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Merrick
Guest
Do Eastern Catholics obtain indulgences? How do they understand this practice? How does it fit into Eastern theology?
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jpotato
Guest
let’s go to side table drawer and get our handy-dandy enchiridion of indulgences.
they can, because they are still catholic in union with the roman church. no one except the pope can say that an action gives a plenary indulgence. bishops and patriarchs can grant partial indulgences in certain suituations.
the 1968 enchiridion says:
they can, because they are still catholic in union with the roman church. no one except the pope can say that an action gives a plenary indulgence. bishops and patriarchs can grant partial indulgences in certain suituations.
the 1968 enchiridion says:
why do you think that they would not be able to? AFAIK they are available to all Catholics who meet the normal requirements, meaning confession, receiving the Eucharist and a prayer for the intentions of the pope. i have no idea about the practice of eastern orthodox peeps.
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phil19034
Guest
Yes. They are Catholics
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Bradthecatholic
Guest
They are Catholics so yes!
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Merrick
Guest
I haven’t made my question clear enough. I know all Catholics can obtain indulgences. But do most Eastern Catholics seek to? How might such a person understand the practice within the context of their Eastern spirituality?
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Miserissima
Guest
Both Eastern and Latin Catholics have the opportunity to utilize, if you will, indulgences as found in the Enchiridion.
As far as seeking the opportunity, the option is equally available to both. The same “normal conditions” apply. For Plenary Indulgences, that is:
—have the intention to receive the indulgence
—have sacramentally confessed one’s sins (within an eight day period before or after day of indulgence)
—receive the Holy Eucharist (within an eight day period before or after day of indulgence);
—pray for the intentions of the Holy Father (6 Paters and 6 Aves)
—perform the prescribed action of the indulgence
—have the interior disposition of complete detachment from sin, even venial sin.
Now, do Eastern Catholics seek out this spiritual treasure? Just as in the Latin Church, it depends on the awareness of the indulgence, the intent and ability to fulfill the norms, and disposition of the person.
Indulgences can fit within a personal practice, and are valid. But they’re not necessary, so it’s left to a person’s conscience and guidance of the Holy Spirit. If a person of either Church is inclined to make an indulgence, he or she may.
Note, however, that the concept of purgatory is treated differently in the Eastern Church, so indulgences may not carry the same…how to say this…weight of importance as Latin Catholics view them.
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phil19034
Guest
There are a lot of Roman Rite Catholics who do not know about indulgences. If I were a betting man, I would assume that more than 50% of Roman Rite Catholics in America do not even know how to receive an indulgence. 
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MorEphrem
Guest
I’m not certain about Byzantine theology, but in Syriac theology an indulgence would be redundant because if someone has received the remission of sin (e.g. through absolution or the reception of communion) than the entirety of their sin is forgiven - there isn’t some lingering temporal punishment aspect. If there were, that would be to say God’s mercy is either limited or not as vast as Scripture and Tradition tells us it is, or that He does not have entire authority over Judgment. Indulgences are an exclusively Latin practice as such and if any Eastern Catholics seek them out it’s because they are adhering to a Latin practice and not an authentically Eastern practice.
I’m not looking to create contention, I’m simply responding to the question posed by the OP.
I’m not looking to create contention, I’m simply responding to the question posed by the OP.
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Vico
Guest
Byzantine Bishop Andrew Pataki declared the Basilian Monastery Basilian Fathers Of Mariapoch in Matawan NJ and the Cathedral of Saint Michael the Archangel, Passaic NJ as the designated pilgrimage sites for reception of a plenary indulgence for the Holy Year (1999-2001).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has that sin has a double consequence:
- eternal - loss of communion with God, and
- temporal - unhealthy attachment to creatures
CCC 1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
Yes! :clapping:
What MorEphrem has to say here applies to Byzantine theology as well (and is actually a point of contention between Roman Catholics and Eastern/Byzantine Orthodox). The idea of indulgences is simply outside the theology of the Byzantine tradition and, in fact, conflicts with it in the sames ways that MorEphrem describes above.
The fact that some Eastern Catholics (whether laymen or in the hierarchy) speak about obtaining indulgences and designate pilgrimage sites to receive an indulgence, does nothing but illustrate the extent to which Latin/Roman thinking has infiltrated Eastern Catholic thought over the last few centuries.
As a brief caveat, I’m not saying that indulgences are bad or that they are not legitimate. What I am saying is that the Latin theology of indulgences is simply completely foreign to authentic Eastern thought.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
His Grace Bishop Pataki is recognized among many Eastern Catholics as not being the most “Eastern-minded” of bishops. One would do better to discuss the issue with Bishops John Michael Botean, John Kudrick, and/or Nicholas Samra. Heck, you could always just go straight to the top and talk to Patriarch Gregorios III; I’m sure he’d have a good deal to say on the matter.
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Vico
Guest
What is the objective standard for eastern minded?
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dvdjs
Guest
Excellent question.
Hope an excellent discussion follows.
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MorEphrem
Guest
Well for starters, one who possesses an eastern mind wouldn’t quote Latin canons and codes in place of theology.
To speak of an objective “eastern” mind would be difficult because of the different traditions in the East. Again, I will deal with what I know. An “objectively” Syro-Maronite mentality would probably be something consistent with the organic theological development from Pentecost to the Synod of Mt. Lebanon [1736] when Latin theology was abruptly and inorganically imposed. As an example, the sudden anathematizing of infant communion shows a discontinuity with the practice of the Maronite Church for the two millennia prior. There’s something to be said about the legitimacy of organic tradition constituting the “objective” mentality of a group, especially since popes since Leo XIII have been exhorting us to return to our traditional patrimonies. The kind of rigid mechanical nature of indulgences is inconsistent with a Syro-Maronite mentality (to focus on what I know). I’m not saying indulgences are outside the Latin Church hierarchy’s oikonomia but it’s an example of inorganic imposition.
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Vico
Guest
Well it is an interesting topic, and especially so when considering the Antiochian influences in the various sui iuris Churches, especially the Melkites who came in time to the jurisdiction of Constantinople. Melkite Bishop John wrote: You ask whether or not Eastern Catholics are to believe in indulgences. Yes, I too have heard some folks remark that the doctrine is incompatible with Eastern theology, however, they are sadly mistaken.
The notion of an indulgence that removes the temporal punishment due to sin is deeply rooted in the theological consciousness of both East and West. While it is an explicit doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, and thus a doctrine that we Eastern Catholics accept as we walk with the successor of Peter, you will find ample evidence of our Eastern affirmation of the cleansing of the soul after death as we progress towards the moment when, through God’s generosity, we are admitted to eternal intimacy with Him.
When we look, for example, at the prayers that comprise the Sacrament of Holy Anointing that we celebrate as part of our observance of Holy Week, we find there, in several of the prayers, the notion that God’s healing comes to us as we submit ourselves to His cleansing grace. Repeatedly, the priest prays for a purification from the effects of sin, the complete remission of the effects of sin, and for a healing that penetrates both body and soul. Many of the sacred traditions of our Eastern Church that deal with our prayers of suffrage for the dead speak of our plea that the Lord will wipe away the effects of sin, cleanse us and the faithful departed from its effects so that they might enter fully into the kingdom.
The Church, as the living, mystical Body of Christ, dispenses the mercy of God in many ways. We find that the doctrine of indulgences is a beautiful expression of the Church’s role in bringing salvation and healing to both the living and the dead. Feel secure in the teachings of the Church. I suggest that you read No. 1471 of the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church that Pope John Paul II addressed to all Venerable Cardinals, Patriarchs, Bishops, Priests and to all faithful [of the East and West.] This is a jubilee year of abundant graces and many indulgences. We do well to take advantage of its many blessings.
melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/why-is-it-that-we-pray-for-the-dead-what-is-the-eastern-view-of-indulgences
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malphono
Guest
Indeed. And part of the problem is that the matter of indulgences is one of those things that so many “Eastern” apologists will try rationalize in order to justify an alien (and inorganic) imposition.
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Jack007
Guest
I belong to the syromalabar church, second largest eastern church, evangelised by st thomas the apostle, having no shortage of priests(my church has three, there are churches every few kilometres, we send priests to foreign nations).
We believe in indulgences, with beliefs similar to latin rite but differ on purgatory. We call it bes purkana, house of salvation in syriac.
According to wikipedia,
The prayers specifically mentioned in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum are not of the Latin Rite tradition alone, but also from the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Akathistos, Paraklesis, Evening Prayer, and Prayer for the Faithful Departed (Byzantine), Prayer of Thanksgiving (Armenian), Prayer of the Shrine and the Lakhu Mara (Chaldean), Prayer of Incense and Prayer to Glorify Mary the Mother of God (Coptic), Prayer for the Remission of Sins and Prayer to Follow Christ (Ethiopian), Prayer for the Church, and Prayer of Leave-taking from the Altar (Maronite), and Intercessions for the Faithful Departed (Syrian).
We believe in indulgences, with beliefs similar to latin rite but differ on purgatory. We call it bes purkana, house of salvation in syriac.
According to wikipedia,
The prayers specifically mentioned in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum are not of the Latin Rite tradition alone, but also from the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Akathistos, Paraklesis, Evening Prayer, and Prayer for the Faithful Departed (Byzantine), Prayer of Thanksgiving (Armenian), Prayer of the Shrine and the Lakhu Mara (Chaldean), Prayer of Incense and Prayer to Glorify Mary the Mother of God (Coptic), Prayer for the Remission of Sins and Prayer to Follow Christ (Ethiopian), Prayer for the Church, and Prayer of Leave-taking from the Altar (Maronite), and Intercessions for the Faithful Departed (Syrian).
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Jack007
Guest
I belong to the syromalabar church, second largest eastern church, evangelised by st thomas the apostle, having no shortage of priests(my church has three, there are churches every few kilometres, we send priests to foreign nations).
We believe in indulgences, with beliefs similar to latin rite but differ on purgatory. We call it bes purkana, house of salvation in syriac.
According to wikipedia,
The prayers specifically mentioned in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum are not of the Latin Rite tradition alone, but also from the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Akathistos, Paraklesis, Evening Prayer, and Prayer for the Faithful Departed (Byzantine), Prayer of Thanksgiving (Armenian), Prayer of the Shrine and the Lakhu Mara (Chaldean), Prayer of Incense and Prayer to Glorify Mary the Mother of God (Coptic), Prayer for the Remission of Sins and Prayer to Follow Christ (Ethiopian), Prayer for the Church, and Prayer of Leave-taking from the Altar (Maronite), and Intercessions for the Faithful Departed (Syrian).
Miserissima,
Please note that 6 paters and aves has been waived to one, though the faithfull may pray more.
We believe in indulgences, with beliefs similar to latin rite but differ on purgatory. We call it bes purkana, house of salvation in syriac.
According to wikipedia,
The prayers specifically mentioned in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum are not of the Latin Rite tradition alone, but also from the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Akathistos, Paraklesis, Evening Prayer, and Prayer for the Faithful Departed (Byzantine), Prayer of Thanksgiving (Armenian), Prayer of the Shrine and the Lakhu Mara (Chaldean), Prayer of Incense and Prayer to Glorify Mary the Mother of God (Coptic), Prayer for the Remission of Sins and Prayer to Follow Christ (Ethiopian), Prayer for the Church, and Prayer of Leave-taking from the Altar (Maronite), and Intercessions for the Faithful Departed (Syrian).
Miserissima,
Please note that 6 paters and aves has been waived to one, though the faithfull may pray more.
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Miserissima
Guest
Thank you!
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RaphaelJ
Guest
I know that the Easterners believe in the doctrine of theosis or becoming more like God. The doctrine of purgatory is often interpreted in the East as theosis continuing after death. Is it possible to say that indulgences in the West can be described as one of the means to theosis in the East? Many of the acts of indulgences include prayers, almsgiving, etc. Do the Easterners disagree?
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