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East_and_West
Guest
Because we “Catholic Trads” represent the those in the Church who have not adopted the warm fuzzies of modernism but, rather, continue to uphold the faith of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
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Mickey
Guest
Bravo! :clapping:
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East_and_West
Guest
Well, looks like we have a fan in the EO camp.
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Hesychios
Guest
How many times do I have to post on this?
I never said Cardinal Hussar stated the Papacy requires Byzantine Catholics to accept something as vague as “Latin theological concepts”. I said I picked up the term “Latin theological constructs”, from him. :juggle:
Michael
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Diak
Guest
If I remember correctly, Patriarch Lubomyr used the term (or something along those lines) originally when speaking of the need to develop our own particular UGCC Catechism with our own Greek Catholic theological perspective, and not rely entirely on “Latin theological constructs”. The UGCC Catechism is currently being drafted.
FDRLB
FDRLB
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roncriss
Guest
Your point is moot because we obedient Catholics, who lack the spiritual pride and hubris necessary to presume to instruct popes over aesthetic issues of bells and smells, have not adopted the warm fuzzies of modernism either. Disobedience to the Magisterium has never been the Catholic Faith.
“None has ever been so rash as to oppose the apostolic primacy, the judgement of which may not be revised; none rebels against it, unless he would judge in his turn.”
Boniface[regn A.D. 418-422],To Rufus and bishops of Macedonia,in GILES,231
Ron
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Diak
Guest
I’ll see if I can dig up the original quote - don’t remember if it was Ukrainian or English.
FDRLB
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roncriss
Guest
Thanks in advance. I suspect is has been altered, paraphrased or taken out of context. I don’t believe the Magisterium ever suggested that Byzantine Catholics must accept “Latin theological concepts”.
Ron
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Aramis
Guest
Unfortunately, a great many schismatics hide behind the Traditionalist label, too. Some knowingly, others in blissful ignorance.
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roncriss
Guest
Aramis,
I distinguish between the obedient traditionalists (small “t”) who simply prefer the older ritual and trappings, and the Traditionalists who think to correct the Magisterium over things such as Vatican II an the Novus Ordo Mass, some remain within the Church but some, such as the SSPX, go to the point of schism. Their “traditionalism”, the replacement of the Magisterium’s authority with that of traditions, becomes heresy. There is nothing wrong with an aesthetic preference for bells and smells as long as one doesn’t question the fact that an ecumenical council required reform of the Roman liturgy.
Ron
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Hesychios
Guest
"We were told: If you want to be a real Catholic, you have to be Latin."
Lubomyr Cardinal Husar UGCC Lviv, 26 January 2004
He is also a beacon of hope for many. One may love him or one may hate him, his critics are legion, but he is in a tough position doing the job for Christ.
His words are worth paying attention to, if Christian unity is ever possible in our lifetimes I believe it will be because of the tireless work of men like Archbishop Elias Zoghby of Baalbek of blessed memory, Archbishop Vsevolod of Skopelos of blessed memory and Archbishop Lubomyr Husar.
Lubomyr Cardinal Husar UGCC Lviv, 26 January 2004
Excerpts…
Cardinal Lubomyr has some hard things to say to both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics about the situation of the Ukrainian Catholics. He is very blunt.
He is also a beacon of hope for many. One may love him or one may hate him, his critics are legion, but he is in a tough position doing the job for Christ.
His words are worth paying attention to, if Christian unity is ever possible in our lifetimes I believe it will be because of the tireless work of men like Archbishop Elias Zoghby of Baalbek of blessed memory, Archbishop Vsevolod of Skopelos of blessed memory and Archbishop Lubomyr Husar.
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jj2011
Guest
I don’t see anything outrageous in the notion that Latins could be enriched by learning some good eastern theology and vice-versa.
After the liturgical disaster of Vatican II, a significant number of Latins sought refuge in Catholic eastern churches. To me this was providential, and resulted in a renewed appreciation for the beauty of eastern liturgy.
After the liturgical disaster of Vatican II, a significant number of Latins sought refuge in Catholic eastern churches. To me this was providential, and resulted in a renewed appreciation for the beauty of eastern liturgy.
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NancyCNM
Guest
Bingo! I agree. That is why my parents officially changed our family to the Eastern Rite when we were all children. My mom was a Catholic convert. I grew up knowing both the Latin and Byzantine and I have an equal love for both rites, but I favor the Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil, the vespers,the Third Hour. the lenten services…
At first I thought this would be an interesting thread. As it turns out, what I am reading is consisting of several people being very critical of one another, while claiming to be Catholic and claiming knowledge of the Church. “And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehand all mysteries and all knowledge;…but do not have love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:2
The “greatest of these is LOVE” my friends, and I hope some of you can back off and perhaps look at some the the beauty of our church both East and West- without getting so caught up in the details.
St Therese in her “Little Way” is also a Doctor of the Church guys. Perhaps people who are not Catholic might sit up and take notice of you and want to be more like you if your words and actions reflected those of Christ.
So, with this I will end my post
“May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to think in harmony with one another, in keeping with Christ Jesus, that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” Romans 15:5-6
Nancy
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Diak
Guest
Well stated - especially by His Beatutide (not too bad yourself, Michael). Many Years, Mnohaya lita Vladyko, eis polla eti, Despota! (In the “love him” camp here…
)FDRLB
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East_and_West
Guest
Your point is moot because we obedient traditional Catholics, who lack the spiritual pride necessary to abandon thousands of years of Christian tradition and the faith handed down from the Apostles in favor of nonsense such nonsense as clown masses and liturgical dancing, are truely the ones who have not adopted the warm fuzzies fo modernism. Disobedience to the Magesterium has never been the Catholic faith.
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East_and_West
Guest
A true traditionalist would never partake in schism.
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Aramis
Guest
None the less, it is applied (quite often, and even by the moderators here) to groups in schism, including some sedevaticanists.
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roncriss
Guest
As I suspected this “they” is not the Magisterium. In fact he doesn’t really tell us who this “they” is, does he? There may have been pressure, both externally and internally, to Latinize. In fact the Ukranians seem to have bent over backwards to do so, in comparison with other Uniate churches.
I am reminded of some lines from the film “The Duelists”:
“Yes, now I recall something else. He said to me in a public street…I have it burnt in my mind. He said to me…“For all that I care, they can spit upon Napoleon Bonaparte.””
“Who were they?”
“They, they! When did the emperor not have enemies?”
Ron
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roncriss
Guest
"Who are these “Latins”? I don’t know any Latins. I’ve been Catholic for decades and never met a single Latin. Maybe some Latin Americans. Do you mean “Latinos”?
Ron
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Woodstock
Guest
It is the term most commonly used here to distinguish Roman Catholics (of the Latin Rite of the Latin Church) from other Catholics. We’re frequently told that Roman Catholic is derogatory and Latin Catholic is the accurate term which avoids that. Then we hear that Latin Catholic is derogatory and we should use Roman Catholic. Then we hear that Roman Catholic means only novus ordo Roman Catholics while Latin Catholic means traditional Catholics. Then we hear that novus ordo is incorrect and it should be ordinary form and extraordinary form. Then we hear that extraordinary form is offensive and we should use Latin Catholic to mean traditional Catholics. Then we hear that traditional Catholic is offensive to the *novus ordo *Catholics and implies schismatic Catholics. Then the argument is over the meaning of traditional versus traditionalist Catholics and if either are both are offensive. Then we get into if the SSPX are schismatic.
I suggest that you accept that Latin Catholic is the term used here with the least amount of baggage or complaint to refer to those people who belong to the Latin rite of the Latin Church in order to distinguish them from other rites of the Latin Church and from Catholics of other Churches.
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