Do Eastern Catholics believe in Mortal/Venial Sins??

[Bookcat]

Frankly, whether this is intended or not, your posts most always come across as very anti-Eastern. They purposely emphasize universality of thought, theology, and obligation, whereas the Catholic Church herself embraces unity in diversity (see below, as an example).

Huh?

Never anti- Eastern. Only anti-misuderstanding of what has been proposed as “Eastern Catholic” where as it is simply not. I have quoted left and right not only documents of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church but also from Eastern Catholic Sites and Patriarchs.

Look if someone came here and said “Eastern Catholics do not accept the Pope”. Well I am going to say yes they most certainly do.

Or if they a Protestant came and said “Eastern Catholics are not allowed to read the Bible” I am going to say most certainly are and are very encouraged to do so.

Likewise if someone says “Eastern Catholics do not believe in mortal sin and venial sin” I am going to say --yes they most certainly do.

Why? Because all Catholics accept the Pope as the Successor of Peter, and all Catholics can of course read the Bible and are very encouraged to do so and all Catholics are to believe that there is such a thing as mortal and venial sin --even if terms or spiritualitieson how to work on them etc can yes vary.

 

[Bookcat]

How many times have we went around this table before? There is a difference between East and West. Why would Blessed Pope John Paul II even write Orientale Lumen and ask the Latins to learn the East if there is no difference anyway?

He is one who would tell you that what I have said is correct. Mortal sin is a reality that is East and West … it must be confessed. And of course there are light sins too (what the term “venial” came to be attached to).

I have Always recognized there are certainly different approaches, spiritualites etc East and West.

That is not in question.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Likewise if someone says “Eastern Catholics do not believe in mortal sin and venial sin” I am going to say --yes they most certainly do.

You have equated three conditional situations that are not at all equal.

As for the latter one, the subject of this thread, I can only say that the case you present here has not been made with “cradle” Eastern Catholics on this board, all faithful Catholics too, and that should be an indication that perhaps the argumentative approach and/or evidential matter is flawed.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Why? Because all Catholics accept the Pope as the Successor of Peter, and all Catholics can of course read the Bible and are very encouraged to do so and all Catholics are to believe that there is such a thing as mortal and venial sin --even if terms or spiritualitieson how to work on them etc can yes vary.

See, the problem with this reasoning is you just took out 2000 years of authentic theological development in the East, one that Popes themselves accept as distinct and themselves would love to preserve as it is. You just deduced a conclusion without actually even trying to understand the nature of Eastern Christianity. Having “friends” who are Eastern Catholics doesn’t make you an authority to be one. I have Sikh friends, do you think I should be telling them what they should believe? Not just because you served at the altar means you know it all. I started serving before I even know the proper order of the Divine Liturgy, much less understand the spirituality and praxis.

Trust us, your understanding of it is wrong. If you really want to debate this then take time to learn it first. Don’t just google stuff up and make assumptions. Every thread you have been heavily involved in has turned into an argument. Maybe it is time to take a step back. Learn what the East is about first. Faith is not something you just read off a few paragraphs on one parish website.

 

[Bookcat]

As for the latter one, the subject of this thread, I can only say that the case you present here has not been made with “cradle” Eastern Catholics on this board, all faithful Catholics too, and that should be an indication that perhaps the argumentative approach and/or evidential matter is flawed.

In MISERICORDIA DEI Pope John Paul II repeated:

"…the Council of Trent declared that it is necessary “by divine decree to confess each and every mortal sin”.(7) "

And he notes at the end of the document:

“All that I have decreed in this Letter is, by its nature, valid for the venerable Oriental Catholic Churches in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code.”

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, on 7 April, the Second Sunday of Easter, the Feast of Divine Mercy, in the year of our Lord 2002, the twenty-fourth of my Pontificate.

JOHN PAUL II

–Such is part of the Catholic Faith. East and West. And it is by divine decree.

 

[ConstantineTG]

He is one who would tell you that what I have said is correct. Mortal sin is a reality that is East and West … it must be confessed. And of course there are light sins too (what the term “venial” came to be attached to).

I have Always recognized there are certainly different approaches, spiritualites etc East and West.

That is not in question.

He knows it is different. That is why he came up with Theology of the Body, which is basically a Western understanding of Theosis. He knows that the East has something the West doesn’t, and he knows the West has something the East doesn’t. That is why he says as much in Orientale Lumen. And Theology of the Body is one of those works where he tries to blend Eastern thought into Western theology.

 

[Bookcat]

As for the latter one, the subject of this thread, I can only say that the case you present here has not been made with “cradle” Eastern Catholics on this board, all faithful Catholics too, and that should be an indication that perhaps the argumentative approach and/or evidential matter is flawed.

In MISERICORDIA DEI Pope John Paul II repeated:

"…the Council of Trent declared that it is necessary “by divine decree to confess each and every mortal sin”.(7) "

And he notes at the end of the document:

“All that I have decreed in this Letter is, by its nature, valid for the venerable Oriental Catholic Churches in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code.”

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, on 7 April, the Second Sunday of Easter, the Feast of Divine Mercy, in the year of our Lord 2002, the twenty-fourth of my Pontificate.

JOHN PAUL II

–Such is part of the Catholic Faith. East and West. And it is by divine decree.

 

[ConstantineTG]

“All that I have decreed in this Letter is, by its nature, valid for the venerable Oriental Catholic Churches in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code.”

This simply means we are free to do what it is in our praxis, which is what I have been saying all along.

 

[Bookcat]

This simply means we are free to do what it is in our praxis, which is what I have been saying all along.

So long as that “Praxis” means that one confesses all mortal sins (and all that is related to the Teaching of the Church there in involved).

And points them to the Eastern Code … “in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code.” Which states the same that there are serious sins that need to be confessed and other sins.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

In MISERICORDIA DEI Pope John Paul II repeated:

"…the Council of Trent declared that it is necessary “by divine decree to confess each and every mortal sin”.(7) "

What you fail to recognize is that any well formed Eastern Christian would view that as a minimum. So, of course we can say that we accept the Pontiff’s judgment on this matter, and he would have (in his day - Vicnaja Pamjat, Vladyko!) agreed that Eastern & Oriental praxis is compliant with this mandate.

Simply put, we don’t limit ourselves when considering the need to confess.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Invoking the name of the Lord in the Jesus Prayer, we constantly remind ourselves of our sinful state and nature. The gravity or lack thereof of a single act is never greater than the very condition that must be overcome, in order to complete our spiritual journey and transformation.

Please give Google a rest, and share in the experience of the Divine Liturgy with some of your Eastern friends. Before you know it, you’ll be seeing things from a different perspective, yet realize its not through a different lens.

 

[ConstantineTG]

So long as that “Praxis” means that one confesses all mortal sins (and all that is related to the Teaching of the Church there in involved).

And points them to the Eastern Code …

Who are you to make this determination? Our praxis does not say that, therefore we follow it regardless of what you say.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Gee Bookcat, I just took my time to give a good answer to the best of my ability to mardukm’s question and here you are running the page count again with this burying that post in the thread. What is your goal here? Does it make you a better Roman Catholic knowing that you’ve made Eastern Catholics more like Roman Catholics?

 

[Bookcat]

What you fail to recognize is that any well formed Eastern Christian would view that as a minimum. So, of course we can say that we accept the Pontiff’s judgment on this matter, and he would have (in his day - Vicnaja Pamjat, Vladyko!) agreed that Eastern & Oriental praxis is consistent with this notion.

Simply put, we don’t limit ourselves when considering the need to confess.

Invoking the name of the Lord in the Jesus Prayer, we constantly remind ourselves of our sinful state and nature. The gravity or lack thereof of a single act is not great than the very condition that must be overcome.

.

Of course --neither do we Let us go onward and more and more be conformed to Christ.

But that was NOT the question. The question of the thread was:

Q: Do Eastern Catholics believe in Mortal/Venial Sins??

And the answer I gave was:

A: Yes for they are Christians in the various Catholic Churches that make up the Catholic Church. Though they may use different terms etc.

---

Now could much more be said about compunction …gift of tears…various ways of living practically the Christian life from the various Eastern Churches approaches or approaches within them? Yes most certainly.

As there could from the Roman Church and the various approaches and Spiritualites etc therein. The Catholic Church is very very rich in all her different Rites and Churches and Spiritualities etc etc. Thanks be to God for such splendid gifts!

I was introduced to the various Eastern Churches --from the very portal of my entry into the Catholic Church. Splendid beauty and reality!

 

[Bookcat]

Who are you to make this determination? Our praxis does not say that, therefore we follow it regardless of what you say.

It is by divine decree. All Catholics are to confess all mortal sins (of course there can be cases of impossibility --like one does not remember them or moral impossibility but that is not what is under discussion). I refer you to the Eastern Code and to Bl. Pope John Paul II (who notes such and even says that no custom etc can change that) and CDF.

I am of little matter. This is part of the Catholic Faith.

 

[Bookcat]

What you fail to recognize is that any well formed Eastern Christian would view that as a minimum. So, of course we can say that we accept the Pontiff’s judgment on this matter, and he would have (in his day - Vicnaja Pamjat, Vladyko!) agreed that Eastern & Oriental praxis is consistent with this notion.

Simply put, we don’t limit ourselves when considering the need to confess.

Invoking the name of the Lord in the Jesus Prayer, we constantly remind ourselves of our sinful state and nature. The gravity or lack thereof of a single act is not great than the very condition that must be overcome.

.

Of course --neither do we Let us go onward and more and more be conformed to Christ.

But that was NOT the question. The question of the thread was:

Q: Do Eastern Catholics believe in Mortal/Venial Sins??

And the answer I gave was:

A: Yes for they are Christians in the various Catholic Churches that make up the Catholic Church. Though they may use different terms etc.

---

Now could much more be said about compunction …gift of tears…various ways of living practically the Christian life from the various Eastern Churches approaches or approaches within them? Yes most certainly.

As there could from the Roman Church and the various approaches and Spiritualites etc therein. The Catholic Church is very very rich in all her different Rites and Churches and Spiritualities etc etc. Thanks be to God for such splendid gifts!

I was introduced to the various Eastern Churches --from the very portal of my entry into the Catholic Church. Splendid beauty and reality!

 

[ConstantineTG]

It is by divine decree.

Do you have the stone tablets to prove it?

All Catholics are to confess all mortal sins (of course there can be cases of impossibility --like one does not remember them or moral impossibility but that is not what is under discussion). I refer you to the Eastern Code and to Bl. Pope John Paul II and CDF.

Our Eastern Code is in the Fathers.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Maybe we should turn the tables here and ask, why do Latins only confess when they commit Mortal Sins? The Eastern praxis say we should confess often, regardless of committed sins.

 

[Bookcat]

Do you have the stone tablets to prove it?

.

Pope John Paul II repeated:

Quote:

"…the Council of Trent declared that it is necessary “by divine decree to confess each and every mortal sin”.(7) "

And he notes at the end of the document:

“All that I have decreed in this Letter is, by its nature, valid for the venerable Oriental Catholic Churches in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code.”

Given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, on 7 April, the Second Sunday of Easter, the Feast of Divine Mercy, in the year of our Lord 2002, the twenty-fourth of my Pontificate.

JOHN PAUL II

 

[ConstantineTG]

in conformity with the respective Canons of their own Code

We do follow this clause, even though you deny it.

 

[Bookcat]

Maybe we should turn the tables here and ask, why do Latins only confess when they commit Mortal Sins? The Eastern praxis say we should confess often, regardless of committed sins.

Huh?

Some may.

But Many many many go regularly for venial sins.

I go weekly.

The confession of venial sins is highly recommended to all Catholics (East and West).