Do futurist end times interpretations lead to Jesus being a false prophet?

[onemangang]

Matthew 24: 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, **this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. **

Mark 13:30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.

Luke 21:32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place.

If we are to take Jesus at his word literally, and not allegorize, or spiritualize what He said, how can a futurist interpret this passage, without making Jesus out to be a false prophet?

I have heard some futurist change the meaning of ***this generation *** to mean something other than what was plainly said.

Since Jesus had a first century audience, wouldn’t His audience have to been mislead by Jesus, if he did mean ***this generation *** differently, than what was plainly stated!

C.S Lewis understood language very well, and look what this passage prompted him to say on Matthew 24

C.S. Lewis
The apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. "**Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. This is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible." **(Essay “The World’s Last Night” (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p. 385)

I take Jesus literally at his word, and do not hold to a futurist view BTW!

I am just wondering what futurist, whom take Jesus words literally, do with this passage!

God bless!

 

[RPRPsych]

I take Jesus literally at his word, and do not hold to a futurist view BTW!

I am just wondering what futurist, whom take Jesus words literally, do with this passage!

God bless!

I agree with you.

Orthodox preterism (the amillennial view) is the best position to take with regard to these passages.

Attempting to do otherwise (pre- or post-millennial view) leads one into a maze of intellectual gymnastics, which come in both Protestant and Catholic flavours - the spiritus mundi spares no one!

 

[gmx2014]

Matthew 24
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
34 “I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place. 35 The earth and the heavens will disappear, but my words will never disappear.

My thought is that “this generation” could mean this life cycle. We live from eternity to eternity (which means, life cycle to life cycle).

 

[Cathoholic]

Thread Question: Do futurist end times interpretations lead to Jesus being a false prophet?

Phony interpretations CAN lead people into wrongly THINKING Jesus was a false prophet. It not only can but has.

If we are to take Jesus at his word literally, and not allegorize, or spiritualize what He said, how can a futurist interpret this passage, without making Jesus out to be a false prophet?

Probably because this prophesy of Jesus’ has layered meanings and cannot be reduced down to one sense.

A “Coming of the Lord” means “Covenant Judgment” as Dr. Scott Hahn explains in his series on the Book of Revelation “The End” (CDs here or MP3 downloads here).

That generation DID see Covenant Judgment at the time of the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem. But the verses you discuss, must not be reduced down to the destruction of Jerusalem alone.

Dr. Brant Pitre also talks about this phenomenon. This is an audio series you may want to consider: Jesus and the End Times: A Catholic View of the Last Days CD (Here and a sample can be heard here).

It is true for the destruction of Jerusalem (that is what a “coming of the Lord” can mean in an Old Testament sense).

And it is ALSO true in another sense, for the end of the world in another sense (the destruction of Jerusalem was a microcosm of what will happen at the end of time).

But it is ALSO true for the end of our lives in even another sense.

Here is the CCC talking about the different senses of Sacred Scripture.

CCC 115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

CCC 116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

CCC 117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

  1. The *allegorical sense*. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.84 

      2. The *moral sense*. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".85 

      3. The *anagogical sense* (Greek: *anagoge*, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

 

[onemangang]

I think many of these futurist views are dangerous, and lead people away from Christ, and into a myriad of confusion!

I find the Orthodox Preterist Amillenial view to be logically consistent, easy to follow, defend and also, to be very Christo-centric oh yeah, and true!

I do find Brad Pintre to be insightful, and easy to listen to, so thanks for the link! I love the Sacred Page site he runs, he did some great stuff in regards to the Essene Jewish Community

I think I will pass on Dr. Scott Hahn, I guess I just don’t see what everybody else sees

I think he is a great scholar, but so incredibly boring . Just once, I would like to get through one of his teachings, without hearing " back when I was a Protestant". I don’t care Scott, just say your piece and move on. Will you every become just simply Catholic, or will you forever be Ex-Protestant minister Dr. Scott Hahn sorry for the rant,but yeashh!

Are their views in the Early Church, contrary to the futurist views which that make Jesus out to be a false prophet?

St. John Chrysostom
"But of wars in Jerusalem is He speaking; for it is not surely of those without, and everywhere in the world; for what did they care for these? And besides, He would thus say nothing new, if He were speaking of the calamities of the world at large, which are happening always. For before this, were wars, and tumults, and fightings; but He speaks of the Jewish wars coming upon them at no great distance, for henceforth the Roman arms were a matter of anxiety. Since then these things also were sufficient to confound them, He foretells them all.
Therefore He saith, they shall come not by themselves or at once, but with signs. For that the Jews may not say, that they who then believed were the authors of these evils, therefore hath He told them also of the cause of their coming upon **them. “For verily I say unto you,” He said before, “all these things shall come upon this generation,” having made mention of the stain of blood on them. " (Homilies)
**

(On Matthew 23:36)
"For I will ask them, Did He send the prophets and wise men? Did they slay them in their synagogue? Was their house left desolate? Did all the vengeance come upon that generation? It is quite plain that it was so, and no man gainsays it." (Homily LXXIV on MATT. XXIII. 29, 30.)

Origen
"I challenge anyone to prove my statement untrue if I say that the entire Jewish nation was destroyed less than one whole generation later on account of these sufferings which they inflicted on Jesus. For it was, I believe, forty-two years from the time when they crucified Jesus to the destruction of Jerusalem." (Contra Celsus, IV, xii, xiii; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, pp.501, 502.)

But let this Jew of Celsus, who does not believe that He foreknew all that happened to Him, consider how, while Jerusalem was still standing, and the whole Jewish worship celebrated in it, Jesus foretold what would befall it from the hand of the Romans. For they will not maintain that the acquaintances and pupils of Jesus Himself handed down His teaching contained in the Gospels without committing it to writing, and left His disciples without the memoirs of Jesus contained in their works. Now in these it is recorded, that “when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies, then shall ye know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” **But at that time there were no armies around Jerusalem, encompassing and enclosing and besieging it; for the siege began in the reign of Nero, and lasted till the government of Vespasian, whose son Titus destroyed Jerusalem, **on account, as Josephus says, of James the Just, the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, but in reality, as the truth makes clear, on account of Jesus Christ the Son of God." (Origen Against Celcus, Book 2, ch. 13)

“But when he goes on to say that “those who inflicted death upon Jesus suffered nothing afterwards through so long a time,” we must inform him, as well as all who are disposed to learn the truth, that the city in which the Jewish people called for the crucifixion of Jesus with shouts of "Crucify him, crucify him,” preferring to have the robber set free, who had been cast into prison for sedition and murder and Jesus, who had been delivered through envy, to be crucified, — **that this city not long afterwards was attacked, and, after a long siege, was utterly overthrown and laid waste; for God judged the inhabitants of that place **unworthy of living together the life of citizens. And yet, though it may seem an incredible thing to say, God spared this people in delivering them to their enemies; for He saw that they were incurably averse to any amendment, and were daily sinking deeper and deeper into evil. And all this befell them, because the blood of Jesus was shed at their instigation and on their land; and the land was no longer able to bear those who were guilty of so fearful a crime against Jesus. (Origen Against Celcus, Book 8, ch. 42)

Eusebius (A.D. 325)
"And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, **the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men." (Ecclesiastical History, Book III, Ch. 5)

 

[Cathoholic]

Just another quick suggestion.

Consider listening to this free audio out from Dr. Hahn’s website (from Dr. Pitre).

From the series: Proclaiming the Kingdom: The Gospel of Matthew (Here)

And here is the specific talk (from Dr. Pitre): The Destruction of the Temple and the End of the World: Matthew Chapters 23-25 (Here).

Here is Dr. Pitre’s outline for this talk too.

 

[onemangang]

Just another quick suggestion.

Consider listening to this free audio out from Dr. Hahn’s website (from Dr. Pitre).

From the series: Proclaiming the Kingdom: The Gospel of Matthew (Here)

And here is the specific talk (from Dr. Pitre): The Destruction of the Temple and the End of the World: Matthew Chapters 23-25 (Here).

Thanks

Btw, futurist views leading people away, take Bertrand Russell for instance, and how the prevailing futurist view on Christ, further separated Russell.

Bertrand Russell wrote in his book “Why I Am Not A Christian.” In the section "Defects in Christ’s Teaching.”

“He(Jesus) certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time. There are a great many texts that prove that.”

(Jesus) added!

 

[COPLAND_3]

The Greek word for ‘come to pass’ actually implies the meaning of ‘begin to come to pass’ which is also used in the prophecy about John the Baptist and his ministry, given to his father. It has a meaning of the events starting but will be fulfilled over a period of time, and those who are there at that moment will experience the beginning of that fulfillment. So how the words mean is this, This generation shall not pass away until these things begin to come to pass. Just as Zechariah heard the prophecy of his son John the Baptist and was told that John"s ministry was going to happen in his life time, the prophecy came true and he saw it, but not the whole ministry but only the beginning. The same with the hearers of Jesus who did see it begin to come to pass, yet its still being fulfilled and will reach is fullfillment later.

 

[ericc]

Fr William Most in his "Scripture Full of Errors? " wrote about Form Criticism quoting this example:

“This generation will not pass away until all these things be
accomplished.” It did not mean Jesus thought the end was near. No,
we gather from Mt 24 that the disciples had asked two questions:
what are signs for fall of Jerusalem? signs for your return? Form
criticism shows that often passages are put together out of lines
that once were independent. So we can see that Mk 13:30 originally
referred to the fall of Jerusalem.

 

[onemangang]

The Greek word for ‘come to pass’ actually implies the meaning of ‘begin to come to pass’ which is also used in the prophecy about John the Baptist and his ministry, given to his father. It has a meaning of the events starting but will be fulfilled over a period of time, and those who are there at that moment will experience the beginning of that fulfillment. So how the words mean is this, This generation shall not pass away until these things begin to come to pass. Just as Zechariah heard the prophecy of his son John the Baptist and was told that John"s ministry was going to happen in his life time, the prophecy came true and he saw it, but not the whole ministry but only the beginning. The same with the hearers of Jesus who did see it begin to come to pass, yet its still being fulfilled and will reach is fullfillment later.

Ok, but this generation would have been in the time of Christ, not some distant future apocalyptic generation, according to such a reading!

My point still remains, this generation, was during the time of Christ, any other view, inferring a future apocalyptic generation, renders Christ to be a false prophet!

I understand, something like the kingdom of God is here, now, but not yet in its fullness, until Christ return. It has begun, but will be fully actualized at Christ return. That’s different than saying, the kingdom of God is not here, but will be when Christ returns in some distant future, that will be the kingdom of God! It makes Christ and Scripture contradictory!

God bless!

 

[COPLAND_3]

Ok, but this generation would have been in the time of Christ, not some distant future apocalyptic generation, according to such a reading!

My point still remains, this generation, was during the time of Christ, any other view, inferring a future apocalyptic generation, renders Christ to be a false prophet!

I understand, something like the kingdom of God is here, now, but not yet in its fullness, until Christ return. It has begun, but will be fully actualized at Christ return. That’s different than saying, the kingdom of God is not here, but will be when Christ returns in some distant future, that will be the kingdom of God! It makes Christ and Scripture contradictory!

God bless!

Ok I see, your correct.

 

[Jeanne1184]

Matthew 24: 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Mark 13:30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.

Luke 21:32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place.

If we are to take Jesus at his word literally, and not allegorize, or spiritualize what He said, how can a futurist interpret this passage, without making Jesus out to be a false prophet?

I have heard some futurist change the meaning of ***this generation *** to mean something other than what was plainly said.

Since Jesus had a first century audience, wouldn’t His audience have to been mislead by Jesus, if he did mean ***this generation *** differently, than what was plainly stated!

C.S Lewis understood language very well, and look what this passage prompted him to say on Matthew 24

C.S. Lewis
The apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. "Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. This is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible." (Essay “The World’s Last Night” (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p. 385)

I take Jesus literally at his word, and do not hold to a futurist view BTW!

I am just wondering what futurist, whom take Jesus words literally, do with this passage!

God bless!

Good question and interesting find by Lewis. I’ve never questioned it before but I’m going to take a stab at it from trusting that Jesus means what He said - but His use of “generation” necessarily had a broader meaning.

Etymology defs for ‘generation’ that gave me a idea…1) the propagation of living organisms; procreation. 2) A set stage in the development of computing or of a specific technology. [from 20th c.]

I pick “a set stage in development” of the overall Plan.

We know that the current people came from Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve replenished the earth after a generation of X number of years was ended/destroyed/completed.

What if Jesus means that this current generation of human beings (from the beginning of Adam/Eve until the signs occur) will not be destroyed any earlier by other Forces.

Kinda like a football game with four quarters - and each quarter is called one generation. This phase/generation of Mankind, perhaps?

 

[onemangang]

Good question and interesting find by Lewis. I’ve never questioned it before but I’m going to take a stab at it from trusting that Jesus means what He said - but His use of “generation” necessarily had a broader meaning.

Etymology defs for ‘generation’ that gave me a idea…1) the propagation of living organisms; procreation. 2) A set stage in the development of computing or of a specific technology. [from 20th c.]

I pick “a set stage in development” of the overall Plan.

We know that the current people came from Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve replenished the earth after a generation of X number of years was ended/destroyed/completed.

What if Jesus means that this current generation of human beings (from the beginning of Adam/Eve until the signs occur) will not be destroyed any earlier by other Forces.

Kinda like a football game with four quarters - and each quarter is called one generation. This phase/generation of Mankind, perhaps?

I think that it would render Jesus words useless to His first century audience, if that were the case!

That is why people like C.S Lewis and Bertrand Russell can make such statements, either Jesus message has meaning to His audience, or not!

It is men who have to come up with an entire theology, just to scrape together some sort of value to Jesus words. It’s like there is a whole apologetic, on trying to salvage Jesus either, obvious blunder, or lie. Now there is a completely different view that doesn’t get much traction within American Christendom, and that is Jesus meant This generation to be completed in 40 years, which was the fall of the Temple in A.D 70, in regards to the This Generation passages in the Gospels.

God bless!

 

[Jeanne1184]

I think that it would render Jesus words useless to His first century audience, if that were the case!

That is why people like C.S Lewis and Bertrand Russell can make such statements, either Jesus message has meaning to His audience, or not!

It is men who have to come up with an entire theology, just to scrape together some sort of value to Jesus words. It’s like there is a whole apologetic, on trying to salvage Jesus either, obvious blunder, or lie. Now there is a completely different view that doesn’t get much traction within American Christendom, and that is Jesus meant This generation to be completed in 40 years, which was the fall of the Temple in A.D 70, in regards to the This Generation passages in the Gospels.

God bless!

In Matt. 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, **so will be the coming of the Son of Man. **

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

31 And he will send his **angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, **from one end of the heavens to the other.

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I thought the only problem was expanding the meaning of ‘generation’ to fit the overall theme of the chapter. Seems to me that “full end of the age” (Gr. ‘conclusion of the eon’) is the key, and references to 2nd Coming and other specific details refer to End Times.

Even if they could have gotten a substantial number of copies of these particular chapters written and disseminated in even 70 years, everyone would have figured pretty quickly that Jesus must have meant it another way. This chapter wasn’t fulfilled (in my eyes) when the Temple was destroyed.

There are plenty of stumbling blocks in the NT. If one is looking for a ‘way out’ instead of a ‘way in’, it takes little effort to find one of those doors - with Jesus in their midst, 1st century, or today.

What’s really strange about this, though, is that you imply that a vast numbers of learned men spent/spend inordinate amounts of time trying to prove Jesus a liar or incompetent. That’s surprising - particularly if you are including CS Lewis in that mindset. I approach the Bible (today) as a believer seeking Understanding, no longer as an atheist/doubter looking for proof of ‘Divine Imperfection’.

I appreciate CS Lewis more than you would know - his spiritual clues in “Through the Looking Glass” and “Chronicles of Narnia” amaze me. Perhaps he was fixated on ‘generation’ for others reasons. I don’t know - cuz I sure don’t see anything hinky.

Unless a human being dies and ascends, there’s always the possibility of over-thinking or not thinking enough. But if it turns out that I’ve over-simplified, and the name of the Anti-Christ falls out of that pickle, I’m all ears.

The simplest explanation works for me in this case, but I understand that it may not work for others.

 

[Jeanne1184]

I appreciate CS Lewis more than you would know - his spiritual clues in “Through the Looking Glass” and “Chronicles of Narnia” amaze me. Perhaps he was fixated on ‘generation’ for others reasons. I don’t know - cuz I sure don’t see anything hinky.

Oops, did it again. Through the Looking Glass is the other 'Lewis" - Lewis Carroll.

 

[onemangang]

I thought the only problem was expanding the meaning of ‘generation’ to fit the overall theme of the chapter. Seems to me that “full end of the age” (Gr. ‘conclusion of the eon’) is the key, and references to 2nd Coming and other specific details refer to End Times…

I believe the end of an eon doesn’t necessitate, the end of earth as we know it, rather the end of the eon, being the end of sacrificial Judaism, temple worship, and identity apart from Christ.

.

Even if they could have gotten a substantial number of copies of these particular chapters written and disseminated in even 70 years, everyone would have figured pretty quickly that Jesus must have meant it another way. This chapter wasn’t fulfilled (in my eyes) when the Temple was destroyed. .

Ok, we beg to differ then!

.

There are plenty of stumbling blocks in the NT. If one is looking for a ‘way out’ instead of a ‘way in’, it takes little effort to find one of those doors - with Jesus in their midst, 1st century, or today. .

If Jesus said “mark my words, judgement will come to Israel, and the temple will be destroyed, and sacrificial worship as you know it, all this will come by the hands of the Roman Empire, in fourty years, from this day,” now would somebody be looking for a way out, if they believe that came to pass? I believe all was accomplished in His prophesy, so no looking for a way out! I find those who deny it are mistaken, and undermine the prophesy!
So for me, it is a truth claim, denying is denying truth.

This is my opinion, being that this is not a Church Dogma, and I am certainly not above reproach, I just believe the prophesy came to pass, in regards to the this generation passages in the gospels

What’s really strange about this, though, is that you imply that a vast numbers of learned men spent/spend inordinate amounts of time trying to prove Jesus a liar or incompetent. That’s surprising - particularly if you are including CS Lewis in that mindset. I approach the Bible (today) as a believer seeking Understanding, no longer as an atheist/doubter looking for proof of ‘Divine Imperfection’.

I am not implying men like C.S. Lewis are trying to prove Jesus a liar, only draw the conclusion from faulty interpretation that Jesus was wrong, which can lead to dismissing Him as God incarnate. That may have not been the case for C.S Lewis, but may have contributed to Bertrand Russell’s disbelief!

I appreciate CS Lewis more than you would know - his spiritual clues in “Through the Looking Glass” and “Chronicles of Narnia” amaze me. Perhaps he was fixated on ‘generation’ for others reasons. I don’t know - cuz I sure don’t see anything hinky.

I think that as a linguist C.S Lewis would logically conclude that Jesus was wrong based on a preconceived faulty view of un-fulfillment, if he had a view that saw eon as the end of temple worship, and Jewish way of life, he would never of made that statement.

Unless a human being dies and ascends, there’s always the possibility of over-thinking or not thinking enough. But if it turns out that I’ve over-simplified, and the name of the Anti-Christ falls out of that pickle, I’m all ears.

The simplest explanation works for me in this case, but I understand that it may not work for others.

The simplest explanation, to me, is Jesus meant what He said, and it came to pass, contrary futurist explanations, only seem to weaken the message, IMHO

God bless

 

[Jeanne1184]

Origen
“I challenge anyone to prove my statement untrue if I say that the entire Jewish nation was destroyed less than one whole generation later on account of these sufferings which they inflicted on Jesus. For it was, I believe, forty-two years from the time when they crucified Jesus to the destruction of Jerusalem.” (Contra Celsus, IV, xii, xiii; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, pp.501, 502.)

 

[onemangang]

It just doesn’t ring true, for me, that the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD because of retribution for the Crucifixion. I don’t ‘challenge’ Origen, I just don’t serve an angry, spiteful/vengeful God. When Jesus said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”, did God refuse or renege?

Is the OT God and spiteful/vengeful God for judging Isreal by the hands of a pagan nation like Assyria, in Isaiah 10?

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+10&version=RSVCE

Isaiah 10:5 Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger,
the staff of my fury![a]
6 Against a godless nation I send him,
and against the people of my wrath I command him,
to take spoil and seize plunder,
and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
7 But he does not so intend,
and his mind does not so think;
but it is in his mind to destroy,
and to cut off nations not a few;
8 for he says:
“Are not my commanders all kings?
9 Is not Calno like Car′chemish?
Is not Hamath like Arpad?
Is not Samar′ia like Damascus?
10 As my hand has reached to the kingdoms of the idols
whose graven images were greater than those of Jerusalem and Samar′ia,
11 shall I not do to Jerusalem and her idols
as I have done to Samar′ia and her images?”
12 ** When the Lord has finished all his work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem he will punish the arrogant boasting of the king of Assyria and his haughty pride. 13 For he says:

“By the strength of my hand I have done it,
and by my wisdom, for I have understanding;
I have removed the boundaries of peoples,
and have plundered their treasures;
like a bull I have brought down those who sat on thrones.

God using pagan Rome, against unrepentant Israel, is not much different from using Assyria against unrepentant Israel.

In both cases you have a remnant group of faithful, who will turn their hearts back to The Lord, after such a edict of judgment

The Jews had a difficult enough time getting the message that Christ was the New Covenant - and the only one in effect for Atonement. There was time allotted for the Word to spread, but if the Temple had not been destroyed and other conditions made such that a new one could not be rebuilt, then the Jews would have continued their then-worthless animal sacrifices (and likely would still be doing them). Four thousand years of ritual is a tough habit to break, I’d think.

They had plenty of signs, and Christ did say “This Generation” which is commonly known to be 40 years, as a matter of fact, the Talmud records the red ribbon of the scapegoat (Yom Kippur) would turn white, when the atoning sacrifice was acceptable by God , but ceased to turn white and remained red, from A.D. 30 through A.D. 70 when the temple fell, and sacrificial Judaism fell with it!

God bless!**

 

[fisherman_carl]

Matthew 24: 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

“24:34 this generation: The expression in Greek can mean “this race” or “these contemporaries of mine”. The latter meaning best fits this context, not only because Jesus envisions his initial coming within the lifetime of his first disciples (16:28), but also because he often addresses his unbelieving contemporaries with the same term (11:16), either contrasting them with an earlier generation that responded to God’s message (12:41–42) or implicitly comparing them with the faithless generation of Israel that failed to enter the Promised Land (12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; cf. Deut 1:35; 32:5).”
(ICSB)

“Ver. 34. This generation; i.e. the nation of the Jews shall not cease to exist, until all these things shall be accomplished: thus we see the nation of the Jews still continue, and will certainly continue to the end of the world. T.—Then the cross, which has been a scandal to the Jew, and a stumbling-block to the Gentile, shall appear in the heavens, for the consolation of the good Christian. Hoc signum crucis erit in cœlo, cum Dominus ad judicandum venerit.—If it be to be understood of the destruction of Jerusalem, the sense may be, this race of men now living; if of the last day of judgment, this generation of the faithful, saith Theophylactus,[4] shall be continued: i.e. the Church of Christ, to the end of the world. Wi.—This race, I tell you in very truth, shall not pass away till all this be finally accomplished in the ruin of Jerusalem, the most express figure of the destruction and end of the world. V.—By generation, our Saviour does not mean the people that were in existence at that time, but the faithful of his Church; thus says the psalmist: this is the generation of them that seek the Lord. Ps. 23, v. 6. S. Chrys. hom. lxxvii.”
(Haydock)

"34. “Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass,” &c. What, “this generation,” refers to, is not easily seen. Some understand by it, with St. Jerome, the human race, and particularly, the Jewish people, whom our Redeemer frequently calls, “this generation” (Luke 17:25; Matt. 23:36). And our Redeemer’s object would be, if we limit the word to the Jewish people, to convey, that while other nations and tribes and peoples would pass away, before the Day of Judgment, without a vestige of them being left, the Jewish people would be preserved, as a testimony of their foolish expectation of their Messiah, according to the false conceptions they had regarding Him; and also, as an argument of God’s mercy, in calling them at the end of the world, to the faith, by sending one “from Sion, who would turn away iniquity from Jacob” (Rom. 11:26). His object in saying it, if we understand the words of the human race, would be, to assure us, that the world would not end till all these things would happen, so certain was His assertion; and this is conveyed in words of the following verse: “Heaven and earth shall pass away,” &c. Others, with St. Chrysostom, understood, “this generation,” of the new generation of faithful believers, begotten by Christ; as if He said: that, no matter what evils would arise, what persecutions it had to encounter, the Christian religion would continue for ever to flourish on earth, until the Church militant would exchange her state for that of the Church triumphant. Others say, that it refers to the generation of men whom He was addressing; and, then, these give “all these things” a restricted meaning. As in the preceding, our Redeemer had been referring to the precursory signs and accompanying events, both of the destruction of Jerusalem, and of the Day of Judgment—the former being a type and figure of the latter—these expositors confine “all these things” to the signs and events relating to the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened, before all the generation He then addressed, had passed away, that is, they happened in the lifetime of some of them. The chief objection to this interpretation is, that it restricts, without any seeming justification, the words, “all these things,” to only a part of the things referred to, viz., those relating to the destruction of Jerusalem. It might, perhaps, be said, that as the signs and events relating to the destruction of Jerusalem, were types of those which shall precede, and take place on, the Day of Judgment, all shall take place on the former occasion, viz., the events relating to Jerusalem, literally; and those having reference to the Day of Judgment, typically, during the lifetime of some men, who were living at the time our Redeemer uttered those words.

Others, by generation (γενεαν) understand age, or period of time, thereby meaning, the period of time which was to elapse between Christ’s first and second coming, which is termed the last age of the world, and hence, termed by St. John, “the last hour,” and by St. Paul, “the ends of the world” (1 Cor. 10:11), being the last period of time within which any remarkable change in religion shall take place, until the end of all shall arrive. Hence, the words may mean, all these things shall happen, before the final end of this age on which we have entered shall have arrived. The coming of the Son of man shall put an end to the age on which we have entered. No other remarkable religious change shall take place until His final coming."
(An Exposition of the Gospels of Matthew and Mark)

 

[fisherman_carl]

Mark 13:30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.

“13:30 this generation: These words of Jesus were fulfilled with Jerusalem’s demise in A.D. 70, within the lifetime of his contemporaries (Mt 10:23; 16:28). His words are thus more reliable than the stable universe itself (13:31). See note on Mt 24:35.”
(ICSB)

“24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away: A solemn prediction, not a hypothetical contrast. Jesus thus prophesies the termination of the Old Covenant order, i.e., the old creation awaiting renewal in Christ (cf. 2 Cor 5:17; Rev 21:1). As the OT era gave way to the NT age established by Christ’s powerful words, so even the NT age will give way to eternal life at the end of history. ● Jesus’ statement recalls OT oracles that describe God’s word (Is 40:8) and salvation (Is 51:6) outlasting the frail elements of the cosmos.”
(ICSB)