Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51, I have read you long post. Well since I haven’t clear idea about those religious stuff so better if I shall not argue . But Thanks for your response.

Peace.

Hey Rain_bow;

You posted a message awhile back in post #345:

Originally Posted by rain_bow View Post

Lol yes. I also think that it sounds Ludicrous,when everybody proclaim himself the prophet of Abrahamic God .Well I am amazed, that why Mohammad did not proclaim himself as the incarnation of Abrahamic God Still he could refuse Christian trinity( as he did) and could preach a monotheist religion. But he is clever enough,because he needed the supports from some Christians & their king too i think( if you know his Hizrih),so he limited himself in prophet hood .

However What is the difference between an angel of the Lord and The Angel of the Lord? I think I read somewhere in OT that God is saying that I am the angel of the Lord, and your God, isn’t it? So can you make it clear? why God said so?

You had asked what are the differences between the “angel of the Lord” and “The Angel of the Lord” and also in the O.T, you said, that God is saying that I am the angel of the Lord, and your God, isn’t it? Which I’ve never read.

There were many angels throughout the O.T that had delivered messages or were sent to protect, or to guide people,in Judaism an angel (Hebrew: מַלְאָךְ‎ malakh, plural malakhim) is a messenger of God but the most important thing is that an angel (Malak) can be both human and divine - which I think is awesome. One reason, is that we ourselves can do God’s will - when we act on it. In the prayer - 2 Maccabees the scripture reads “3 May he give you all a heart to worship him and to do his will with a generous mind and a willing spirit.”

So personally, the differences really aren’t so wide between ourselves and angels…as to when we open ourselves to God and his divine plans. Look at the story of Mary and how she gave up her own feel will to fulfill the promise of salvation - wow! 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her." - she emptied herself and allowed God to direct her. This same thought is in the Lord’s prayer, “thy will be done” See also: Matthew 6:10, all this goes toward the prayer in John 17, “6 “I have revealed you”, we reveal God’s glory when He works through us -

So in someway - we should show the glory from that gifts that He gave us, to reveal his presents in our world. We show that we are just as much messengers of God.

Is this a little clearer?

Mary

 

[MorningSong51]

I have come across a passage that would be interesting to get your views on. This is the thinking, if Muslims worshiped the Father they would be led to Jesus as His Son.

John 6:43-45:

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I totally agree. “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.” and the meaning to this can also be read in Mark 10:17-25, on how the rich man asked Jesus how one can inherit eternal life, 8 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

Isn’t that parable on the ‘Come Follow Me’ - the rich man had obeyed and followed all the commandments, which to anyone - is hard to do unless God was directing that person’s path to walking blamelessly. We read with Elizabeth and Zechariah, who according to scripture, “6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.” Even in Genesis we read that God had asked Abraham “walk before me, and be thou perfect”. So looking back into scripture as well as reading in the N.T - where does this put Mary and Joseph? As Mary was called “Highly Favored” - “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God." - that would mean that she had walked before “me” and was blameless before God.

Well, not trying to go off the subject, however - the end remark in Mark, "The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51, I have read you long post. Well since I haven’t clear idea about those religious stuff so better if I shall not argue . But Thanks for your response.

Peace.

Those posts were scriptural points taken out from the O.T and N.T as an example of the different duties that an angel was sent. Some had major responsibilities as others minor - as with the prophets. Which would have more weight Rain_bow a prophet or an angel? We have the major prophets and minor prophets…as we have the cherub (Heb. כְּרוּב, pl. כְּרוּבִים, eng. trans kərūv, pl. kərūvîm, dual kərūvāyim lat. cherub[us], pl cherubi[m], Assyrian ܟܪܘܒܐ) is a type of spiritual being mentioned in the Bible, usually associated with the presence of God.** Seraphim**, literally “burning ones”, is the plural of “seraph”, more properly sarap. The word sarap/seraphim appears three times in the Torah (Numbers 21:6-8, Deuteronomy 8:15) and four times in the Book of Isaiah (6:2-6, 14:29, 30:6) and then we read about ** archangels** who were believed to rank among the heavenly host, no systematic hierarchy ever developed. Metatron is considered one of the highest of the angels in Merkabah…

so…

 

[MorningSong51]

No, Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. The TRIUNE God of Christianity includes the fact that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and is therefore God.

Muslims have reduced Jesus to a prophet and not God. The Holy Spirit doesn’t exist in their belief in Allah.

While we can study the historical actionsand beliefs of Islam, that has nothing to do with the truth of our Savior.

It ain’t rocket science. [BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

and posing no difficulty? - No, its not rocket science - as the arguments between religious groups is on that very subject - of absolute true. Reading from the Old Testament (Hebrew bible) you would have to find the division between Ishmael (Genesis 17 " And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.) and Esau who cast his lot with the Ishmaelite tribe…see Deuteronomy 32, 1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.

8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples…

It is the same God.

 

[apfrita]

and posing no difficulty? - No, its not rocket science - as the arguments between religious groups is on that very subject - of absolute true. Reading from the Old Testament (Hebrew bible) you would have to find the division between Ishmael (Genesis 17 " And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.) and Esau who cast his lot with the Ishmaelite tribe…see Deuteronomy 32, 1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.

8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples…

It is the same God.

No, it cannot be the same God. The God of Ishmael could be God the Father of the Christians or YHWH of the Jews, but the question is not whether the God of Ishmael is the same God which the Christians worship. The question is whether the God the Muslims worship is the same God the Christians worship? For this the answer is definitely NO. The faith of Ishmael has got corrupted till the time it reached Muhammad. What now the Muslims worship is not the same God who is YHWH of the Jews or God the Father of the Christians. God the Father of the Christians is only a progression of faith of the Jews. The Jews did not know that God had a Son or that he had a third person in him called the Holy Spirit. This was revealed only by Jesus. If Muhammad agrees that Jesus is a prophet of God then a true prophet has to be accepted in his entire teaching not only bits and pieces which comply with your own understanding. Please see below certain beliefs of today’s Muslims which directly conflict with what Jesus taught as some of his prime teachings:

***1) The Bible which came first teaches that Jesus is the Son of God who suffered, died, buried and rose again on the third day before ascending into heaven. Whereas Muhammad taught in the Koran, that Jesus is a mere prophet who did not even die, but ascended directly into heaven. This was what he got from the heretical Gnostic gospels prevalent during his time.

1. The Bible teaches that Jesus will be the judge of entire mankind when he comes again the 2nd time. The Muslims say that he will be one of those who will stand in the line for judgement by Allah.
2. The Bible teaches in the book of Hebrews Ch 1 that in past times God spoke through the prophets but in the present time he has spoken through the Son. This means that there is no need of any prophet after Jesus. The Muslims believe that Muhammad is the greatest of all the prophets and he came much later than Jesus.
3. The Bible teaches that Jesus was the perfect sacrificial lamb and after him no more sacrifices are required since he has satisfied the perfect justice of God. The Muslims are still sacrificing lambs to God as taught to them by the Koran.
4. Jesus taught that marriage is once on earth and irrevocable unless it is unlawful. In heaven there will be no one who will marry or be given in marriage but they will be like the angels in heaven. Muslims believe that if they live a perfect life according to the Koran they will have virgins with whom they can enjoy sex in heaven.***

Since the Muslims believe that Jesus is a true prophet of God, then how come so many of their beliefs conflict with the teachings of this prophet. If a prophet teaches untruth then he is to be called a false prophet. But Muslims call Jesus a true prophet and yet contradict so many of his basic teachings which means that they are in effect calling him a false prophet, hence contradicting their own prophet Muhammad’s teaching that Jesus is a true prophet of God.

The only logical conclusion to this is that Muslims at best are worshipping some other god, but not God the Father which the Christians worship.

 

[MorningSong51]

No, it cannot be the same God. The God of Ishmael could be God the Father of the Christians or YHWH of the Jews, but the question is not whether the God of Ishmael is the same God which the Christians worship. The question is whether the God the Muslims worship is the same God the Christians worship? For this the answer is definitely NO. The faith of Ishmael has got corrupted till the time it reached Muhammad. What now the Muslims worship is not the same God who is YHWH of the Jews or God the Father of the Christians. God the Father of the Christians is only a progression of faith of the Jews. The Jews did not know that God had a Son or that he had a third person in him called the Holy Spirit. This was revealed only by Jesus. If Muhammad agrees that Jesus is a prophet of God then a true prophet has to be accepted in his entire teaching not only bits and pieces which comply with your own understanding. Please see below certain beliefs of today’s Muslims which directly conflict with what Jesus taught as some of his prime teachings:

***1) The Bible which came first teaches that Jesus is the Son of God who suffered, died, buried and rose again on the third day before ascending into heaven. Whereas Muhammad taught in the Koran, that Jesus is a mere prophet who did not even die, but ascended directly into heaven. This was what he got from the heretical Gnostic gospels prevalent during his time.

1. The Bible teaches that Jesus will be the judge of entire mankind when he comes again the 2nd time. The Muslims say that he will be one of those who will stand in the line for judgement by Allah.
2. The Bible teaches in the book of Hebrews Ch 1 that in past times God spoke through the prophets but in the present time he has spoken through the Son. This means that there is no need of any prophet after Jesus. The Muslims believe that Muhammad is the greatest of all the prophets and he came much later than Jesus.
3. The Bible teaches that Jesus was the perfect sacrificial lamb and after him no more sacrifices are required since he has satisfied the perfect justice of God. The Muslims are still sacrificing lambs to God as taught to them by the Koran.
4. Jesus taught that marriage is once on earth and irrevocable unless it is unlawful. In heaven there will be no one who will marry or be given in marriage but they will be like the angels in heaven. Muslims believe that if they live a perfect life according to the Koran they will have virgins with whom they can enjoy sex in heaven.***

Since the Muslims believe that Jesus is a true prophet of God, then how come so many of their beliefs conflict with the teachings of this prophet. If a prophet teaches untruth then he is to be called a false prophet. But Muslims call Jesus a true prophet and yet contradict so many of his basic teachings which means that they are in effect calling him a false prophet, hence contradicting their own prophet Muhammad’s teaching that Jesus is a true prophet of God.

The only logical conclusion to this is that Muslims at best are worshipping some other god, but not God the Father which the Christians worship.

Hi Apfrita;

What was the reply to Ishmael, "11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:

“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a]
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
** toward all his brothers**.”

He lives accordingly - full fledged!

 

[apfrita]

In the above quote, the CCC only says that the Muslims acknowledge the Creator and that the Muslims** profess ** to hold the faith of Abraham and together with us that they adore the one,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. My opinion is that the word profess applies to the entire sentence coming afterwards.

The Church never has made a straight-forward statement that Muslims and the Christians worship the same God. If the Church wanted to say that, wouldn’t it have been more easier to simply say that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

One can profess to worship one God, but that one God whether he is the God who first revealed himself to the Jews and then in a more complete way through Jesus or whether it is altogether a different god whom the Muslims call Allah as revealed to their prophet Muhammad is altogether something different. If God revealed himself to the Christians as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, why would he then retract and reveal himself to the Muslims some 600 odd years later as only one God named Allah. Why would he not keep his proper name the same what he revealed himself to Moses (YHWH). Does a proper name of a person change in various languages (Hebrew and Arabic for eg)?

My honest doubts are given above. Since you are a very veteran member, I would appreciate that you explain the contradictions I stated in my original post. Even if one says that the CCC #841 states clearly that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, it is one statement which goes against so many other teachings of Jesus in the Bible which the Muslim faith contradicts. I believe that Lumen Gentium 16 from where CCC 841 picks up its quote was post Vatican 2 Document, and it was written at a time when a dialogue was sought with other religions. May be that was the reason why CCC 841 is written in such unclear language to just help start a dialogue with the Muslims and it cannot be taken as a proper quote for saying that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

In the above quote, the CCC only says that the Muslims acknowledge the Creator and that the Muslims** profess ** to hold the faith of Abraham and together with us that they adore the one,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. My opinion is that the word profess applies to the entire sentence coming afterwards.

(To my understanding) “faith” have different meanings for each, for the muslims “faith” is a religion, they believe there was a religion that predates Judaism and Christianity and islam is a restoration of it. Faith in Christianity is the theological virtue of Faith, it is gift from the Holy Spirit.

I doubt they are “together with us” too, they adore allah in lieu of worshiping the Blessed Trinity.

And to most muslims the judgement during the last day is not what a Christian would expect, according to the koran Jews and Christian condemned to hell.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I wonder then how many gods there are and at what point did any of our previous errors about God, childhood immature faith, misunderstandings, others errors that we may have accepted, etc., result in a “different god”? Is God a Transcendent Reality that we can be in union with through the truth that we can accept at the time (for whatever reason), or is He merely the basis for our thought that has no union with Him in reality until we get all, or perhaps at least 51%, of this thought correct? Is He the source of reality or just the basis for it?

If He is the source of it, then any and all levels of truth are united to Him as He is their transcendent source. This sounds Catholic to me. But a mere basis for reality would require that everything be absolutely correct to have a link to Him in our thought, but no union is possible even with it being correct because it is merely a basis, not a source. This doesn’t sound Catholic but protestant to me. A “different god” seemingly is the argument of those who accept nominalism which includes both Protestants and Muslims, or they fail at understanding transcendence due to deficient modern philosophy, which are Catholics accepting deficient philosophical notions influenced by worldly philosophy of materialism, scientism, and evolutionism. There is no different god to be worshiped, some merely fail at finding and accepting the full truth of God Who is Ultimate Truth, not the mere basis for what is true.

Here is a related question: Is the God of “Intelligent Design” the same God as in Catholic Theology? Or the Old Testament God vs. the New. Or what about the God of the Pharisees?

 

[MorningSong51]

Hey Rain_bow;

You posted a message awhile back in post #345:

You had asked what are the differences between the “angel of the Lord” and “The Angel of the Lord” and also in the O.T, you said, that God is saying that I am the angel of the Lord, and your God, isn’t it? Which I’ve never read.

There were many angels throughout the O.T that had delivered messages or were sent to protect, or to guide people,in Judaism an angel (Hebrew: מַלְאָךְ‎ malakh, plural malakhim) is a messenger of God but the most important thing is that an angel (Malak) can be both human and divine - which I think is awesome. One reason, is that we ourselves can do God’s will - when we act on it. In the prayer - 2 Maccabees the scripture reads “3 May he give you all a heart to worship him and to do his will with a generous mind and a willing spirit.”

So personally, the differences really aren’t so wide between ourselves and angels…as to when we open ourselves to God and his divine plans. Look at the story of Mary and how she gave up her own feel will to fulfill the promise of salvation - wow! 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her." - she emptied herself and allowed God to direct her. This same thought is in the Lord’s prayer, “thy will be done” See also: Matthew 6:10, all this goes toward the prayer in John 17, “6 “I have revealed you”, we reveal God’s glory when He works through us -

So in someway - we should show the glory from that gifts that He gave us, to reveal his presents in our world. We show that we are just as much messengers of God.

Is this a little clearer?

Mary

Rain_bow - one other thought to this last post, that is - if the message isn’t quit clear:

Original post from Rain_bow:
However What is the difference between an angel of the Lord and The Angel of the Lord? I think I read somewhere in OT that God is saying that I am the angel of the Lord, and your God, isn’t it? So can you make it clear? why God said so?

and to quote from one source, and this source might answer your question:

Most New Testaments come from Greek translations that were originally translated from Hebrew and Aramaic texts. However, the Aramaic English New Testament comes directly from Aramaic. The meaning of an entire verse can easily be altered by a translation, for example; the Greek “Kurios” is often rendered as “Lord”, however there is both “LORD” (the Father) and “Lord” (the Son), which the translator must choose. However the Father (YHWH) and Son are clearly distinguished in Aramaic, there is no confusion about the speaker or Who is being addressed.aent.org/

but again, after reading the on-line information - you have to remember that you said “Angel” - and not “Lord”

 

[Marybeloved]

I wonder then how many gods there are and at what point did any of our previous errors about God, childhood immature faith, misunderstandings, others errors that we may have accepted, etc., result in a “different god”? Is God a Transcendent Reality that we can be in union with through the truth that we can accept at the time (for whatever reason), or is He merely the basis for our thought that has no union with Him in reality until we get all, or perhaps at least 51%, of this thought correct? Is He the source of reality or just the basis for it?

Correct- And one would wonder if full and correct knowledge is the basis for worship of the true God, then what in God’s name were Abraham, the Patriarchs, the Prophets and everyone in the OT worshiping for over a thousand years? They certainly had no concept of the Blessed Trinity . What do the modern Jews worship? In fact, what do we (Christians) worship? We certainly don’t know everything about God, do we?

 

[Stella101]

Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
And the answer is Yes they do, we just worship him in our own different way .

Anyway who give us the right to stand in judgment,sadly the Muslim do not believe in the Holy Trinity and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God …
But Ladies and Gentleman so does the Jewish People, but no one points a finger in their direction , have you ever wonder about the different about the Jewish and the Muslim people???

The different between the Jewish and the Muslim in this matters is !!!
The Jewish :do not believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of the world that He was born and that He died for our sins and is the HE is Son of God.to this day they are still disrespectful towards our Lord ,think people does this sound like a nation that worships the same God we do .( but I have no right to place judgement on the Jewish ppl God forgive me )

The Muslim : believe that Jesus Christ is a holy prophet ( how sad for them they losing out on the gift that was given to us by not partaking in the Joy of it .) but the Moslem will never disrespect him .(Jesus)

The Jewish : disrespect the Mother of God ,( in so many word they are calling Our Mother a liar) and says that the Messiah was never born they still waiting for the coming of the child the Messiah .
The Muslim : believe that Mary is a holy woman and bore Jesus Christ .it is even written in their holy bible the quran.

Now look at it God our Father has revealed this mysteries to the Muslim people, but in their misguided way, they still accept Jesus and Mary ,where the Jewish people total to this day reject them . So tell me between the two who is better off ???.

And yet everyone sits in judgment as to weather or not the Muslim believe in the same God we believe in .??? think about it People really think.

Our Lady of Medjugorje had this to say .
“The Virgin added: 'It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children.”

We asked this question to a priest at a retreat recently , when they ( muslim) die what would happen ? and this was his answer "like everyone else we will all met Jesus face to face and there would be a few mins in which they would have to decide if they believed that He was God and like everyone else we will decide Yes or NO.If they believe they will go to heaven if not then to Hell "OH what a gift for them to get to know Jesus ,everyone who where not followers of Jesus get the gift of getting to know Him when they get to heaven how blessed they would be .

Luke 13 :22-30

And if you guys are still sitting there and do not know that Allah is God in Arabic then this is a sad day indeed.
Have you forgot what Jesus had to say in Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
SO ASK YOURSELF WHO IS MY NEIGHBOR???

The way you are sitting and questioning if the Muslim people worship the same God we do …So does the rest of the world who are not Catholic think about us .

something to ponder about .

 

[Peace_of_cake]

I wonder then how many gods there are and at what point did any of our previous errors about God, childhood immature faith, misunderstandings, others errors that we may have accepted, etc., result in a “different god”? Is God a Transcendent Reality that we can be in union with through the truth that we can accept at the time (for whatever reason), or is He merely the basis for our thought that has no union with Him in reality until we get all, or perhaps at least 51%, of this thought correct? Is He the source of reality or just the basis for it?

If He is the source of it, then any and all levels of truth are united to Him as He is their transcendent source. This sounds Catholic to me. But a mere basis for reality would require that everything be absolutely correct to have a link to Him in our thought, but no union is possible even with it being correct because it is merely a basis, not a source. This doesn’t sound Catholic but protestant to me. A “different god” seemingly is the argument of those who accept nominalism which includes both Protestants and Muslims, or they fail at understanding transcendence due to deficient modern philosophy, which are Catholics accepting deficient philosophical notions influenced by worldly philosophy of materialism, scientism, and evolutionism. There is no different god to be worshiped, some merely fail at finding and accepting the full truth of God Who is Ultimate Truth, not the mere basis for what is true.

Here is a related question: Is the God of “Intelligent Design” the same God as in Catholic Theology? Or the Old Testament God vs. the New. Or what about the God of the Pharisees?

This was such a good point that I may have to steal it

 

[gerhardc]

Yes, I totally agree. “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.” and the meaning to this can also be read in Mark 10:17-25, on how the rich man asked Jesus how one can inherit eternal life, 8 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

Isn’t that parable on the ‘Come Follow Me’ - the rich man had obeyed and followed all the commandments, which to anyone - is hard to do unless God was directing that person’s path to walking blamelessly. We read with Elizabeth and Zechariah, who according to scripture, “6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.” Even in Genesis we read that God had asked Abraham “walk before me, and be thou perfect”. So looking back into scripture as well as reading in the N.T - where does this put Mary and Joseph? As Mary was called “Highly Favored” - “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God." - that would mean that she had walked before “me” and was blameless before God.

Well, not trying to go off the subject, however - the end remark in Mark, "The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Not sure how the above relates to the following in John 6:43-45: “Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.”

The clinching argument for me is that Jesus Himself is saying that if someone is really worshipping or communicating with His Father, then His Father would lead that person to Jesus. Therefore, it must also be true that if someone does not come to Jesus as the Son, he or she has not worshipped or communicated with the Father. In the above passage, Jesus presents us with a universal truth that has no exception: “everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.” No Jesus as the Son, no Father as God. Not a difficult question to answer.

 

[Parz]

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 1Jo 2:23

 

[Stella101]

I do not understand the reasoning behind worrying about other people and their religions!!! …
You guys are missing the point ,stop worrying and concerning yourselves about the Muslim or any other religions for that matter.

Yes they are not Catholic but they are still believers,we know what it feels like to be crucified by the rest of the world for being Catholics ,none of us have the to right to sit in judgment, is that not what the church has taught us at all ,

Each and everyone of us has a journey to follow to complete ,a life to live that is good, pure and humbly concentrated on you own salvation, nurture your own relationship with God ,don’t look around at others .

We all are the children of God ,he is our creator our maker …we all made in the likeness and images of God .

Instead of asking questions go down on your knees and pray,pray for the conversion of the world , Fast ,read the bible ,go to mass ,go to confession as much as you can ,partake in the holy Eucharist

Live the life you meant to live in unite with our Lord Jesus Christ .

Just remember Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[gerhardc]

I do not understand the reasoning behind worrying about other people and their religions!!! …
You guys are missing the point ,stop worrying and concerning yourselves about the Muslim or any other religions for that matter.

Yes they are not Catholic but they are still believers,we know what it feels like to be crucified by the rest of the world for being Catholics ,none of us have the to right to sit in judgment, is that not what the church has taught us at all ,

Each and everyone of us has a journey to follow to complete ,a life to live that is good, pure and humbly concentrated on you own salvation, nurture your own relationship with God ,don’t look around at others .

We all are the children of God ,he is our creator our maker …we all made in the likeness and images of God .

Instead of asking questions go down on your knees and pray,pray for the conversion of the world , Fast ,read the bible ,go to mass ,go to confession as much as you can ,partake in the holy Eucharist

Live the life you meant to live in unite with our Lord Jesus Christ .

Just remember Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Of course others’ salvation is not for us to judge. But that is not the question.

Considering the lengths to which Peter and Paul and others went to preach Jesus to a Christless world, do you honestly believe they would concur with your sentiments? Clearly not.

 

[Parz]

Stella,

First I should point out that I’m not Catholic. Worse still, I’m a dispensationalist. So I know what it feels like to be considered a heretic by other Christians.

That said; if you examine what Islam teaches about the nature of Allah; who Jesus really is and salvation you would realize that Muslims desperately need the gospel.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Mat 28:19-20

 

[Stella101]

@Gerhardc then what is the is the Question do you know it, do u understand it ??
@Parz we all want to be right ,we all want to think we know better .

How can we sit here thinking that we have been so blessed that our Heavenly Father has reveal unto us the secrets that He hold with regards to what would happen to one who has not accepted Our Lord Jesus as the savior of the world . How can we not be merciful when Our Heavenly Father has been so merciful towards us …how sure are we that we going to heaven ,I am not sure ,but I pray and have faith that God would be merciful on the day that i die and that I would be counted as one of his people I am but human and am weak and sinful but I pray on the day of judgement our God would be merciful .

My personal opinion :I do not know what the next person believes in or does not believe in ,I would however remember Jesus words and will try my best to live by it …that the man or woman be they Jews,Muslim or non catholic is my neighbor and I will love them as I love myself ,and that I will continue to pray for the conversion of the world .
I leave you with this one of the scripture reading of the day .
Roman 14:1-12. ( look at what St Paul had to say )
Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master[a] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,

and every tongue shall confess** to God."
12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.**

 

[Parz]

“Parz we all want to be right ,we all want to think we know better .”

It’s not just a matter of being right but understanding what the truth is by reading the plain sense of Scripture.

You are taking Rom 14:1-2 out of the context that Paul meant it to be taken. He was talking about Christians nitpicking other Christians over non-salvation issues. But we know that doctrinal issues are very important otherwise James wouldn’t tell us: “Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. “Jam 3:1

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. Joh 10:1

Muslims deny that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 2:23