Do I Really Have to Account For Anti-Abortion Views That Don't Mean Anything?
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R
Rau
Guest
Who is we? You spoke of rape.
A woman **who has been raped ** can subsequently seek medical treatment that attempts to prevent conception - because that is in the nature of self-defence. If conception has occurred, it is immoral to attack and kill the child.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
- If you’re **making excuses not to vote GOP **because you’ve got to look and feel good inside, think about justifying that before God. Plenty of “Catholics” do that, and if they can’t fool me, they’re obviously at an impossibility to fool God.
- From you post, you’ve got a lot to learn about the American electorate if you think all the GOP is pro-marriage and pro-life and that the Democrats care about poor people and minorities and the environment.
In fact, SSM is legal in a lot of places thanks to young republicans, libertarians and independents. Older, minority democrats in many cases staunchly oppose it, but alas do not run for office.
As an environmental scientist, I can assure you 110% that liberal polices are extraordinary in their environmental destruction. I just recently read a 40 page document where 30 environmental groups are suing Obama’s EPA.
See what happens with the DNC platform if minorities and recent immigrants start voting GOP. Think they’ll risk extinction or irrelevancy at the national level to do the right thing?
- In order to vote, you need to be informed on the issues. It’s common advice for people not vote for a political party just because you like it (this seems to apply here) or voting for someone because they say they are Catholic. Voting for someone who favors policies that euthanize the old, kill the unborn, want SSM or human cloning is no small matter and I could see that being a mortal sin.
- Abortion will not be banned. Long story short the pro-life movement in American is showing pretty clear signs in many cases of not taking it seriously. Like the marriage issue, their strategies have been lacking to say the least. I would say that you need **vote for someone who will limit evil. **
- There is no perfect Catholic candidate out there. A lot of people on here and elsewhere said they would be voting third party or writing in Optimus Prime for president. I haven’t really heard from them since, and I’m guessing that maybe their purist “principles” and points they thought they’d be getting for the afterlife got lost upon a pink slip and/or insurance cancellation notice.
So, you need to consider what I have said. As for your request not to bring up some things, well, listen, don’t be the **sheeple kind of Christian who thinks that every American election cycle is between voting for the poor or the unborn and sickly old. **
It’s that kind of linear-minded thinking that gets a nation to have a 6% approval rating of its legislature while voting them back in with 75-80% of the vote in some cases and expecting miracles of those few who really do look out for we the people…after they get chided because that’s not cool anymore.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Yes, they are wrong and they don’t work as well as people think.
Do you really believe that they never come off during intercourse?
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Rau
Guest
I wonder whether the thread is kept “cleaner” and on-point if we focus on the generic issue, rather than on the particular example of US politics & GOP vs. Democrat - for fear that the political debate will overshadow the moral principles. [Not to mention this forum is global in its participation and US politics is so sad…
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TStokes
Guest
I think they do come off sometimes i never said they dont
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kingston1
Guest
We as Christians believe we should help the poor but the question is how to help the poor? We as Christians believe in equal right as Jesus taught us to love our neighbor and our enemy but the question is how do we do that?
Do we have to help the poor through government or can we as Christians help as we did before the government got wise and cancelled out the Knights with the USO and our Catholic education with public education or our Catholic Hospitals with “healthcare”.
Two Catholics who both believe that we should help the poor, one is a Democrat and one is a Republican. One voted for O-what’s his face and the other voted for the paper cutout candidate what’s his name. Both candidates are wrong, both parties are wrong.
Jesus didn’t come to establish a kingdom for the Jewish people as they thought He would; our kingdom is already doomed, I think of it with misplaced fond memories of a “time gone by”, but I am only remembering what I thought it was - America - not what it is and always will be, nothing. But that goes for all nations, not just ours. Rome, Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, etc. all are gone and someday our nation will be gone too.
So, to answer the OPs question: vote for the lesser of two weevils.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
It’s important to vote for people using your conscience and good faith. That means one doesn’t make excuses to get a check in the mail from the government to live a certain lifestyle or corrupt the market for their own selfish gain.
I really don’t get why some people in the West kid themselves on this.
Also, there’s nothing more dangerous to freedom than people who blindly vote for one party and really have no idea what they are doing and get defensive when they are called out on it.
Frankly, if I am a politician and I know I’ve got your vote, why should I even bother listening to you?
That’s why the democrats are pushing on the social issues----because they know people will still vote for them. Some republicans are looking into that as well.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
You are right. I just wanted to add that to the thread.
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Cojuanco
Guest
This. The sin is voting for the candidate because they support an intrinsic evil (abortion, so-called gay marriage, torture, etc.)
Now before I continue further, in the interests of full disclosure, I am a registered Republican and have worked for a Republican congressman.
Nevertheless, in elections, especially in countries like ours without a good Catholic party, we are to examine our motives of voting for one candidate or another, irrespective of party. We have to look what they stand for, if incumbents what they have done, and what their concrete plans are. We should under no circumstances have our vote spoken for one party or another without doing the research. I once failed to do that, and ended up supporting in a local primary a pro-abortion candidate, and whose only thing in common he had with CST was on the issue of migration. Why? Because my friends in the Republican organization stoked up my partisan ego. And for that, I am sorry (and have since confessed this sin). Don’t do what I did - do your research, ask uncomfortable questions, don’t be dazzled by the party organizations.
And now I guess I’ve pretty shot dead my dreams of elected office, but what the hey.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
I have to thank some of you for helping me understand a trait that has baffled me for years: why Catholics continue to vote for pro-abortion candidates.
It seems as though a false and damaging view of what will help the poor (which in reality harms the poor) trumps all else.
It seems as though a false and damaging view of what will help the poor (which in reality harms the poor) trumps all else.
O
OraLabora
Guest
As an outsider (Canadian) looking at your politics, I’m just completely baffled
.Abortion is not the only moral issue to consider. I agree it’s a serious one (and that battle has been lost in Canada).
But what to make of a Republican party that went to war on entirely false grounds (and which also presumably resulted in the death of innocent people including women and children), that supports a system of capital punishment where it’s been proven that wrongfully convicted persons were put to death, and that supports a health care system where millions can’t afford proper health insurance?
Where is the respect for the dignity of human life in that?
I am truly baffled
I think this is why the Holy Father is saying we need to focus on all the ills of the world, not just abortion and homosexuality (funny I don’t hear the same talk from the Right about adultery, premarital sex, fornication and on-demand divorce… or is it because I’m not listening to the right people?)
I don’t think you can categorically say Democrats = bad because they are pro-abortion, and the Republicans = good because they pay lip service to being anti-abortion. I can’t imagine it’s that simple. Politics, like life, is very messy.
Maybe someone can explain US politics to me so I’ll understand but it sure looks odd from up here. I’m not saying our system is any better; plenty of evil combined with stupidity up here too, but it does seem easier to understand.
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HoneyBea
Guest
I’m not sure what you are so baffled about. Sure there are other issues but those issues are affecting people who have life. I think starting with those people whom we slaughter before they have a chance at lie is a good start.As an outsider (Canadian) looking at your politics, I’m just completely baffled
Abortion is not the only moral issue to consider. I agree it’s a serious one (and that battle has been lost in Canada).
But what to make of a Republican party that went to war on entirely false grounds (and which also presumably resulted in the death of innocent people including women and children), that supports a system of capital punishment where it’s been proven that wrongfully convicted persons were put to death, and that supports a health care system where millions can’t afford proper health insurance?
Where is the respect for the dignity of human life in that?
I am truly baffled
I
I think this is why the Holy Father is saying we need to focus on all the ills of the world, not just abortion and homosexuality (funny I don’t hear the same talk from the Right about adultery, premarital sex, fornication and on-demand divorce… or is it because I’m not listening to the right people?)
I don’t think you can categorically say Democrats = bad because they are pro-abortion, and the Republicans = good because they pay lip service to being anti-abortion. I can’t imagine it’s that simple. Politics, like life, is very messy.
Maybe someone can explain US politics to me so I’ll understand but it sure looks odd from up here. I’m not saying our system is any better; plenty of evil combined with stupidity up here too, but it does seem easier to understand.
You’re baffled that I side with those whom we slaughter and give no voice and vote as opposed to those who are already allowed to live with free will and choices?
Sure you can make it complicated with politics but for me its a simplex matter of life vs death,
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
Well, Catholics are just as susceptible as anyone else to voting against their values for a government paycheck or looking good at the watercooler and being with the in crowd:
“You know he/she is Catholic, which is really, really backwards and all, but meh…he/she votes liberal so…eh…he/she is alright, I guess.”
What a reward, huh! Nothing compared to the Kingdom of Heaven!
In the old days, it was called 30 pieces of silver.
Will my posting on here change their minds?
Not likely.
They’ll just find some other excuse to keep doing what they are doing.
And Americans, especially those in the “homegrown heartland” wonder why radicals are running nearly 2/3 of their federal government.
To paraphrase Ann Coulter:
"So you’re Catholic/social conservative African American/Muslim/Orthodox Jew/IA-WI-MN-ND-MI farmer…
Do you believe in
gay “marriage”--------NO
aboriton?---------------NO
free contraception—NO
forcing mandates on your Church----NO
Who are you voting for then?
The Democrats."
:dts:
O
OraLabora
Guest
Yes I’m baffled. The Catholic Church respects the dignity human life from the moment of conception until natural death. All of us. We were all entrusted with the gift of Life and have the duty to preserve it through all phases of life which is why we should also be concerned by things like stem-cell research, end-of-life issues, just vs. unjust war, affordable health care for all, public health and the list goes on.
Please don’t assume that to mean I’m in favour of abortion. I was myself adopted as an infant in the 1950s and am grateful I wasn’t conceived now under the same conditions my birth mother must have been in during the '50s.
I am saying however that it’s complex and as has been pointed out the Republicans, for whom it seems many pro-lifers vote:
- don’t appear to have affected real change on abortion over the years they held power, at least from my admittedly limited view of US politics;
- thus do attempt to manipulate the abortion issue for purely partisan electoral reasons;
- don’t seem to consistent on life issues in other areas.
It does seem to me that the US has plenty of problems (not the least of which is abortion) that need attention as well.
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HoneyBea
Guest
Ok be baffled I suppose.
You are making an assumption I don’t care about the lives of those given life because my priority goes to those who are denied a choice and chance at life?
That’s your assumption at your own fault not mine.
So be baffled.
Good day.
You are making an assumption I don’t care about the lives of those given life because my priority goes to those who are denied a choice and chance at life?
That’s your assumption at your own fault not mine.
So be baffled.
Good day.
O
OraLabora
Guest
I’m not assuming it of you in particular, but US politics in general.
I just see too many contradictions in the Republican Party platform to make me think they’re any better than the Democrats, overall.
And why is it that politics in the US have become so polarized? Very black or white. That’s also puzzling to me.
I just see too many contradictions in the Republican Party platform to make me think they’re any better than the Democrats, overall.
And why is it that politics in the US have become so polarized? Very black or white. That’s also puzzling to me.
C
Cojuanco
Guest
Abortion and race. That’s why.
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Fae76
Guest
OraLabora, I totally agree.
Here in Sweden, the only possible movement on abortion is that one party wants to lower the limit from 18 to 12 weeks.
Many Catholics think that makes them the only viable choice for the election next year.
They are the right wing white nationalists.
The ones who treat every being who doesn’t look like them like dirt.
Yes, I too, am COMPLETELY baffled.
Here in Sweden, the only possible movement on abortion is that one party wants to lower the limit from 18 to 12 weeks.
Many Catholics think that makes them the only viable choice for the election next year.
They are the right wing white nationalists.
The ones who treat every being who doesn’t look like them like dirt.
Yes, I too, am COMPLETELY baffled.
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