Do Crosses at Catholic University Violate Muslim Human Rights?

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Why would you go to a Catholic school if you weren’t willing to put up with the “Catholic” stuff?

As for using the excuse that maybe they get public funding, that is a silly argument. Everyone gets public funding. If you ever drive on an interstate highway or buy anything that was transported using an interstate highway, you have been the beneficiary of public funding.

Of course, just because it is a silly argument, doesn’t mean it won’t gain traction :eek:
 
It’s a bit more complex than an objection to the Crucifix at a Catholic University. The title of the article is misleading and the issue is not over all Crosses but rather a request to have a single room, devoid of Catholic symbols and icons, in which they can use for their own use – prayer in this case. The University has been forcing them to use a Chapel.

I did not read that they want the Crosses removed – only for there to be a room that is devoid of Catholic symbols. If the University admits Muslim students and knew they were admitting them, then they should have been prepared for this eventuality.

The statement by Patrick Riley, seems particularly inciteful and injudicious for what is a hot button issue.

The simplest course of action would be to find one room and devote it to them for their use – removed of any Catholic Crosses and other icons. Surely, there is one room somewhere in the University and the courts will look to the burden of finding an empty room to provide these students for prayer and find that the University can meet that burden.

And trust me on this one, as an American, I’m not likely to come to the defense of Muslims – have little interest in supporting the advancement of their self-interpreting religion-- because I actually think there are some times less obvious reasons for their demands and inconsistencies.

However, in this case the University is wrong on the law – the title of the article is not what the issue is really about (intending to mislead the reader), and the simplest and correct solution is to allow them a room in which to pray – before they spend good money having the Courts force the issue. And the Church will lose on this one. Forcing them to pray in a Chapel is an egregious violation of religious freedom in our country. It does not matter what I or you believe about the Muslim faith itself. I wonder at why the Administration was not more mindful of this issue when they chose to admit Muslims? I wonder why the article wanted to mislead the reader as to the real circumstances?
 
Wanted add here that, esepcially when pursuing an advanced degree, there are usually only a few Universities that offer the specific program that will advance you in your career.

I will venture to guess that these students, which they could not prevent from applying, are pursuing some advanced degree which is why they chose the Catholic University. It may have the necessary course of study for a certain degree, which may be little offered elsewhere.

Note that the University also admits Jewish students and has allowed two Jewish organizations to form. The University does not follow dietary laws for Jews and Muslims.

I’m sure others disagree and believe there are other motives behind this request for a room. No doubt. However, on it’s face, there’s no reason not to allow them their own room. A Court, should this wind up in the system, is not going to look for hidden motives and suspicions. They are going to look at the Constitution.

I’m dismayed at the Fox article.
 
Sorry to take up so much space, but I did some research.

Catholic University is primarily an advanced degree University. Though it added an undergraduate program, it’s emphasis on their site is for advanced degrees. I believe that these students applied for advanced and specialized degree programs. They may very well be there because of the speciality of the degree they are pursuing – not because it’s a Catholic University.

The University does receive federal funding, as do all Colleges and Universities, in the form of federal financial aid – usually direct aid in the form of Pell grants and federally guaranteed student loans.

I caution against misreading the title of the article as implying that the students are asking for the removal of all Crosses or Crucifixes - this does not appear to be the case.

However, knowing full well that agendas can and do exist, the smartest course of action would have been to allow the students their request – for a room devoid of Catholic Crosses – and see where that takes us. If the request is an honorable one, then the issue is a non-issue and the University has emptied a room for them to use. If not, and this sensible solution leads to more demands, then we are certain we are faced with an agenda couched in using our own religious freedoms against us.

Legally, right now, the University is on no firm ground to deny a room without a Cross. If they are not asking for the removal of all Crosses, and that appears to be the case, then the Church is hard pressed to find a legal argument to deny them one empty room. It remains to be seen whether the students are making a legitimate request or are looking to press for ever increasing demands. The only way to know is to grant this one.
 
Leegal said:
The University does receive federal funding, as do all Colleges and Universities, in the form of federal financial aid – usually direct aid in the form of Pell grants and federally guaranteed student loans.
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Not all of them. Hillsdale and Grove City are examples of colleges that accept no federal financial aid, precisely because they do not want this type of government meddling , via Title IX, in their mission.

But you are right, because of Grove City College Vs Bell, and later legislation, schools that accept federal student financial aid are subject to government interference in their freedom.

Jon
 
Christendom College’s answer to keeping the government out of their affairs is not to accept federal aid whatsoever. Unfortunately the price to pay is student’s can only get loans through one bank (PNC) and Sallie Mae. That and scholarships.
 
CatholicFireman said:
Christendom College’s answer to keeping the government out of their affairs is not to accept federal aid whatsoever. Unfortunately the price to pay is student’s can only get loans through one bank (PNC) and Sallie Mae. That and scholarships.
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My daughter was quite able to get financial aid when she was at Hillsdale. The college has developed quite an array of loan and grant/scholarship options. I guess it depends on the college. That said, kudos to Christendom College. 👍

Jon
 
JonNC said:
My daughter was quite able to get financial aid when she was at Hillsdale. The college has developed quite an array of loan and grant/scholarship options. I guess it depends on the college. That said, kudos to Christendom College. 👍

Jon
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👍 for your daughter.

My daughter was accepted twice to Christendom but decided on another major so she never went. Although, she dates a student (soon to be graduate) from there. :rolleyes:
 
CopticChristian said:
There are questions that were not answered in my review of the subject. Is there any government funding in the school that this is a controversy? If there is no government funding and it is totally private then the decision is free choice. Those that attend have a right to choose to attend or not. This then boils down to making noise.

If this is a totally private institution then Brigham Young would be subject to the same discrimination problem if BYU were totally private. It suggests that activists may be targeting private institutions for this purpose.
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It is both totally private and the recipient of government money. The government money that it receives is indirect in the form of government sponsored loans and financial aid. But that point is not really important. Even federal money does not come with a restriction on such things as religious displays. As long as the Muslim students are not discriminated against, there isn’t an issue.

This claim by the way isn’t a federal one. The claim is being made on the basis of DC local law.
Leegal said:
Wanted add here that, esepcially when pursuing an advanced degree, there are usually only a few Universities that offer the specific program that will advance you in your career.

I will venture to guess that these students, which they could not prevent from applying, are pursuing some advanced degree which is why they chose the Catholic University. It may have the necessary course of study for a certain degree, which may be little offered elsewhere.
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CUA is a smaller university. They don’t have degree programs, other than theology, that are not readily available at several other DC area universities.
A Court, should this wind up in the system, is not going to look for hidden motives and suspicions. They are going to look at the Constitution.
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This isn’t a constitutional issue. That would only apply if someone was arguing the constitutionality of the law itself. No one is doing that, no one is even challenging the law at all.
 
followingtheway said:
So why are these people picking on Catholics?
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Good question. Some people just ahve the impression teh Catholic church is an evil organization that is intolerant of others who don’t accept the doctrine and those who question things about the church and why the church does what it does. It’s not the Middle Ages anymore. The Catholic Church of Europe in the Middle Ages was corrupt as can be and did a lot of things that looking back now raise serious questions about the people in charge of it then. The past is the past yet some want to continue to persecute Catholics for everything they possbily can.
 
schaubj57 said:
Good question. Some people just ahve the impression teh Catholic church is an evil organization that is intolerant of others who don’t accept the doctrine and those who question things about the church and why the church does what it does. It’s not the Middle Ages anymore. The Catholic Church of Europe in the Middle Ages was corrupt as can be and did a lot of things that looking back now raise serious questions about the people in charge of it then. The past is the past yet some want to continue to persecute Catholics for everything they possbily can.
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I don’t think midieval Catholicism is the issue, quite frankly. I think it is a more modern anti-Christian (Catholics are the biggest, so they get the biggest hammer) secularism. The CC takes stances on things such as abortion (thank God), that draws their ire and venom.

Jon
 
followingtheway said:

  1. *]Would stars of David at a Jewish University violate Gentile rights?
    *]Would icons of Theotokos at a Eastern Orthodox/Eastern Catholic/Oriental Orthodox university violate Western Christians’ rights?
    *]Would the Angel Moroni at a Mormon University violate Non-Mormon rights?
    *]Would a statue of Buddha at a Buddhist university violate Non-Buddhists rights?
    *]Would an “aum/om” symbol at a Hindu university violate Non-Hindu rights?

    No? So why are these people picking on Catholics?

    I hate how crazy and intolerant extremists give people the wrong impressions cool and normal Muslims

    God bless :byzsoc:

    David
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  1. Because we allow ourselves to be picked on and bend over backwards to accommodate our critics and sacrifice our own religious values “because someone might say something”.
 
JonNC said:
I don’t think midieval Catholicism is the issue, quite frankly. I think it is a more modern anti-Christian (Catholics are the biggest, so they get the biggest hammer) secularism. The CC takes stances on things such as abortion (thank God), that draws their ire and venom.

Jon
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I had a friend who’s family is Methodist. He is always sliding in questiosn of how I view my faith, do I think for myself or go off of what the priest tells me, do I read and find my own understanding of the bible, and he’s made several (at times) shameful comments about how teh Catholic Church is run and it’s beliefs. Once he started this line of behavior I distanced myself from him as nothing I said made any difference to him as far as his opinions went on the Catholic Church. I never once made even a slight remark about the Methodist faith.

My point is, there are still people who see the Catholic Church as the middle ages Catholic Church and not the Church we have today that professes love and tolerance for others but expects them to uphold the teaching of the faith and God.
 
schaubj57 said:
My point is, there are still people who see the Catholic Church as the middle ages Catholic Church and not the Church we have today that professes love and tolerance for others but expects them to uphold the teaching of the faith and God.
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How true. Times like this reminds me of Fr Barron’s video on the last acceptable prejudice:

youtube.com/watch?v=3T4-2ZXRl0Y
 
A Muslim should know if he goes to a Catholic University that it is a Christian institution and there will be crosses and other Christian symbols. The university should not be required to provide a space for the Islamic faith because that would give tacit approval for Islam. If it was reversed, the Islamic University would not give space for Christian worship or allow a cross.
 
hn160 said:
A Muslim should know if he goes to a Catholic University that it is a Christian institution and there will be crosses and other Christian symbols. The university should not be required to provide a space for the Islamic faith because that would give tacit approval for Islam. If it was reversed, the Islamic University would not give space for Christian worship or allow a cross.
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Good Point.

I’m not Catholic and this article annoyed me to no end. It’s a CATHOLIC university…I would not expect a Catholic University to provide me with a Lutheran MS club, or a special Lutheran’s only place to worship. If you attend a university that is associated with a particular religon or denomination, you are foolish to expect that they are going to make huge accomodations for an alternative denomination or religon. My response to these people would be to say “Get a life and if you want a Christian free place to pray go off campus”.
 
That is an amazing fact that is happening and is almost unbelievable.

But so was abortion and now it is legal to kill or abort a living baby in the mothers womb today?

I remember homosexuality was considered a sin in public schools now it is taught as normal behavior.

My point? Don’t take these revelations too lightly, there are more to come…

Hail Mary protector of the unborn pray for us…
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Kind of unbelievable that the U.S. Government’s Office of Human Rights says it has to spend 6 months investigating this.

How far should an officially Catholic university go in accomodating the wishes of other religions?
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No, Crosses at a Catholic University do not Violate Muslim Human Rights; however, **a Lack of Crosses at a Catholic University would clearly Violate Catholic Human Rights! **
 
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