Do Homosexuals Have The Equal Rights in the USA?

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curtish1947 said:
Hmmmmmmmm? Someone wrote in their signature, “What God says to us through others…”

Wow!

You are a chaste homosexual, therefore you are actually perfectly in line with the Catholic Position on this.

So, who disagrees with you disagrees with the whole Holy Roman Catholic Church. Do you all understand that?

The Holy Roman Catholic Church says it is okay to be but not to do. It is okay to be Trans-sexual, Bi-sexual, Homo-sexual, but it is not okay to act upon those feelings.

You are a chaste homosexual. You are posting this openly. You are a lovely soul. It takes a lovely soul, not a person, to do this. You are amazing, unique, and beautiful. All souls are like this, but the person gets in the way sometimes.

The agenda of the non-Christian homosexual community, I would guess does not coincide with the view of the individual homosexual or even transgendered person.

You did not choose to be gay. I am saying that not only to test my understanding, but, to say what I have learned over the years. Homosexuality, is, not a conscience choice. It is other than that.

Who, would choose, riducule by most people. Who???

I asked a person once, she was a lesbian, and she said she did not choose. All the Lesbians, Homosexuals, Bisexuals, Transgendered people do not choose and never have chosen, to the best of their and almost anyone else’s knowledge. Why do you think, elsewise, there is so much work in this field with no long term results so far. They don’t understand it. That means if specialists, and almost everyone else does not understand it, it is very difficult to control if at all.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church, like in all matters, defers to proven science. Their position has not changed from the Biblical view that God has put in the Bible, because science knows little to nothing about this. Remember, science and God cannot dissagree, one will be right and one is wrong. When science proves a concept, then the church merely looks at how they, themselves, got it wrong. They then change. They do not change what is true. They do not change the Bible, they cannot. They merely look into if they made an error in interpretation. That is all they can do. If the interpretation is correct, then, they must accept the interpretation. The reason for this, is, all new science is capable of error. Even old science like the chemical desription of combustion, lasted for many many years as truth. Phlogiston, was eventually shown to have error. If Phlogiston, were used as a description of combustion, and the Bible said otherwise the Church would have refused to accept this definition.
Can you imagine the uproar. “How can you not accept science? They proved it. You people are all…” Imagine. You have all seen this kind of speech.

The church remains staunchly God Driven, not people pleasers. It is okay to be. It is not okay to act on it. It is not okay for anyone else to judge. It is okay therefore, commendable, to reveal, be respected, be liked, even though this or another issue is present in… what??.. a person. An adopted son. An adopted daughter. In a son or daughter of God.

If God is their father, even though what we call an adoptive father, do you think He would like it if you insult or criticize one of His own children unfairly???

Curt
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Who decides when you have sex? The Church? The State? Who controls this?

Here are the alternatives regarding SSA:
  1. Don’t know, or inconclusive.
  2. Gay gene or other biological condition.
  3. A series of circumstances in the home during early childhood.
Here is a staement from the Catholic Medical Association:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Who decides when you have sex? The Church? The State? Who controls this?

Here are the alternatives regarding SSA:
  1. Don’t know, or inconclusive.
  2. Gay gene or other biological condition.
  3. A series of circumstances in the home during early childhood.
Here is a staement from the Catholic Medical Association:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Peace,
Ed
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So that is why all those catholic parents spend their lives praying that their kids will stop being gay. Did you read how many times part of the early course of “treatment” is hoping it goes away?

Peace
 
portarica said:
So that is why all those catholic parents spend their lives praying that their kids will stop being gay. Did you read how many times part of the early course of “treatment” is hoping it goes away?

Peace
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What’s wrong with research and making an honest assessment? I had no phobia toward the gay people I worked with. I did date a bisexual young lady who decided to end her behavior after giving her life to Christ.

Hoping what goes away? Sexual attraction? We all have it. The ultimate question is: Who gets to control it?

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
What’s wrong with research and making an honest assessment? I had no phobia toward the gay people I worked with. I did date a bisexual young lady who decided to end her behavior after giving her life to Christ.

Hoping what goes away? Sexual attraction? We all have it. The ultimate question is: Who gets to control it?
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Control one’s sexual attractions? If only it were that easy!
 
That easy? Well, who decides except you?

If we accept the current advertised falsehood that no one can control themselves, what does that say about each of us?

I was born before The Pill and all of the other modern methods. The average number of kids in my neighborhood was TWO. Not 10. People were not having kids left and right. Abortion was not legal.

Everything starts with an expectation. When you sign up for college classes, do you go in hoping to fail?

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
That easy? Well, who decides except you?

If we accept the current advertised falsehood that no one can control themselves, what does that say about each of us?
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Are you talking about behavior or attraction? One cannot decide what kind of person they are drawn towards, it just happens. I’m cursed with same-sex attractions and have never felt comfortable with the idea of becoming so intimate with a woman. The only thing I can control is what I do with it, which the church teaches is…nothing.
 
With civil unions and domestic partnerships accessible to homosexual couples, homosexuals DO have equal rights and protections as afforded by law in the U.S. However, they still insist on a right to “marry” on top of these laws. Further, they clamor for special rights and protections that they wish applied in their favor against time-held beliefs and values.

Non-Catholics, along with Catholics NOT faithful to its teachings, push it so far to unreasonableness in areas, e.g., gay couples forcing rights to adopt from Catholic agencies and putting their adopted children in Catholic schools.

Homosexuals are free to express their views. On the contrary, they want to silence the Catholic Church, even as the CC preaches charity and compassion to all who live with same sex attraction, whether they act on it or not. Those acting on their SSA want society to approve their lifestyle.

Marginalized as a minority group? The question on the OP has this part the other way around, in my opinion. If CC critics, which are many, pull away and see the forest instead of the trees, it is the faithful Catholics that are being marginalized (and also ridiculed) in our society on the issue of homosexual rights.

Perhaps people should be concerned where this march by homosexuals to achieve “full equality” may lead. With the left ever so rabid in crushing conservative thought and action in this country, our future generations may have to face other serious challenges, such as a grown and dominant Muslim population. Do those in positions of power and influence and boldly undertaking social engineering projects even think of a conflicting movement rising, that would potentially change “rights” and balance of power drastically? Would the laws of the land stripped of Judeo-Christian values withstand such a consequent upheaval? This may not be imminent, you might say, and all those reading this post would not be around anymore should it happen, anyway, but it is not improbable with a perfect storm resulting from a conflation of fervid agenda from different groups of people.

While this poll is a survey on a Catholic board, and not representative of how voters in the U.S. might feel, it shows at the time of my posting that 53% believe homosexuals have equal rights here. The dissenting 33% is not surprising. I am dismayed by the nearly 10% who do not care. That they are probably Catholics dismays me more. In real voting in national and local elections, it is indifferentism that helps the forces that would like to see our country go down the wrong path.

. . . . . .
 
You have to consider how the poll was worded. Under this reality frankly I’m surprized your surprized.

Had you said “Should Homosexuals acting off their feelings have Equal Rights in the USA in the opinion of Catholics” You would have different results for sure.

You would also have different results had you said. “Should Homosexuals living a chaste life in the USA have Equal Rights in the opinion of Catholics” Again different results would arrise.

This country is boiling pot of many religions including none. What happens in the US is not a indicator of the desire and instruction of the Catholic Faith. Reality is not how we would like things to be, but how it actually is.

How you live is no different than how I live, be it I’m hetrosexual and don’t act off my feelings. Had I chose to live a life of Sexual Immorality is the issue in the Catholic Faith which would be no different than with you. Not the fact that I have a Spiritual battle existing. Christ doesn’t reward for Good results but for patience and hardship undergone for his sake. Nor does he chastise Souls for immoral thinking but acting off that thinking. The immoral thinking is not normal nor of God. Again its a spiritual battle which is defeated through intercesion of Prayer. We all have a Cross to bear, but thats not whats important. What is important is the Grace we choose carry that Cross with. And those who seem to bear the heaviest Cross are those who chose to walk with Christ.

Its not important how you once lived and how much a sinner you were. Whats important is what God has bought you to realize and where you stand with the Lord today. He knows exactly where he wants you to be placed. Have you ever thought you may be exactly where you are because the Lord wants others to see and hear about the Cross you bear? Through your strength others will find strength. Sometimes its better to understand than to be understood. The best teacher is a good example.

Just Sayin:)

God Bless, GT
 
InSearchofGrace said:
With civil unions and domestic partnerships accessible to homosexual couples, homosexuals DO have equal rights and protections as afforded by law in the U.S. However, they still insist on a right to “marry” on top of these laws. Further, they clamor for special rights and protections that they wish applied in their favor against time-held beliefs and values.

Non-Catholics, along with Catholics NOT faithful to its teachings, push it so far to unreasonableness in areas, e.g., gay couples forcing rights to adopt from Catholic agencies and putting their adopted children in Catholic schools.

Homosexuals are free to express their views. On the contrary, they want to silence the Catholic Church, even as the CC preaches charity and compassion to all who live with same sex attraction, whether they act on it or not. Those acting on their SSA want society to approve their lifestyle.

Marginalized as a minority group? The question on the OP has this part the other way around, in my opinion. If CC critics, which are many, pull away and see the forest instead of the trees, it is the faithful Catholics that are being marginalized (and also ridiculed) in our society on the issue of homosexual rights.

Perhaps people should be concerned where this march by homosexuals to achieve “full equality” may lead. With the left ever so rabid in crushing conservative thought and action in this country, our future generations may have to face other serious challenges, such as a grown and dominant Muslim population. Do those in positions of power and influence and boldly undertaking social engineering projects even think of a conflicting movement rising, that would potentially change “rights” and balance of power drastically? Would the laws of the land stripped of Judeo-Christian values withstand such a consequent upheaval? This may not be imminent, you might say, and all those reading this post would not be around anymore should it happen, anyway, but it is not improbable with a perfect storm resulting from a conflation of fervid agenda from different groups of people.

While this poll is a survey on a Catholic board, and not representative of how voters in the U.S. might feel, it shows at the time of my posting that 53% believe homosexuals have equal rights here. The dissenting 33% is not surprising. I am dismayed by the nearly 10% who do not care. That they are probably Catholics dismays me more. In real voting in national and local elections, it is indifferentism that helps the forces that would like to see our country go down the wrong path.

. . . . . .
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Polls on the internet mean little if anything. They certainly aren’t scientific and are just as subject to ballot stuffing as real unsupervised elections.

Next, no need to bring up Muslims at all. The Church has everything covered. Parts of the United States may simply turn into mission territory - again.

Homosexuals want marriage - not equal rights/contracts. Ellen Degeneres said this to candidate John McCain on her show. When McCain mentioned contracts, she insisted on marriage. Why? Civil Unions would be “separate but equal” in the eyes of some radicals. It is not enough for gay people to have marriage either. The moment their version of marriage became legal in Massachusetts, the full power and force of the State was put into action. Little kids in public schools got gay storybooks. When a parent complained, he was told “this is not a parental notification issue.” Teachers bring in their marriage partner to class. Hey. What’s the big deal?

God forbid,
Ed
 
Gays have the same rights as any other citizen. However, in practice they are not given the same freedoms and access to certain jobs and social environments. The biggest difference is the still wide-spread scorn that much of society deals out to them for their romantic/sexual orientation. That I, a heterosexual (married, with kids), have been called “perverted” and “gay” and “Satanic” (simply for supporting gay issues) here at this Christian website that professes to have “charity” and “love” for ALL sinners is testament enough to the deep animosity that gays face every day. Imagine the difference, then, between trying to swim in this culture as a young gay adult and as a young heterosexual adult. Perhaps there is no technical “right” to grow up unharrassed, unabused, unvilified, unscorned, unmocked, and unrejected from churches and the military and the institution of marriage. But my sexuality, which I seem to have been born with, in no way sets me up for any of these conditions through my life. But I cannot say the same for gays.
 
To larkin31 -

I am a heterosexual male who was beaten up while walking home from school. For no reason. I was harassed for having different interests than the majority of my classmates. I was knocked to the ground, had a gun put to my head, stripped of my clothes and tossed into a dumpster one night.

A little balance, please.

Peace,
Ed
 
This is a question that has interested me since I first pondered if the term “gay rights” was actually meaningful and correct. After all, every person in the United States is afforded the same rights. I cannot marry a man, and a person with same-sex attraction cannot marry a man, either. This is simply in the definition of marriage, and definitions do discriminate by their very nature. The State has no authority whatsoever to change this definition anymore than it has the authority to change the sum 2 + 2 to equal 5. If, sadly, gay “marriages” become legal, they would never be real marriages 2 + 2 is always 4.
 
Windfish said:
definitions do discriminate by their very nature.
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Exactly. Definitions are for the most part limitations, for all civil governments, not just ours. The people who would be the first to agree with that would be the Founders. Government must have structure and regulation, and many citizens today are unaware of just how long our founders struggled to come up with a workable compromise to express that structure and those limitations. They knew that simply a document expressing the founding ideals (such as the Declaration) would doom the country to chaos (anarchy) and ultimately factions and self-destruction if the ideals could not be shaped within boundaries. Neither the Declaration nor the Constitution (including its amendments), nor the two together, imply limitless, ever-expanding rights. Nor do they enable self-generated rights by acts of personal proclamation.
 
Windfish said:
The State has no authority whatsoever to change this definition anymore than it has the authority to change the sum 2 + 2 to equal 5. If, sadly, gay “marriages” become legal, they would never be real marriages 2 + 2 is always 4.
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2 + 2 can equal 11.

The states and our national congress, through its lawmaking process, has the “right” and “authority” to change any law that it pleases, subject to judicial review. In several states, even a majority of the people, through referendum, has both the “right” and the “authority” to change laws and the legal definition of who may marry (receive a marriage license from the state). For you to deny this is simply absurd. And your math is not accurate in every case either.
 
edwest2 said:
I am a heterosexual male who was beaten up while walking home from school. For no reason. I was harassed for having different interests than the majority of my classmates. I was knocked to the ground, had a gun put to my head, stripped of my clothes and tossed into a dumpster one night.

A little balance, please.
Click to expand...
That happens to many people to varying degrees in school. It tends to happen a lot more to homosexual persons. Suicide statistics connected with those who are homosexual, especially those who are gender non-conforming and were “out” at an earlier age, would indicate that things tend to be much worse for those who are homosexual:

yapmn.com/pubs/Risk%20factors%20for%20attempted%20suicide1991.pdf

BTW, I don’t consider 41 out of 137 (30%) of homosexual persons to have attempted suicide to be balanced.
Windfish said:
This is a question that has interested me since I first pondered if the term “gay rights” was actually meaningful and correct. After all, every person in the United States is afforded the same rights. I cannot marry a man, and a person with same-sex attraction cannot marry a man, either. This is simply in the definition of marriage, and definitions do discriminate by their very nature. The State has no authority whatsoever to change this definition anymore than it has the authority to change the sum 2 + 2 to equal 5. If, sadly, gay “marriages” become legal, they would never be real marriages 2 + 2 is always 4.
Click to expand...
Who defines “marriage” to begin with and what gives them the authority to define it? Lets remember that whether individuals are recognized as married (regardless of how one defines marriage) has practical implications.
 
larkin31 said:
:rolleyes:

Ok. I can see how this conversation is going to go.

I’ll be called a “Satanist” soon. “Pervert”. “Anarchist.” “Idiot.” “Fool.”

Let’s see…
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“Satanist” “Pervert” “Anarchist” “Idiot” “Fool” “Hair hopper*” “Whipersnapper” “Not so smarty pants”

Feel better?
:cool:

*Baltimore slang: hair-hopper, a nickname for teenagers who favor mile-high 'dos that are kept towering with hairspray
 
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