Do excommunicated people automatically go to hell?

[Buck_Crosswhite]

you got it right in that regard.

I’d hate to say to my nephew ,who was raised Catholic and an altar boy, who changed to Methodist for his wife, that his whole family is lost"

how rediculous.

I suggest you pray for them to come back into the Church before it’s too late. EENS.

 

[Luvtosew]

Even Pope John Paul said one not need be Catholic or even Christian.

which shocked me he said Christian, as I believe one needs to believe in Christ.

 

[thistle]

Even Pope John Paul said one not need be Catholic or even Christian.

which shocked me he said Christian, as I believe one needs to believe in Christ.

Read my post #60.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Read my post #60.

No you are missing the point entirely, when we believe our church fathers to be in error we must politely correct them.
Vatican 2 infallibly teaches that if one where to disagree with church teaching on the basis of his or her conscience than they do not have to believe it in there heart.
You seem to mistake infallibility for impeccability.
The church does not make mistakes no, but the people in the church do.
And than we must politely correct them so it can be changed.
I am not denying teaching, nor am i accusing the clergy of malicious intent.
I am only saying that i believe that they have made a honest mistake.
Like when they said that the sun revolved around the earth.
Disagreeing is not denying.
Let me give you an example:
I do not agree with some things in the novus ordo, but that does not mean i dislike Paul VI, in fact i think he was a great kindhearted man.
I am not maliciously denying the article i am only saying that where it up to me i would have done things differently.
newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

And if you want to avoid socializing with sinners than i suggest you go live on the moon.
No disrespect intended i am merely reminding you that as catholics we can not judge each other for our sins like fundamentalist Pentecostals do.
Christ will judge the living and the dead (solely Christ) and no mortal should ever even consider doing so for that would like saying that thou art Christ.
I am not saying you are, but i would at least be very carefully in accusing other people of sin, unless you believe yourself to be free from sin.

Matthew 7
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Even in medieval times people would discuss catholic teaching all the time, most of the time at the church its entrance.
Monks would stand in the church vestibule and explain catholic dogma, or explain there own points of view based on there conscience.
Only those who denied the teachings where branded heretics.
Monk:“I think the clergy are mistaken in there current teachings Because, and than her would provide a reason”
Heretic: “I deny and reject the church its teaching and i proclaim that they are liars and deceivers.”

 

[thistle]

No you are missing the point entirely, when we believe our church fathers to be in error we must politely correct them.
Vatican 2 infallibly teaches that if one where to disagree with church teaching on the basis of his or her conscience than they do not have to believe it in there heart.
You seem to mistake infallibility for impeccability.
The church does not make mistakes no, but the people in the church do.
And than we must politely correct them so it can be changed.
I am not denying teaching, nor am i accusing the clergy of malicious intent.
I am only saying that i believe that they have made a honest mistake.
Like when they said that the sun revolved around the earth.
Disagreeing is not denying.
Let me give you an example:
I do not agree with some things in the novus ordo, but that does not mean i dislike Paul VI, in fact i think he was a great kindhearted man.
I am not maliciously denying the article i am only saying that where it up to me i would have done things differently.
newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

And if you want to avoid socializing with sinners than i suggest you go live on the moon.
No disrespect intended i am merely reminding you that as catholics we can not judge each other for our sins like fundamentalist Pentecostals do.
Christ will judge the living and the dead (solely Christ) and no mortal should ever even consider doing so for that would like saying that thou art Christ.
I am not saying you are, but i would at least be very carefully in accusing other people of sin, unless you believe yourself to be free from sin.

Matthew 7
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

We are not talking about the Church Fathers.
We are talking about the Church doctrines. Church teaching trumps any opinion of a Church Father that is different from the Church teaching.
The Church cannot be in error in matters of faith and morals.
It is an infallible teaching of the Church that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
Do you believe and accept the Church teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Also what sort of stupid remark is this you made:** And if you want to avoid socializing with sinners than i suggest you go live on the moon.**

Where did I say I wanted to avoid socializing with sinners. I said nothing of the kind. Be careful before making silly unfounded accusations or I will report you to the moderators.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

To Thistle.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=610928
Is this not the same than?
Hugh of Lincoln could be an example for changing teachings…
And even if it does not just because something has never happened doers it mean it will never happen.
I am not denying nor refuting catholic teaching, i am only saying that i personally disagree with it.
Heresy is maliciously denying catholic teaching.

 

[thistle]

To Thistle.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=610928
Is this not the same than?
Hugh of Lincoln could be an example for changing teachings…
And even if it does not just because something has never happened doers it mean it will never happen.
I am not denying nor refuting catholic teaching, i am only saying that i personally disagree with it.
Heresy is maliciously denying catholic teaching.

If you believe an infallible teaching of the Church (which you must) you cannot disagree with it. Disagreeing means refusing to agree or accept. You are trying word games but disagreeing with an infallible teaching is the same as not believing it.

By the way Church doctrine NEVER changes. It may be developed to make it clearer but it cannot change. The truth is the truth.
Disciplines on the other hand can change.

 

[Luvtosew]

I suggest you pray for them to come back into the Church before it’s too late. EENS.

Oh I pray for them and I’m sure they pray for me. Also I don’ t believe in EENS, which came about in the medevil times, and I don’t believe Jesus said this, but some Pope in the early Church.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

If you believe an infallible teaching of the Church (which you must) you cannot disagree with it. Disagreeing means refusing to agree or accept. You are trying word games but disagreeing with an infallible teaching is the same as not believing it.

By the way Church doctrine NEVER changes. It may be developed to make it clearer but it cannot change. The truth is the truth.
Disciplines on the other hand can change.

I am just telling you what i know, and if you do not want to believe than that is fine by me.

 

[thistle]

I am just telling you what i know, and if you do not want to believe than that is fine by me.

That’s your problem. You do not know.
You cannot believe a Church teaching and disagree with it. The two are contradictory.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

That’s your problem. You do not know.
You cannot believe a Church teaching and disagree with it. The two are contradictory.

Just for the record, i do, i read it in a book about the Catholic Church.
You say Church doctrine NEVER changes, well you are wrong, in fact it does.
Such as the case of usury which was officially condemned and forbidden in the Third Lateran Council in 1179 AD, and later removed by Pope Benedict XIV in 1745 AD.
(Before 1179 AD Catholics where not allowed to lend out money at interest)

The founder of holy mother church might be irrefutable, the human interpretation of its clergy is still anything but, and this is the reason why in the past teachings where revised by them where it was necessary.
The revision of doctrine is after all no shame, quite the contrary actually.
Because every time the children of the holy mother church recognize that the teachings should be revised they get a step closer to the truth, their creator, and the redemption of all benevolent people on God’s good earth.