Do i have to convert

[5Loaves]

I didn’t comment on the link and noticed there a statement that no preparation is requried before reception. But that is not actually true per the canons since is stated there that the priest may required some preparation as he deems necessary for the person.

If you mean the Team RCIA link it doesn’t say no preparation is required before reception. It says there is no Rite involved “All that is required of an Orthodox Christian is a profession of faith…There is no need for the bishop to approve his reception. Your pastor has full authority to receive the person…” The issue being addressed there is about parishes putting Orthodox into classes which prepare them for Rites, such as Reception (Confirmation) which they do not belong in. This unfortunately happens because someone in the RCIA/clergy fails to consult their tribunal for accurate instruction when someone presents him/herself who was baptized by an Orthodox priest.

Anyone, including someone coming from Orthodoxy, who wants to become Catholic would need some instruction so that they are able to make a profession of faith with an appropriate understanding of what the Church teaches this to mean.

If all OP is concerned about is reception of Holy Communion he does not need to be received into the Church. If he is found to have had Initiation (Baptism/Chrismation/Eucharist) in a Church with valid Holy Orders he can present himself for Eucharist in any Catholic Church if he is properly disposed. This may, depending on the Orthodox Church he is found to be part of, excommunicate him from his Orthodox Church. It would not make him Catholic but he doesn’t need to be Catholic to partake of Communion in a Catholic Church.

I don’t think so far anyone here is saying that OP belongs to a Church which is in full communion with the Catholic Church. Right? To his post “i follow the roman catholic church and i am tryin to find out if i am fully in communion with the church” the answer is “You are no fully in communion with the Catholic Church” It seems like he wants to both take communion, which if he has valid confirmation he can do now, and he wants to become Catholic, which would require discussion with a priest and making a confession and profession of faith.

 

[1ke]

This is true.
It appears however that the Assyrian Church of the East is not in communion with any other churches, either Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, or Catholic. So while OP likely has a valid baptism and is therefore a Christian, the rest will need to be determined by the tribunal.

Being “in communion” with another Church has nothing to do with it. The Assyrian Church has valid apostolic succession and valid sacraments, recognized by the Catholic Church. In fact, the Church has issued a document that allows Chaldean Catholics to receive Communion in that Church which it would not have done if the sacraments were not valid.

Therefore, if the OP has received all three sacraments of initiation, there is nothing else to do except a profession of faith. Those in valid particular Churches are not to be treated as if they lack the sacraments of initiation.

The parish priest at the Catholic Church he goes to can make this contact and get this information clarified. It seems likely he would come in to the Catholic Church like and other Christian, by the Rite of Reception of Baptized Christians into the full Communion of the Catholic Church since he does not come from a valid Orthodox Church, but this is for the tribunal to determine.

No, this simply isn’t true. He comes from a valid Particular Church.

Were OP coming from a valid Orthodox Church then as you say he would make a simple profession of faith and confession in order to be Catholic. And of course Orthodox may receive Eucharist in a Catholic Church (from the Catholic Church’s perspective, not necessarily from the Orthodox Church’s perspective), a question OP asked in the EC section.

I think it is the Assyrian part that is throwing you off. It is no different that any other particular Church of the East with valid apostolic succession and holy orders. The Catholic Church has accepted the validity of its sacraments and allows Chaldean Catholics to receive the Eucharist in the Assyrian Church.

See vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_11111994_assyrian-church_en.html and vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html.

 

[nick_adams]

i know there are im going to talk the the priest this sunday thanks for the answers

 

[Vico]

If you mean the Team RCIA link it doesn’t say no preparation is required before reception. It says there is no Rite involved “All that is required of an Orthodox Christian is a profession of faith…There is no need for the bishop to approve his reception. Your pastor has full authority to receive the person…” The issue being addressed there is about parishes putting Orthodox into classes which prepare them for Rites, such as Reception (Confirmation) which they do not belong in. This unfortunately happens because someone in the RCIA/clergy fails to consult their tribunal for accurate instruction when someone presents him/herself who was baptized by an Orthodox priest.

Anyone, including someone coming from Orthodoxy, who wants to become Catholic would need some instruction so that they are able to make a profession of faith with an appropriate understanding of what the Church teaches this to mean.

If all OP is concerned about is reception of Holy Communion he does not need to be received into the Church. If he is found to have had Initiation (Baptism/Chrismation/Eucharist) in a Church with valid Holy Orders he can present himself for Eucharist in any Catholic Church if he is properly disposed. This may, depending on the Orthodox Church he is found to be part of, excommunicate him from his Orthodox Church. It would not make him Catholic but he doesn’t need to be Catholic to partake of Communion in a Catholic Church.

I don’t think so far anyone here is saying that OP belongs to a Church which is in full communion with the Catholic Church. Right? To his post “i follow the roman catholic church and i am tryin to find out if i am fully in communion with the church” the answer is “You are no fully in communion with the Catholic Church” It seems like he wants to both take communion, which if he has valid confirmation he can do now, and he wants to become Catholic, which would require discussion with a priest and making a confession and profession of faith.

Yes. Also, thank you for the correction. I took a minute to look up the RCIA section and see that it refers to liturgical rite:

1. In the case of Eastern Christians who enter the fullness of Catholic communion, no liturgical rite is required, but simply a profession of Catholic faith, even if such persons are permitted, in virtue of recourse to the Apostolic See, to transfer to the Latin rite. (Orientalium Ecclesiarum 25 and 4)

 

[Peter_J]

Hi Nick and welcome to the forum.

i follow the roman catholic church and i am tryin to find out if i am fully in communion with the church

No, the ACoE and the RCC aren’t in full communion with each other – although they do have very good relations.

 

[Peter_J]

Probably your baptism is valid. However the the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East does not appear to be a valid Orthodox Church.

You’re attacking a strawman. The Assyrian Church of the East never **claimed **to be an Orthodox Church.

If, as it seems, the Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East in not a valid Orthodox Church then your Chrismation there would not be valid

I really can’t believe you would say that.

I was Chrismated (Confirmed) in the RCC which isn’t an Orthodox Church either. So do you think my Chrismation isn’t valid?

 

[5Loaves]

You’re attacking a strawman. The Assyrian Church of the East never **claimed **to be an Orthodox Church.

I really can’t believe you would say that.

Well if all the "if’"s I included in that post about whether the Church involved was a Church with valid Holy Orders (I assume you are aware of the fact there are self created so-called “Catholic”, and “Orthodox” and other Churches which neither the Catholic nor Orthodox recognize as having valid Holy Orders) were not enough, Post #8 responded to Vico’s clarification and moved on from there.

I was Chrismated (Confirmed) in the RCC which isn’t an Orthodox Church either. So do you think my Chrismation isn’t valid?

I don’t get this part at all, sorry.

 

[Alfonsus]

Let us make it clear.
The Eastern Churches, with Holy Order and Sacraments that the Catholic Church accept as valid are:

1. Churches of the Orthodox Communion (the Orthodox Churches).
2. Churches of the Oriental Communion (the Oriental Churches).
3. The Assyrian Church of the East.

So if a person came from one of these Churches, they will be received by profession, and will become a member of the Eastern Catholic Church sui iuris from which tradition they came.

A member of the Assyrian Church of the East who become Catholic will be received as a member of the Caldean Catholic Church, which is the counterpart of the Assyrian Church of the East.

 

[Peter_J]

Let us make it clear.
The Eastern Churches, with Holy Order and Sacraments that the Catholic Church accept as valid are:

1. Churches of the Orthodox Communion (the Orthodox Churches).
2. Churches of the Oriental Communion (the Oriental Churches).
3. The Assyrian Church of the East.

Very true. The Eastern Orthodox don’t have a monopoly on valid sacraments.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Based on recent history between the Chaldean Catholic Church and Assyrian Church of the East (led by Mar Dinkha IV), all the sacraments you have had in that church are valid. Likewise, you do not need to convert to receive the sacraments at a Chaldean Catholic church. You can talk to any Chaldean priest and I doubt they would deny you the Holy Qurbana, Anointing or Confession.

Did this answer your question, or are you asking if you want to become officially a member of the Latin-rite Roman Catholic Church?

I’m Chaldean and our language and liturgy is basically the same, plus many, many Assyrians are members of our parishes, so you are much more than welcome to go to our churches.

Could you please explain what an “Assyrian Chaldean” Catholic parish is?

Alex

 

[Peter_J]

Could you please explain what an “Assyrian Chaldean” Catholic parish is?

Alex

He didn’t say “Assyrian Chaldean” Catholic parish.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Didn’t say anyone did - I’ve just seen this title on some parish churches I’ve driven by.

A blessed Easter week to you sir - I’m off the CAF for good and it was very nice conversing with you!

Over and out,

Alex

 

[Peter_J]

and it was very nice conversing with you!

Thanks and ditto.

 

[5Loaves]

Didn’t say anyone did - I’ve just seen this title on some parish churches I’ve driven by.

When I visited Mart Maryam Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic Church near here several years ago for Mass, as they called it, I was told simply that they had combined two parishes. They are part of the Chaldean Catholic Diocese St. Peter the Apostle, It has appeared that the ministry is to both Assyrians and Chaldeans but that the name isn’t formally combined in terms of eparchy/diocese. Is that any clearer? LOL

 

[chaldobyzantine]

When I visited Mart Maryam Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic Church near here several years ago for Mass, as they called it, I was told simply that they had combined two parishes. They are part of the Chaldean Catholic Diocese St. Peter the Apostle, It has appeared that the ministry is to both Assyrians and Chaldeans but that the name isn’t formally combined in terms of eparchy/diocese. Is that any clearer? LOL

That is almost it. To make things clear for those who do not know, Chaldeans claim to be descendants of those who lived in ancient Chaldea (southern Iraq) and Assyrians claim to descend from those who lived in Assyria (northern Iraq). The Chaldeans were forced to live north due to Islamic invasions, and have lived together with Assyrians for centuries. Just because the Churches are labelled with either title, does not mean the “ethnic” makeup is limited to either Assyrians or Chaldeans. They both are the exact same people with no real ethnic distinction whatsoever between them except for local Syriac accents and traditions.

Both Chaldeans and Assyrians have attended in parishes together, whether in the old country or in the diaspora, even before the whole Mar Bawai Soro debacle. There is much pointless animosity within and between the Chaldean and Assyrian communities, so until we make peace, forget what village our ancestors came from, and settle on one name, we use both labels (with care not to call each other the wrong label)

 

[5Loaves]

That is almost it. To make things clear for those who do not know, Chaldeans claim to be descendants of those who lived in ancient Chaldea (southern Iraq) and Assyrians claim to descend from those who lived in Assyria (northern Iraq). The Chaldeans were forced to live north due to Islamic invasions, and have lived together with Assyrians for centuries. Just because the Churches are labelled with either title, does not mean the “ethnic” makeup is limited to either Assyrians or Chaldeans. They both are the exact same people with no real ethnic distinction whatsoever between them except for local Syriac accents and traditions.

Both Chaldeans and Assyrians have attended in parishes together, whether in the old country or in the diaspora, even before the whole Mar Bawai Soro debacle. There is much pointless animosity within and between the Chaldean and Assyrian communities, so until we make peace, forget what village our ancestors came from, and settle on one name, we use both labels (with care not to call each other the wrong label)

Thank you! I remember that a couple of years ago they established the first seminary outside of Iraq here, in Southern California, the Seminary of Mar Abba the Great. I pray it is flourishing.

 

[dochawk]

The Chaldean Catholic Church and the Latin Catholic Church are BOTH Roman Catholic Churches since both are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, aka the Pope.

ARGHH!!!

that does NOT make them both Roman!

hawk

 

[Kristin234]

i follow the roman catholic church and i am tryin to find out if i am fully in communion with the church

According to the Catholic Church the ACOE’s sacraments are valid. However, I am pretty sure that the ACOE does not believe that the Catholic Church is valid. I doubt you would have any problem going to a Catholic Church but if you were doing it the other way around then you would probably have some problems. (I am sure you have heard the whole Mar Dinkha and Mar Bawai thing going on).

All in all, my friend’s father is a priest in the Assyrian/Chaldean Catholic Church. He said that according to the RCC the ACOE is seen as valid with valid sacraments and you can become a part of the Catholic Church and everything will be seen as valid.

 

[Peter_J]

According to the Catholic Church the ACOE’s sacraments are valid. However, I am pretty sure that the ACOE does not believe that the Catholic Church is valid.

Catholics and ACoE mutually recognize each other’s sacraments.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Is there an Assyrian Church/Rite within Byzantine Orthodoxy?

Alex