Do Crosses at Catholic University Violate Muslim Human Rights?

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Christians in Muslim countries don’t do well. But then, President Obama DID say that the United States is no longer a Christian country.

Maybe what he meant that we may no longer display Christian symbols.

Anyway, read on:

jihadwatch.org/2011/11/report-egypt-randomly-arresting-copts-going-after-critics-after-armys-massacre-of-christians.html

jihadwatch.org/2011/11/nigeria-muslims-misunderstood-islam-shouted-allahu-akbar-as-they-murdered-67-in-gun-and-bomb-attacks.html
Well, to be honest, I’m not sure that America was ever a ‘Christian country,’ considering that most of the founding fathers were deists. Thomas Jefferson famously wrote The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, which was essentially a gospel with all of the miracles and the resurrection cut out, leaving only the non-objectionable (from a deist point of view) ‘moral teachings’ of Jesus.
 
Put it this way then, if one took islam and allah was taken out of it, what basically would be left would be very similar to communism. One could look at communism and see it has the same goals and ambition, the same M.O. and memes as islam except for the part about allah. The whole ideal of the islamic state is very similar to the Communist state.

If I recall you were doing the “striking” in your post:

That so called “space that is under the bed” is allegedly where monsters live, fictitious monsters that scare children, maybe it’s better yet said the child lies awake on top of the bed frightened of things they imagine. Anyway I see through that statement I can not agree with the hidden sarcasm in your post because** Communism was not imagined**, there were real victims of Communism, countless death that occurred during the 20th Century because it.

Again with the “traditional American folk devils”? Why is Communism a “folk devil” only to Americans? Please tell how the forced man-made famines didn’t happen and millions didn’t die or the ethnic Germans, Jews and Ukrainian weren’t persecuted, that Churches Synagogues and mosques were not burnt to the ground, please Jharek tell us this didn’t happened under Communism, that this history isn’t real it’s some folk legend or fairytale.

Really it’s muslims who are proud of that islam is not theologically complex as Christianity, and they are in disagreement with some real important dogmas in Christian Theology. And it’s not just theological dogmas they are against it’s any semblance of Christianity which is the whole underlining point of this topic really not that Christian art violates the civil rights/human rights of muslims.
 
It’s a bit more complex than an objection to the Crucifix at a Catholic University. The title of the article is misleading and the issue is not over all Crosses but rather a request to have a single room, devoid of Catholic symbols and icons, in which they can use for their own use – prayer in this case. The University has been forcing them to use a Chapel.

However, in this case the University is wrong on the law – the title of the article is not what the issue is really about (intending to mislead the reader), and the simplest and correct solution is to allow them a room in which to pray – before they spend good money having the Courts force the issue. And the Church will lose on this one. Forcing them to pray in a Chapel is an egregious violation of religious freedom in our country. It does not matter what I or you believe about the Muslim faith itself. I wonder at why the Administration was not more mindful of this issue when they chose to admit Muslims? I wonder why the article wanted to mislead the reader as to the real circumstances?
Leegal, from your post, you appear to be somewhat confused about what freedom of religion actually entails. Freedom of religion is a guarantee that the GOVERNMENT will not establish a state religion or force us to renounce the religion of our choice. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

This does not by any means establish that a legal duty on the part of private, religiously-affiliated institutions to provide the necessary resources for worship to members of a different religion. I really don’t know where you are getting this idea from. It seems to me that you are confusing a negative right (freedom of religion as freedom from interference, as it is generally understood) with a positive right (freedom of religion as something that imposes duties on others to give me the resources I need to practice my religion, which would be a strange and heterodox interpretation of freedom of religion).
 
It’s a bit more complex than an objection to the Crucifix at a Catholic University. The title of the article is misleading and the issue is not over all Crosses but rather a request to have a single room, devoid of Catholic symbols and icons, in which they can use for their own use – prayer in this case. The University has been forcing them to use a Chapel.
Not according to the articles. The university has been allowing them to use empty classrooms in different areas of the university in order to meet thier prayer schedule. The lawyer is requesting that rooms be set aside for the purpose of Muslim prayer. The university hasn’t been “forcing” them to use any particular space.
I did not read that they want the Crosses removed – only for there to be a room that is devoid of Catholic symbols. If the University admits Muslim students and knew they were admitting them, then they should have been prepared for this eventuality.
The Muslim students didn’t request this. It was the brainchild of a GW professor.

What you are saying is that the University is in a no-win situation. If it admits only Christians, it is discriminatory but if it admits Muslims, it has to give up Catholicity.
The simplest course of action would be to find one room and devote it to them for their use – removed of any Catholic Crosses and other icons. Surely, there is one room somewhere in the University and the courts will look to the burden of finding an empty room to provide these students for prayer and find that the University can meet that burden.
The simplist course of action would be to make a rule that all non-Catholic worship occur off-campus.
And trust me on this one, as an American, I’m not likely to come to the defense of Muslims – have little interest in supporting the advancement of their self-interpreting religion-- because I actually think there are some times less obvious reasons for their demands and inconsistencies.
Keeping in mind that these demands do not come from Muslims.
However, in this case the University is wrong on the law – the title of the article is not what the issue is really about (intending to mislead the reader), and the simplest and correct solution is to allow them a room in which to pray – before they spend good money having the Courts force the issue. And the Church will lose on this one
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I agree the University is wrong. But where they went wrong was in trying to accomodate non-Catholic worship in the first place. They should have just made it clear from the beginnning that while members of other faiths are welcome, their worship must go off-campus. That’s how most religious universities operate. But Catholic ones have tried to be more welcoming.
Forcing them to pray in a Chapel is an egregious violation of religious freedom in our country.
No one is forced to pray in the chapel. Even if the chapel was the only space available, which it isn’t, the students would have had the option of going to their own dorms to pray.
It does not matter what I or you believe about the Muslim faith itself. I wonder at why the Administration was not more mindful of this issue when they chose to admit Muslims?
But it does matter what you and I believe about the Catholic faith and about Catholic education. Catholic schools have been admitting students of all faiths for generations. It is unrealistic for you to have expected them to predict this wacko prof’s tactics after decades of not having problems.
 
Soviet Union vs America was not the issue. 🤷

I’ve seen you in other threads going after other people, whether they deserve to be corrected or not is another issue, I do think that accusing me of “slurring” is tiny bit unfair because I was only pointing out the Church does have enemies.

You were not worried with the way you made light of impending threats that America has or had had to face by calling them “folk devils.”

Regardless whether or not the students were the impetus for the investigation into the violation of human rights, it is still a law suites and they are used as way at chipping away at rights in America, even though it is seems as insignificant to some it is still part of the Troubles the Church have to face worldwide.
 
The Bill of Rights gives the right to freedom for the practice of religion and wearing a cross is a practice of religion.
 
I don’t know if this point was brought out, so here goes anyway. I heard that no Muslim has complained; it is some law professor at another university who filed the lawsuit. What standing he has not been addressed. BTW, I don’t think it’s his first suit against a Catholic school.
 
Kind of unbelievable that the U.S. Government’s Office of Human Rights says it has to spend 6 months investigating this.

radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/muslims-want-catholic-school-to-provide-room-without-crosses.html

cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/

In fairness, this sounds like something that is being pursued by a non-Muslim, radically anti-Catholic law professor as well as Muslim students.

How far should an officially Catholic university go in accomodating the wishes of other religions?
This is ridiculous!
The U.S. Government decides to waste tax payer money to decide if a **Private Catholic School ** is being investigated to see if people who don’t even go to the School find it offensive.
 
This is ridiculous!
The U.S. Government decides to waste tax payer money to decide if a **Private Catholic School ** is being investigated to see if people who don’t even go to the School find it offensive.
This is not ridiculous if you understand how government bureaucracies operate. While government has a monopoly, its internal bureaucracies must compete intensely among themselves for funding. An agency that has few accomplishments to show for itself come program review time is ripe for de-funding when tax receipts are low, which is to say all the time. The ideal bureaucracy [from a political point of view] is one that is ever expanding so that [1] its survival is assured, and [2] ever higher salaries are justified.

Examples: [1] Have you ever noticed that whenever a paramedic team is called, the fire department arrives also even though there is no fire? It’s to add one more response to their numbers. [2] There are not enough rapes on campuses city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html to justify their crisis centers [also bureaucracies with a political goal], so the Office of Civil rights had to lower the standard of proof thefire.org/article/13142.html to bump up the numbers.

Capisce?
 
Kind of unbelievable that the U.S. Government’s Office of Human Rights says it has to spend 6 months investigating this.

radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/muslims-want-catholic-school-to-provide-room-without-crosses.html

cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/

In fairness, this sounds like something that is being pursued by a non-Muslim, radically anti-Catholic law professor as well as Muslim students.

How far should an officially Catholic university go in accomodating the wishes of other religions?
A Catholic University??!!

In view of the overt and crass persecution of Catholics in muslim countries all over the world - I’d say Catholic Universities need to stick to their Crucifixes.
 
It’s a bit more complex than an objection to the Crucifix at a Catholic University. The title of the article is misleading and the issue is not over all Crosses but rather a request to have a single room, devoid of Catholic symbols and icons, in which they can use for their own use – prayer in this case. The University has been forcing them to use a Chapel.
The university is not “forcing” them to do anything. It is allowing them to use a chapel for their worship services; something it has no obligation whatever to do. Why does anybody think any university is obligated to provide worship facilities for any religion? Did SMU build a chapel for Catholics? No. Did Baylor? No. Did Brigham Young? No. Did the University of Missouri? No. The Muslim students are free to find a place near the campus where they can conduct their own services, just as Catholics and others do all over the U.S.
 
You neglected to post the poll of Muslim students at CU showing how they all oppose this action. You only quoted one guy. I’ll check back later to read the poll results.
 
How could they be “pawns” if none are in any way participating in it? This guy has people who will testify. Be sure of it.
 
Catholic University is at 620 Michigan Ave NE, Washington, DC 20064; there is a Mosque at 1519 4th St NW, Washington, DC 20001; which is 0.8 mi from the university, an easily walkable distance. I have walked further to attend Mass on a holy day in the DC area. So the complainant has an ulterior motive that is not altruistic. :yup:
 
Of course not. It’s just how litigation works, and everybody knows that. It’s like knowing you can’t run a car without fuel. With no evidence and no witnesses to introduce any, this guy would not get past his first “discovery” session, and might well be sanctioned. Maybe that’s his plan, but one may reasonably doubt it.

Besides, pardner, no lawyer is obliged to disclose anything until “discovery” starts, and typically they don’t. Do you expect me to sneak into his office and go through his files?

Is a snipe hunt next on my “to do” list?
 
Never said it was. Your quotation seemed to assert that because one guy said the Muslim students were not in sympathy with the lawsuit, that none were. That is a sweeping generalization on his part (secondhand as well as unsupported, it seems) about at least A group of people, with nothing to support it but one guy’s quoted statement about it. And we’re supposed to draw broad conclusions from that? I don’t think so.
 
I see Jewish schools all over Brooklyn that have the star of David. I expect a Catholic school to have a cross. If they’re Muslim and they don’t want to see a cross, then they should build their own university.
 
Kind of unbelievable that the U.S. Government’s Office of Human Rights says it has to spend 6 months investigating this.

radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/muslims-want-catholic-school-to-provide-room-without-crosses.html

cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/

In fairness, this sounds like something that is being pursued by a non-Muslim, radically anti-Catholic law professor as well as Muslim students.

How far should an officially Catholic university go in accomodating the wishes of other religions?
Muslims feel their right to practise their religion is being undermined by the teaching of christ and his church!
The right to look at other women lustfully to have more then one wife!
 
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