Do Faeries exist?

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seeker777 said:
If reason is used to determine if God is real, then I’m afraid that reason would have determined long ago that there is no subjective or testable evidence that leads to any proof that a God exists, let alone a Hindu God or a Christian God.

Reason is the enemy of faith.

Why ought anyone take your belief in a supernatural sky God seriously, if you cannot produce any tangible proof that your God exists?
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we have medical miracles. i know someone who came down with spinal menegitis. the doctors were preparing the family that their loved one would die. the family prayed and prayed to God. and the loved one was miraculously cured. when the wife thanked the doctor, he would accept no credit for the cure, he called it a miracle.

we have a woman on this forum who recently joined. she didn’t know why she joined, but she argued for abortion with all of the standard pro-abortion rhetoric. then “weird” things began to happen in her life that she shared with us. we all could tell that God was communicating with her, but she wasn’t ready to acknowledge that at first. but God kept interacting with her, and finally she saw God for what he is, and she had to change her life.

we know God exists because we can see these unexplanable events and attribute them to him.
 
Abbadon said:
I was replying to many things and I realize there is no point.

Maybe I was to hostile in the way I put it.

What I’'m trying to do is perhaps get the people who believe in a particular god, realize that they have no more real good reason for believing than do the muslims or the mormons, the aboriginies or the celts that once believed in faeries.

I just want people to understand that. These belief systems are all equal. So what makes one more correct than the other?
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Well now! Here’s a question. We finally come to it, the meat of the matter as it were.

Hostility is irrelevant; even in the most sarcastic or angriest objections, there are undercurrents of search that are valid and need to be addressed.

And point conceded; you are right. We Catholics have no better reason than the pagans to believe what we do. Not in the way you understand reason anyway.

There will never be any introcontrovertible empirical proof, there will never be a final, definitive, authoritative study by the most prestigious of scientists, there will never be an invincible, ironclad rational argument that is equally convincing to everyone who can understand it and think for themselves. Otherwise, everyone would be Catholic.

But it cannot be denied that there are Catholics. You are wondering why. There are historical explanations, there are psychological explanations, there are traditional explanations. They are not sufficient to you. You are here to see what the real reason it is that we who profess the faith believe what we do. For that is why you are here among us, asking questions, reading our responses, is it not?

Because perhaps you do acknowledge that we DO have a reason to believe what we believe, otherwise, we would see the light of your arguments (or someone else’s), and all concede that all belief systems are ok, or that having no belief system is ok.

And we DO have our reasons; it’s just that, to you, none of them constitute ‘good’ reasons.

In this is the choice; it is a value judgement. Just as we will never convince you with words alone to put value in our reasons if you don’t see any value in them, you will never convince us to abandon the infinite value we have found in the reasons for our own beliefs.

Now the questions you have to ask yourself is: what does this mean for you? What are you going to do about it?

In the end, all we are doing is meaningless rhethorical gymnastics unless you find some way to use what you learn here in your own growth. And in that matter, only you can decide.
 
Abbadon said:
I just want people to understand that. These belief systems are all equal. So what makes one more correct than the other?
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To address this specific point, again, it is not a matter of correctness. It is a matter of what you can bear to live your life to the strictest and final sense of the system.

Let us begin with something we can all agree upon; if one adopts a faith system (or non-faith system), one must make it one’s own personal reason for living, then one must live it out as best one can, yes? Science, Wicca, Christianity, Islam, it doesn’t matter-- whichever one a person is an adherent to, this person must accept it ALL as the truth.

Otherwise, there is no truth for this person. One will adopt a truth system only for as long as it is comfortable, and that is animal thinking. There is nothing beyond physical comfort; animals don’t do science any more than they do religion.

So once a person moves past animal thinking and accepts that there is more to life than eating, sleeping, excreting, and reproducing, what then? What to choose? Science makes the most sense-- it gives us technology, which makes it easier for us to eat, sleep, excrete, and…

I apologize. That was a cheap shot, but I couldn’t resist.

My point is that not all these belief systems are equal. It’s not called Radical Islam for no reason-- while some find the strictest fulfilment of Islam in peace, others yet interpret living it out in great violence and hate.

Celtic, Greek and Nordic belief systems are on the ropes, have been for a great while; with the advent of widespread critical thinking and skepticism, the mythological structure of their faith just does not hold up to scrutiny. Even if there were beings as described, they are about as fallible and limited as human creatures, and hardly worthy of human worship.

You have encountered some of the reasons we adhere to Catholicism. My overriding reason-- as I believe is the overriding reason for many-- is the uniqueness of the Catholic faith in its call for its adherents to love all man.

Yes, love. I am a cradle Catholic, but I once thought that all belief systems were good and equal as long as the people in it were ‘good’ men, especially in my years in college studying Philosophy. I thought, as long as love is there, everything will be alright.

And in many ways, this is still true. Great love and compassion can be found the world over, Catholicism aside.

And yet something was missing; if all men desire love, and all men agree that love is great, and all belief systems with love are equal… WHY DOES THE WORLD STILL SUCK SO MUCH?

Seriously.

Free love and bleated platitudes of peace are for hippies and softies. They don’t mean it. They have a vague understanding of what they want, but not the conviction and resolution to live it.

Catholicism offers me-- offers us-- a way to live love to its fullest. What other religion would have its adherents love so much that they go to DEATH while LOVING THE ONE THAT PUTS THEM TO DEATH? What other religion has survived for TWO THOUSAND YEARS despite such a seemingly self-destructive principle?

The Catholic Church offers the most complete theological basis for understanding the universe and our place for it than there ever was or ever will be. It speaks to the everyday man, and constantly offers guidance for the application of faith down to the tiniest minutiae of detail in life.

By any standard of ‘equality’, there is not one to equal, or even rival the Catholic Church. Not a one.

That is why I am in it. That is why I stayed in it.

That is why I live. That is why I love.

My question for you is: what are you doing way over there?
 
seeker777 said:
I disagree. Reason must be suspended in order to believe as truth, that which cannot be proven.

What did Martin Luther have to say about reason?

“Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and … know nothing but the word of God.”
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And Luther was well outside the mainstream of the Christian tradition in saying this. John Wesley, the spiritual father of the Christian tradition in which I was raised, was horrified by this aspect of Luther’s teaching.

We believe in things that cannot be conclusively proven. But we do not believe in things that contradict reason.
Morality certainly exists outside of the Bible.
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No dispute there. Why would you expect a Christian to say otherwise? As so often in these debates, you ignore the mainstream of traditional Christianity in your definition of “Christian.” It’s ironic (and fortunate for you, though unfortunate for your argument) that you do this on a Catholic board, where people can actually correct you. Perhaps you can find fundamentalists who really think there is “no morality outside the Bible.” Go talk to them if you want to.

Note: I recognize that you are responding to a post that said that there is no morality without God. The fact that you transmogrified this statement into “there is no morality outside the Bible” demonstrates, yet again, how little effort you are putting into understanding Christian arguments accurately. The two statements are very different.
If reason is used to determine if God is real, then I’m afraid that reason would have determined long ago that there is no subjective or testable evidence that leads to any proof that a God exists, let alone a Hindu God or a Christian God.
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Well, one can have many profitable arguments about this, and lots of people have had such arguments for a long time. There is certainly no proof that God exists that is so conclusive that it convinces all rational people. But there are sound arguments that point toward the existence of God, and some very smart people have held that the existence of God can in fact be proven (obviously the fact that not everyone sees the force of the proof doesn’t necessarily invalidate the proof).

**
Reason is the enemy of faith.
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**

So you say. Naturally Christians disagree (traditional, orthodox Christians anyway), and your bare assertion is unlikely to carry much weight with us.
Why ought anyone take your belief in a supernatural sky God seriously, if you cannot produce any tangible proof that your God exists?
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Well, we don’t believe in a sky God. We can discuss why we believe in God once you have something remotely approaching an accurate understanding of what we mean when we use the word “God.”

Edwin
 
chewchoo said:
we have medical miracles.

we know God exists because we can see these unexplanable events and attribute them to him.
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Yes, and 30,000 children died from starvation that same day. Where was their miraculous salvation from death?

Unexplanable events or events we do not presently understand do not = miracle.

If someone who lost a leg were to grow back a completely normal, healthy and functioning limb, then I would call that a miracle.

That doesn’t happen, hasn’t happen and will never happen, because medical miracles are not the result of divine intervention.

If they were the result of divine intervention, at least one person would have grown back a complete limb by now.
 
seeker777 said:
Yes, and 30,000 children died from starvation that same day. Where was their miraculous salvation from death?

Unexplanable events or events we do not presently understand do not = miracle.

If someone who lost a leg were to grow back a completely normal, healthy and functioning limb, then I would call that a miracle.

That doesn’t happen, hasn’t happen and will never happen, because medical miracles are not the result of divine intervention.

If they were the result of divine intervention, at least one person would have grown back a complete limb by now.
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and what have you done to help eliminate starvation and poverty in the world?

so, okay, you don’t have faith in God and miracles, but you should be able to send a check to feed the children. 🤷
 
seeker777 said:
If someone who lost a leg were to grow back a completely normal, healthy and functioning limb, then I would call that a miracle.

That doesn’t happen, hasn’t happen and will never happen, because medical miracles are not the result of divine intervention.

If they were the result of divine intervention, at least one person would have grown back a complete limb by now.
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freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1947652/posts

In Bulacan, Monteclaro narrates, there was this young boy who was born with practically no bones. “He was soft – like jellyfish. I was holding him in my arms when Father Suarez prayed over him. I myself felt the bones grow inside the boy’s body and suddenly there he was --walking.”
 
chewchoo said:
but you should be able to send a check to feed the children. 🤷
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I do.

I’ll present Christopher Hitchen’s challenge to those of faith and as of yet, no one has presented a response;

Name on thing that a religious person has done or does, that a non-believer couldn’t or doesn’t also do.
 
seeker777 said:
I do.

I’ll present Christopher Hitchen’s challenge to those of faith and as of yet, no one has presented a response;

Name on thing that a religious person has done or does, that a non-believer couldn’t or doesn’t also do.
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:confused:
 
reggieM said:
I myself felt the bones grow inside the boy’s body and suddenly there he was --walking.”
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Rubbish.

Then you are suggesting that God allowed the boy to be born broken, so that he could show everyone the awesome power at his beck and call.

Why wouldn’t God have done the right thing and allowed the boy to have been born healthy, thereby saving everyone the emotional distress. What, so everyone could be impressed by his miracle? ( If I believed, that is what I would want to know)
 
Suarez was also been banned from healing in a Toronto diocese for “a breach of Article 4, No. 3, of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith disciplinary norms contained in the Instruction on Prayers for Healing.” Malolos Bishop Jose Oliveros, D.D., per CBCP web site said he learned of the ban from Archbishop Thomas Collins at the 49th International Eucharistic Congress in Quebec City.

Lingayen-Dagupan Archbishop Oscar V. Cruz earlier banned Suarez. In an essay, also, Fr. Virgilio Ojoy, OP, a University of Santo Tomas Ecclesiastical Faculties professor, said Suarez’s work had been “sensationalized.
 
seeker777 said:
Rubbish.

Then you are suggesting that God allowed the boy to be born broken, so that he could show everyone the awesome power at his beck and call.

Why wouldn’t God have done the right thing and allowed the boy to have been born healthy, thereby saving everyone the emotional distress. What, so everyone could be impressed by his miracle? ( If I believed, that is what I would want to know)
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you want everything to be perfect and for God to show his face.

God’s ways are not man’s ways.
 
seeker777 said:
Suarez was also been banned from healing in a Toronto diocese for “a breach of Article 4, No. 3, of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith disciplinary norms contained in the Instruction on Prayers for Healing.” Malolos Bishop Jose Oliveros, D.D., per CBCP web site said he learned of the ban from Archbishop Thomas Collins at the 49th International Eucharistic Congress in Quebec City.

Lingayen-Dagupan Archbishop Oscar V. Cruz earlier banned Suarez. In an essay, also, Fr. Virgilio Ojoy, OP, a University of Santo Tomas Ecclesiastical Faculties professor, said Suarez’s work had been “sensationalized.
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source?
 
Abbadon said:
Seriously what is the difference bettween this question and the god question?

There is a ton of Lore in ancient cultures about faeries. Just because no one has seen a faerie doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, maybe there invisible and maybe they have powers far beyond what we can imagine. Maybe there immortal and have always existed. And maybe in their hordes they created our universe.

But why do we prescribe a requirement of evidence for faeries but not for god? Why don’t you believe in faeries?
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Where’s the Church of Fairies?

How does that compare with the Church (Catholic)?

I do believe in fairies. They are little masks which demons use to lead men around in various not-good ways.

Occasionally these “fairy masks” get used by angels to do good things, but that is very rare.

There is plenty of evidence for a belief in fairies. But fairies REALLY don’t like it when you utterly sap their “power” by calling them what they are, and tend to buzz away when you can so do, giving you no more trouble!
 
seeker777 said:
I do.

I’ll present Christopher Hitchen’s challenge to those of faith and as of yet, no one has presented a response;
**
Name on[e] thing that a religious person has done or does, that a non-believer couldn’t or doesn’t also do.**
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Receive divine revelation which helps them become more human.

Your response?
 
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