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CatsAndDogs
Guest
Nah, Horatio was right! There are only God, angels/demons, and humans.
Those angels/demons can be VERY VERSATILE, though!
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Those angels/demons can be VERY VERSATILE, though!
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MindOverMatter
Guest
Human beings sure have the ability to invent subjective fantasies and values. But I thought that I made it clear that I was talking about “Objective” reality as in “truth”, as opposed to “subjective” imaginings. Not to mention that most of the values that we believe to be true, are not only rooted in religious traditions of the past, but are as such that they imply the existence of a “Universal Transcendent Moral-Reality”. But I doubt very much that you will understand such a concept, except after the burden of my teaching you very basic skills in logic. Such a feat cannot be achieved on this thread.
I think Contarini is right, that you have no basic understanding of what it means to reason let alone what we mean by a “God”. You certainly fail to grasp the difference between a “Transcendent Universal Good/Value” and mere opinions about how we want to be treated.
God, Meaning & Nihilism.
You say that we can have a society without God. But If concepts about human value helps our society to survive without invoking God as the source and foundation of those values, it is only because we believe those values to have the authority of "truth” as as much as we find value-systems to be a good survival aid. The problem, which you unfortunately fail to grasp, is that such values are not “true”, as in they do not exist objectively outside the existence of God and the fantasy of our minds and imagination; because nothing, under naturalism, can possibly exists out side of cause and effect, as in “physical-reality”. There can be no real meaning in it other then what we invent. So far as social language is concerned we are mostly laboring under a lie.
This is a fundamental flaw with atheists who use arguments which appeal to rationality and scientific empiricism. The flaw is in their reasons for disbelieving. The main reason why people are saying they don’t believe in God, is because they think that belief in God is an irrational “fantasy” as much as believing in, say, the tooth fairy. The problem with that line of thought is, so is all our values and most of our social-meanings. For example, in your mind, you think that your sons and daughters are your children and that you “ought” to love them, and that people “ought” to love their children. However, in Objective reality, without God, a child isn’t a Child; it is just a biological parasite that lives off your existence, and retains that position by fooling your nervous system into applying meaning and value to its existence. So convincing is this illusion, that you would think of “it”–the organism that is–as a child with intrinsic values. The brain then releases chemicals, telling you to love “it”; giving you a subjective moral sense of obligation. All of this happens by cause and effect and chance combined with determining environments; within a system called “Evolution”. It is this ongoing drama/fantasy which provides a vital breeding ground for nothing more then the replication of “Genes”. Hence the human fantasy that we call life, since nothing transcends the reality of cause and effect. In the real world, so far as naturalism is concerned, it gets no deeper then that.
We cannot honestly reject God under the pain of fantasy making, but then imploy fantasies just because they make us feel comfortable in a heartless purposeless world. That is quite simply hypocracy.
If we reject God, because we think he’s a fantasy, then we must, if we believe are selves to be honest rational creatures, reject all concepts of “Values” and “Humanity”, because they transcend physical truths, and therefore are just as much a fantasies as our belief in God. Unfortunately, this leads not to a fruitful future, but to absolute Nihilism.
Nobody in their right minds are going to accept Nihilism; and there is no need to. People who accept Atheism, and yet behave as if there were such things as “Objective” Values and Moral-Law, are not completely rational people. Either they’ve been deceived and have not truly thought through their position, or they have run into the darkness of denial and naturalism in the hope that it will provide them a safe haven from the obligation of prayer. But any reasonable person will realize that there is only one saving grace left for our society, and that is to accept our intuitive concept of Human Value and Moral law in so far as it points to the existence of a Transcendent, All-Powerful, Loving God. This is what I meant by the necessity of God, in so far as God is the safeguard of Objective Moral Values and Meaning.
Hence the philosophical importance of God and faith, and the Infinite-Abyss that lies in between God and fairies.
Cased closed.
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Abbadon
Guest
Indoctrination from birth sure does work.
There are to many responses and to many tangents…
I’m out…
There are to many responses and to many tangents…
I’m out…
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Mike_Dye
Guest
Wait a minute. I have seen faries and you can too. Just Google Folsom Street Fair. You will see them in abundance:thumbsup:
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Mike_Dye
Guest
Whoops…different faeries…Sorry
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Fox
Guest
If the Fey do exist along with aliens or anything else etc. it is all part of God’s plan that has not been revealed to me, and if God wants to enlighten me about the Fey or other creatures then I’m all for it, if He doesn’t I’m not going to lose sleep over it.
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Wirraway
Guest
anyone interested in a trip to Fey should read Neil Gaimon’s fascinating travelogue, Neverwhere
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Aleii
Guest
Could you elaborate on this? Maybe its just semantics that are getting in the way. You say that God gives us free will and does not determine things. But then it seems that you say that God does not know what one(Satan) will choose. However, not knowing the outcomes seems to go against what omniscience is.
For example, in John 6:70, John 13, and Matthew 26:25 it is shown to be foreknowledge that Judas will betray Jesus. John 13:38 shows that it is foreknowledge that Peter will deny Jesus 3 times.
Psalm 147:5 also states “Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.” It seems you are limiting God, in seeming opposition to scripture, when you state that God does not have foreknowledge about what one will decide to do.
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Abbadon
Guest
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
God’s “time” (His eternity, as opposed to the angelic “eternity” and the human “eternity”, which are all different though “overlapping”) is such that it’s not a contradiction that God allows for free will while knowing everything that eventually does actually happen.
As “soon” as something does happen via the free will of a person it is known by God in ALL of His eternity, but it didn’t actually happen until it DID actually happen!
He DOES have foreknowledge of what will happen but does not determine what will happen by having that foreknowledge.
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
No.
It is not a function of omnipotence to make the real unreal. For God to change His mind is for God to un-create, which God won’t do, because truth cannot be made untrue if it is truth.
A basic premise of Christianity is that reality is reality. What has happened has actually happened.
God does not make things un-happen.
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
No.
It is not a function of omnipotence to make the real unreal. For God to change His mind is for God to un-create, which God won’t do, because truth cannot be made untrue if it is truth.
A basic premise of Christianity is that reality is reality. What has happened has actually happened.
God does not make things un-happen. No promise is unpromised.
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Abbadon
Guest
Why can’t he? It would be like an omnipotent eraserNo.
It is not a function of omnipotence to make the real unreal. For God to change His mind is for God to un-create, which God won’t do, because truth cannot be made untrue if it is truth.
A basic premise of Christianity is that reality is reality. What has happened has actually happened.
God does not make things un-happen.
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Methodi
Guest
when God made the world, he was unhappy with it after awhile & sent the great flood , wouldnt that be a change of mind
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Methodi
Guest
The fairies your talking about are sometimes fun to watch, they are entertaining & most of them are gifted. They are our greatest designers & artists etc. God Made them for a reason unknown to us. They are Gods people whether we like it or notWhoops…different faeries…Sorry
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crowonsnow
Guest
The religious consensus seems to be that faeries do indeed exist or are at least highly possible, owing to a god’s powers.
That’s pretty interesting, but not unexpected.
That’s pretty interesting, but not unexpected.
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
God writes in ink (on paper that shreds if erasure is attempted!).
Truth can not be made untrue. What is real is true.
“Omnipotence” doesn’t mean “ability to do anything”, but rather “ALL POWERFUL within the constraints of reality”.
God is the (sole) constraint of reality, and He can’t negate Himself, which He would be doing by making happenings (reality) un-happen.
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
That was not a change of mind. That was “cleansing the field”.
It was all in the plan. There was no “going back” involved.
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CatsAndDogs
Guest
No. Fairies are demons. Period.
Though, sometimes, they are “hijacked” for short periods of (human) time by angels. But that is a rare occurrence.
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Methodi
Guest
No he repented that he even made the world. Who knows the real stories, the Bible was passed down by word of mouth until they started recording it & some of it may be written down wrong,
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