Do Evangelicals Believe in Any Sacraments?

[Per_Crucem]

Regarding baptism, we echo Scripture: “Baptism now saves you” (1 Peter 3:21).

Regarding the Lord’s Supper, essentially the same thing: forgiveness of sins is received through the Lord’s Supper.

In both cases, it’s through faith alone.

Ditto, and that is where evangelicals (inadvertantly, I am sure) accuse Scripture of teaching falsehood. If baptism doesn’t save, then nothing in Scripture can be counted as true.

 

[Koineman]

Originally Posted by Koineman
Regarding baptism, we echo Scripture: “Baptism now saves you” (1 Peter 3:21).

It’s through faith alone because the sacraments are God’s work, not our work. Does that help?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Must be my Protestant past lol

Then take it up with St. Peter, who wrote that Baptism now saves you…or St. Paul, who calls Baptism the circumcision made without hands that unites us to Christ, or that which causes us to be raised unto new life.

I’ll get back to you on that

From the Catholic position it would be a spiritual communion only as we do not believe that they have been validly ordained and therefore have no power to confect the Eucharist. They do, however, believe they are receiving the body and blood of the Lord.

This is in contrast to those Protestants that deny the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist right out of the shoot.

It really doesn’t matter what they believe if it is only spiritual in the eyes on the CC. Episcopalian priest believe they are equal with Catholic priest. See what I mean?

Yes I only believe spiritual. The SBC congregation I grew up in believed that the Spirit lives in you and you can nothing from eating but merely being obedient.

 

[dronald]

Must be my Protestant past lol

Then take it up with St. Peter, who wrote that Baptism now saves you…or St. Paul, who calls Baptism the circumcision made without hands that unites us to Christ, or that which causes us to be raised unto new life.

Peter didn’t say, “Baptism now saves you.”

He said, “Baptism now saves you, and here’s how and how not.”

I don’t believe infants can fit the requirement in Peter’s definition. But anywho.

 

[dronald]

Okay, let’s say Gnostic tendencies. However you want to describe it, the rejection of sacraments on the basis that God does not work through matter is a Gnostic tendency, since it implies that matter is somehow bad enough that God would not work through it.

Interestingly enough I do believe God works through our communion and thanksgiving. Ironically you don’t believe our God works through our communion (The Church I attend for clarification).

A reason for what? I don’t get you. At any rate, my statement is based on years and years in evangelicalism and talking with various evangelicals. There is enormous inconsistency in their views, such as in the example I gave above about God working through the Bible and preachers. They vehemently reject what they themselves hold to. It’s almost as if they don’t understand what they’re rejecting or they don’t see their own acceptance of the very things they reject.

Well I can’t argue with your experience.

I find the stories I hear from Catholics (often from the South) are quite different than the Evangelicals in Canada.

It’s about being faithful to Scripture. The Real Presence is in accordance with what Jesus Himself taught.

I guess I don’t understand the purpose as I said. I know that as Christians we gather, break bread, and remember His Sacrifice. I don’t know how to define His Words, but I question why it matters.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Peter didn’t say, “Baptism now saves you.”

He said, “Baptism now saves you, and here’s how and how not.”

I don’t believe infants can fit the requirement in Peter’s definition. But anywho.

Yes, and in no case does any communion say that the water cleansing dirt from your body saves you. However, regardless of the water cleaning you not saving you, baptism still saves you.

 

[Jon_S_1]

As a Lutheran, do you believe the Sacraments save you?

As a catholic I will say Jesus saves you and faith in him. The sacraments are vehicles of Gods grace, given to us to grow us in holiness and grow and demonstrate our faith.

 

[dronald]

Yes, and in no case does any communion say that the water cleansing dirt from your body saves you. However, regardless of the water cleaning you not saving you, baptism still saves you.

So now you’ve commented on the how not; why not comment on the ‘how’?

 

[aidanbradypop]

As a catholic I will say Jesus saves you and faith in him. The sacraments are vehicles of Gods grace, given to us to grow us in holiness and grow and demonstrate our faith.

I know the Catholic view. Thanks though

 

[Per_Crucem]

So now you’ve commented on the how not; why not comment on the ‘how’?

Through the resurrection of Christ. Are there any churches that teach that the saving nature of the sacrament has nothing to do with the resurrection?

 

[Koineman]

Interestingly enough I do believe God works through our communion and thanksgiving. Ironically you don’t believe our God works through our communion (The Church I attend for clarification).

I don’t know about your church or what you believe. I’m only sharing what I’ve learned that most evangelical churches believe.

Well I can’t argue with your experience.

You don’t have to. If you want some more objective proof, go to various evangelical churches’ websites and check out their doctrinal statements on baptism and the Lord’s Supper.

I guess I don’t understand the purpose as I said. I know that as Christians we gather, break bread, and remember His Sacrifice. I don’t know how to define His Words, but I question why it matters.

Because it’s what Jesus Christ said. That should be answer enough.

 

[SteveVH]

It really doesn’t matter what they believe if it is only spiritual in the eyes on the CC. Episcopalian priest believe they are equal with Catholic priest. See what I mean?

I am only speaking of how various denominations view the Eucharist. Some believe in the true presence of Christ (body & blood) in the Eucharist even though they have no authority to consecrate. Others don’t worry about the authority to consecrate because they believe it is only symbolic anyway. In both case, they only have a symbol.

Yes I only believe spiritual. The SBC congregation I grew up in believed that the Spirit lives in you and you can nothing from eating but merely being obedient.

Obedient? When one asks our obedience, it normally is because what we are asked to do has some degree of importance. Jesus didn’t tell us to eat his flesh and drink his blood just for the heck of it. He has a reason he wants us to do this. To say we only do it out of obedience, as if he told us to spin around three times and throw salt over our shoulder (so we do it) is missing the entire reason Jesus gave us this gift. I mean really, think about it. Why should we eat bread and drink wine so that we can just remember him? Wouldn’t it be better to get together and pray and maybe do a little Bible study focusing on his sacrifice to us. If it was just to remember, why would he ask us to do this strange thing? Simple obedience misses the mark by a mile, IMO. Jesus said that if we did it we would have life within us and if we do not we would not have life within us.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I am only speaking of how various denominations view the Eucharist. Some believe in the true presence of Christ (body & blood) in the Eucharist even though they have no authority to consecrate. Others don’t worry about the authority to consecrate because they believe it is only symbolic anyway. In both case, they only have a symbol.

Gottcha

Obedient? When one asks our obedience, it normally is because what we are asked to do has some degree of importance. Jesus didn’t tell us to eat his flesh and drink his blood just for the heck of it. He has a reason he wants us to do this. To say we only do it out of obedience, as if he told us to spin around three times and throw salt over our shoulder (so we do it) is missing the entire reason Jesus gave us this gift. I mean really, think about it. Why should we eat bread and drink wine so that we can just remember him? Wouldn’t it be better to get together and pray and maybe do a little Bible study focusing on his sacrifice to us. If it was just to remember, why would he ask us to do this strange thing? Simple obedience misses the mark by a mile, IMO. Jesus said that if we did it we would have life within us and if we do not we would not have life within us.

I believe it to be more than obedient. It is an Ordinance after all. I do not see the Lord’s Supper in the view that Catholics do, but see far more greater than that SBC pastor’s view.

 

[SteveVH]

Gottcha

I believe it to be more than obedient. It is an Ordinance after all. I do not see the Lord’s Supper in the view that Catholics do, but see far more greater than that SBC pastor’s view.

I don’t know. I have a real problem with the replacing the term “sacrament” with the term “ordinance”. An ordinance can be a command, but the entire idea of “gift” and “grace” is missing. It becomes more "we do this because God commanded us to do this (without possibly any understanding of why) instead of "God does this so that we may have eternal life.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I don’t know. I have a real problem with the replacing the term “sacrament” with the term “ordinance”. An ordinance can be a command, but the entire idea of “gift” and “grace” is missing. It becomes more "we do this because God commanded us to do this (without possibly any understanding of why) instead of "God does this so that we may have eternal life.

I understand you views and respect them.

 

[SteveVH]

I understand you views and respect them.

Thanks.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Thanks.

You’re welcome friend. Sometimes it is hard for Catholic or Non to understand why someone believes a certain way. I do not have to agree to understand and when I understand, I believe I should remain respectful even when I disagree.

 

[SteveVH]

You’re welcome friend. Sometimes it is hard for Catholic or Non to understand why someone believes a certain way. I do not have to agree to understand and when I understand, I believe I should remain respectful even when I disagree.

You always have been and it is much appreciated.

 

[Vanez]

Does anyone know about Salvation Army (Leger des Heils)? Is it true that they (still) rejected the sacrament of baptism and Holy Communion?

 

[benhur]

I don’t know. I have a real problem with the replacing the term “sacrament” with the term “ordinance”. An ordinance can be a command, but the entire idea of “gift” and “grace” is missing. It becomes more "we do this because God commanded us to do this (without possibly any understanding of why) instead of "God does this so that we may have eternal life.

Hi Steve, then why do folks have so many "commands’’ on sacramental graces ?

Doing something because we have been graced is different than doing something to be graced. One presupposes a “gift” or "grace’’ more than the other. We primarily give thanks/eucharist because we have been gifted and graced, and any further gracing is a by product (He inhabits our praises).

So while you see ordinance as lacking grace , others see sacrament “so that we may have eternal life” as being contrary to pre sacramental grace, and grace itself.