensive wars, then later when he had enough numbers to dominate, the peaceful verses disappeared and were replaced by the war-like verses: The “Kill the idolaters until they convert”(not a direct quote) types of verses and “Fight the Jews wherever you find them” “Fight the Jews & Christians until they pay the Jizya (tax) and feel themselves subdued” etc.

So I always thought that the verse you quoted was used by Mohammed to placate the furious Meccan Pagans whom he had provoked by constantly attacking their religions and attempting to impose his own faith on them when he did not have the numbers to do it!
 
Marybeloved said:
Happy Sunday to you, my friend!👍 Sunday here is almost over. It’s late evening.

Well, the reason I said that was that I’ve heard it quoted on debates by Robert Spencer and Sam Shamoun (Sorry, not sure of the spelling) on youtube.

They basically say that during Muhammed’s beginning career as a prophet in Mecca, he had only a small band of followers and was overwhelmed by the dominant Meccan Pagans. When he began provoking them and they retaliated, he preached peace, with this verse you quoted. When he fled to Medina and gained followers among the fighter tribes, he began what might be called defensive wars, then later when he had enough numbers to dominate, the peaceful verses disappeared and were replaced by the war-like verses: The “Kill the idolaters until they convert”(not a direct quote) types of verses and “Fight the Jews wherever you find them” “Fight the Jews & Christians until they pay the Jizya (tax) and feel themselves subdued” etc.

So I always thought that the verse you quoted was used by Mohammed to placate the furious Meccan Pagans whom he had provoked by constantly attacking their religions and attempting to impose his own faith on them when he did not have the numbers to do it!
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It could very well be… I’m familiar with the works of the Robert & Sam, …

However… if you read the tafsir period revalation, the early Islamic scholars do not agree where the Sura came from:

These scholars claim it was Mecca…

Hadrat Abdullah bin Mas’ud, Hadrat Hasan Basri and Ikrimah, say that this Surah, is Makki,

These scholars claim it was Medina…

**while Hadrat Abdullah bin Zubair says that it is Madani. **

🤷
 
hamba2han said:
In general, tafsir of the Qur’an is really meant to help us understand those verses and passages of the Qur’an which are somewhat unclear or ambiguous in their meaning.

There are however verses of the Qur’an which are crystal-clear in their meaning and do not really require tafsir in order to understand their true meaning.

The Qur’an teaches tolerance for other religions. There are two passages that are often cited to support religious tolerance in Islam. The first of these is Surah Al-Ma’idah, Ayah 48. It reads:

** If Allah so willed, he would have made you a single People, but his plan is to test each of you separately, in what He has given to each of you: so strive in all virtues as in you are in a race. The goal of all of you is to Allah. It is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.**

The second of these is Surah Al-Ankabut, Ayah 46. It reads:

And dispute not with the People of the Book, except with means better than mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow."

The first of these verses clearly states the there are many people under God while in the second verse, the People of the Book mentioned are Christians, Jews, and Sabians.

Muslims believe that God sent His message to different nations at different points of history. While this message may have been corrupted at some point, the people of all those faiths worship the same God as Muslims.

Compared to most of the major world religions, Islam is remarkably tolerant to other religions and, unlike many other contemporary religions, this tolerance is not a result of reform or going contrary to what was established originally. Muslims are instructed to be tolerant of people of other faiths directly in the Qur’an.
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Come on, Hamba! You really know what you’re inviting when you make such sweeping and untrue statements, don’t you? ;)I’m quite certain you must know!
 
Hamba -

Sura 109 does not make it clear to whom Mohamad is preaching this to…

One does not know unless you go into the tafsir… and most korans do not have the commentary/tafsirs to them.

The Bible Epistles, when you read them… you know to whom the Apostles were preaching to. There is no guess work…
 
he second of these is Surah Al-Ankabut, Ayah 46. It reads:
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And dispute not with the People of the Book, except with means better than mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow.”
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Hamba -

please provide ayah number to the above passage
 
Marybeloved said:
Ok,so what is paganism to you?
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I don’t know for sure the terms but I think of paganism as polytheistic religions and those who believe in many dieties. Mushrik in Islam

Infidels/kafir or kufar are unbelievers and those without faith or religious beliefs.
 
Flyingg said:
I don’t know for sure the terms but I think of paganism as polytheistic religions and those who believe in many dieties. Mushrik in Islam

Infidels/kafir or kufar are unbelievers and those without faith or religious beliefs.
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Ok. Peace!
 
Marybeloved said:
Come on, Hamba! You really know what you’re inviting when you make such sweeping and untrue statements, don’t you? ;)I’m quite certain you must know!
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I am quoting what the Qur’an instructs the believers to do.

I am not endorsing the actions of Muslims who for whatever reasons, do not adhere to the teachings of Islam as stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah.
 
hamba2han said:
I am quoting what the Qur’an instructs the believers to do.

I am not endorsing the actions of Muslims who for whatever reasons, do not adhere to the teachings of Islam as stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah.
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I see. So, when you made this statement right here,
Compared to most of the major world religions, Islam is remarkably tolerant to other religions and, unlike many other contemporary religions, this tolerance is not a result of reform or going contrary to what was established originally. Muslims are instructed to be tolerant of people of other faiths directly in the Qur’an.
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You did not intend to say that Islam was more tolerant towards other faiths than “most major religions” which is to say, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism,

You did not intend to imply that throughout History and in virtually all Muslim-dominated Countries Muslims have been anything but “remarkably tolerant” towards non-Muslim populations living in their midst,

You did not intend to say that Your Qur’an no where instructs Muslims to practice violence and unequal treatment towards polytheists, idol-worshipers, Jews and Christians,

You did not intend to say/imply in any way that peace, love, mercy and tolerance of all mankind (personal faith/religion/opinions/beliefs notwithstanding) in Christianity are actually not indisputably fundamental teachings and practices of Christianity’s founder and his apostles, nor did you intend to say that this peace and tolerance is simply the result of “reform” and actually involves “going contrary to what was established originally”, nor did you intend to say that this peace, love, mercy and tolerance to all people is not to be found “directly” in Christianity’s Holy texts??

Well, if you intended to say none of this, then cool!! :DApologies and Carry on!
 
Marybeloved said:
I see. So, when you made this statement right here,

You did not intend to imply that throughout History and in virtually all Muslim-dominated Countries Muslims have been anything but “remarkably tolerant” towards non-Muslim populations living in their midst,
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That statement should be

You did not intend to deny that throughout History and in virtually all Muslim-dominated Countries Muslims have been anything but “remarkably tolerant” towards non-Muslim populations living in their midst??

Peace!
 
twinc said:
where exactly in 46 does it appear - what does appear is that their God is Allah and not that Allah is God - twinc
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Al-Ankaboot Spider

Sura #29 | Makkah

46
**And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).” **

47
And thus (it is) that We have sent down the Book to thee. So the People of the Book believe therein, as also do some of these (pagan Arabs): and none but Unbelievers reject our signs.

48
And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.

49
Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs. 50Ye they say: “Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: “The signs are indeed with Allah. and I am indeed a clear Warner.”

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=29&translator=2

🤷

Edit to add:

Twinc:

The tafsir for this ayah is all over the place for me.

Too munch info/commentary to post…
 
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