Do Democrats Know How Radical Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare For All' Plan Is?

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

First world countries with socialized medicine beat the US pretty handily in per capita cost, infant mortality and life expectancy. So I’m not sure you’re objectively correct here.

This is a very deceptive statistic. There isn’t a uniform method for measuring infant mortality. The US uses a much more liberal method of recording infant mortality than other countries. Life expectancy is tricky too. Americans of European or Asian descent have life expediencies that are very similar, if not superior to their European or Asian cousins. Americans of African descent actually have superior life expediencies to their African cousins. The differences are better explained by genetic and lifestyle differences than to quality of health care.

It’s not the only statistic cited. But I suspect in any case:

When the facts don’t support you, “deny, deny, deny”, right?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

We already spend more on healthcare, per capita, than virtually any other nation on the planet. There are better systems and all of them are a form of single-payer.

Incorrect. We spend more on our healthcare because prices are not controlled by the market and completely arbitrary. Our litigation system is out of control. Single payer healthcare would only make things worse until they fix that.

 

[tomarin]

Vonsalza:

First world countries with socialized medicine beat the US pretty handily in per capita cost, infant mortality and life expectancy. So I’m not sure you’re objectively correct here.

This is a very deceptive statistic. There isn’t a uniform method for measuring infant mortality. The US uses a much more liberal method of recording infant mortality than other countries. Life expectancy is tricky too. Americans of European or Asian descent have life expediencies that are very similar, if not superior to their European or Asian cousins. Americans of African descent actually have superior life expediencies to their African cousins. The differences are better explained by genetic and lifestyle differences than to quality of health care.

Wouldn’t income (i.e. wealth) be a better predictor of life expectancy than race? That is, I would imagine white but poor Appalachians to name one example wouldn’t have a life expectancy superior to their European cousins?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yeah unlike sites like WSJ which wrote against Romneycare and Obamacare, I have experience with both as I live here.

I also know others here in MA who praised Romneycare.

Unless you have the experience, you’re just posting political points

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Medicare isn’t for people on welfare. You’re thinking of medicaid.

Your statement only betrays your ignorance on the subject.

Jim

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I lived in MA during that time so pardon my french…it sucked. I did live in one of the most depressed parts of the states where the uninsured outnumbered the insured by nearly twice. So my experience could very well be different than those, say, closer to Boston.

An over-crowded waiting room with a copious cases of the sniffles lead to a near life and death situation with over a week in the hospital for me, as it took nearly 2 hours to be triaged. (once triaged I was nearly sent to the ICU)

Thank God I no longer live there.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I live in Central Mass and saw the benefits to the ER’s when Romneycare passed.

At the time, I was still employed.

However, when I lost my job at age 60, I also lost my health insurance.

Thank God I was able to buy affordable insurance through the MA Connector, for one year later, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. Surgery saved my life and the insurance covered it.

People who had health insurance, no longer had to use the ER for common ailments. They called the PM.

It did take a year for Romneycare to kick in, but overall it was a success, which is why the Federal Government built the ACA from Romneycare, using the same guy who created it.

Jim

 

[anon27816918]

I hate to inform you that social security is welfare. So is medicare. Your statement only betrays your ignorance of the subject.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I hate to inform you that social security is welfare. So is medicare. Your statement only betrays your ignorance of the subject.

The term “welfare” and the American Welfare System are two different things. So you’re right, social security fits in the definition of “welfare” however it is extremely different than the Welfare System which is not given based on what was previously put into the system.

 

[anon27816918]

Actually, social security is not based on what you put in. It is based on earnings that have been artificially inflated. So there is a redistribution from current workers to current retirees. The early entrants into the system made out like bandits. Younger people will not fare so well. That wouldn’t be a problem if it were really based on how much people actually earned.

 

[niceatheist]

ucfengr:

Vonsalza:

First world countries with socialized medicine beat the US pretty handily in per capita cost, infant mortality and life expectancy. So I’m not sure you’re objectively correct here.

This is a very deceptive statistic. There isn’t a uniform method for measuring infant mortality. The US uses a much more liberal method of recording infant mortality than other countries. Life expectancy is tricky too. Americans of European or Asian descent have life expediencies that are very similar, if not superior to their European or Asian cousins. Americans of African descent actually have superior life expediencies to their African cousins. The differences are better explained by genetic and lifestyle differences than to quality of health care.

Wouldn’t income (i.e. wealth) be a better predictor of life expectancy than race? That is, I would imagine white but poor Appalachians to name one example wouldn’t have a life expectancy superior to their European cousins?

I doubt the above poster could post any study that demonstrates that the genetics of a large population significantly affects health outcomes. Health outcomes are large due to economics.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I doubt the above poster could post any study that demonstrates that the genetics of a large population significantly affects health outcomes. Health outcomes are large due to economics.

Yes and no. While it’s true that health outcomes are largely due to economics you can’t avoid all issues by economics alone. Some diseases are really only found among people of a certain race. Like Familial Mediterranean fever…it’s deeply rooted in people with Mediterranean roots to the exclusion of most other races.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No it’s not welfare.

To be eligible to receive SS benefits, you had to have paid into it.

Not so welfare.

Also, if you have a parent or grandparent collecting SS benefits, you’re already receiving the benefits yourself, for if not for SS, they’d have to rely on your financial support.

Jim

 

[anon27816918]

If it was not welfare, but a contract, then Congress would not have the legal authority to end it. But if Congress ended it tomorrow, recipients would have no legal ability to sue. There is no contractual obligation, benefits are determined by whatever way Congress sees fit to determine benefits. Classic welfare program. Also, what makes you think I would be supporting my parents? They saved for their retirement, they also worked into their 70s. No need to support the able bodied.

 

[ProVobis]

Sanders entire platform is based on crazy, untenable promises given by people who will never be affected by them to those who will get what they “want” but suffer in other ways and be happy about it.

Medicare is a known quantity and it can be more easily accepted by the U.S. population even if it’s not universal, such as extensions to age 55 or 50. Unlike the ACA or anything the Republicans can pass.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You can bet if Congress tried to end SS benefits for those who are retired or on disability, there would be a lawsuit brought up the US Supreme Court.

No politician will dare threaten people on SS with a campaign promise to end it

SS is not welfare, you failed at that accusation.

Jim

 

[niceatheist]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Sanders entire platform is based on crazy, untenable promises given by people who will never be affected by them to those who will get what they “want” but suffer in other ways and be happy about it.

Medicare is a known quantity and it can be more easily accepted by the U.S. population even if it’s not universal, such as extensions to age 55 or 50. Unlike the ACA or anything the Republicans can pass.

And yet, when the Republicans attempted to repeal the ACA, it caused wide-spread discontent among voters and a mutiny among Republican lawmakers.

 

[anon27816918]

The lawsuit would never make it to the supreme court, there never would even be a trial because no law would have been broken.

 

[ProVobis]

If you believes that they will get really good healthcare under the Bernie system, they are fooling themselves. There will be rationing and the quality of care will be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

Point taken. There are doctors who don’t accept Medicare as it is. And perhaps even more doctors won’t accept an expanded Medicare. But those who can’t afford insurance can’t get them anyway.

I wouldn’t say the quality is guaranteed to go down, though.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Wouldn’t income (i.e. wealth) be a better predictor of life expectancy than race? That is, I would imagine white but poor Appalachians to name one example wouldn’t have a life expectancy superior to their European cousins?

Undoubtedly income would have some effect. But it’s entirely possible that the average life expectancy in some backwoods West Virginia town is higher than that in Paris IF the people in WVa are older, on average than Parisians. Life expectancy is a statistical thing, and does not tell you anything about average longevity. The older we get, the longer is our life expectancy. A 70 year old’s “life expectancy” is ALWAYS higher than that of a 20 year old, because of the risks of getting from 20 to 70. A lot of things can kill you in 50 years.