Do I understand Justification correctly?

[awatkins69]

I’ve been trying to study the Scriptures, but “there are some things hard to understand.” Now, please let me know if my understanding of justification is correct. First of all, Catholics do believe in sola gratia and solo Christo. That is, we believe that we are saved only by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. Tell me if I am right on this.

First of all we are given mercy through grace. Because of this grace, we are first justified by faith. We are given this grace to have faith by God, not because of any merits or works of our own, but solely out of God’s condescension and mercy. Absolutely nothing we do of ourselves gives us this grace.

After we are justified by faith this leads to baptism. This gives us sanctifying grace, remission of absolutely all sin and punishment due to sin, and sonship. It basically returns us to the state of Adam before the fall. After baptism, and as believers in the Church, we do good works, and because these works are done under God’s grace, they merit for us even more righteousness. All of this is solely by God’s grace, prevenient in the case of justification by faith, sanctifying in the case of baptism, and actual which allows us to do every good work, yes?

I have a couple of questions. First of all, the Church teaches that one must be baptized to be saved and to wash away original sin and to return us to the grace of Adam before the fall, yes? There is also baptism of desire. But if we are justified by faith, then why do we need to get baptized? Is the initial justification by faith the same as baptism of desire? What good does baptism do if we are already justified? If water baptism is not actually necessary (because baptism of desire is good enough), then isn’t baptism of desire the same as water baptism, thus making water baptism unnecessary?

Also, isn’t the justification after faith, that is, with good works, the same as the word “sanctification”? Because, this justification just makes us grow in righteousness. With all of these, please tell me where I’m wrong, if I am wrong, and why I’m wrong, or if I am missing anything. If you have Bible verses that would be great! Thanks.

 

[Ron_Conte]

I’ve been trying to study the Scriptures, but “there are some things hard to understand.” Now, please let me know if my understanding of justification is correct. First of all, Catholics do believe in sola gratia and solo Christo. That is, we believe that we are saved only by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. Tell me if I am right on this.

Yes, everyone who is saved is saved by the merits of Jesus Christ on the Cross, whether they know it or not. Whoever dies in a state of grace is saved and goes to Heaven (perhaps through Purgatory), and whoever dies not in a state of grace goes to Hell.

First of all we are given mercy through grace. Because of this grace, we are first justified by faith. We are given this grace to have faith by God, not because of any merits or works of our own, but solely out of God’s condescension and mercy. Absolutely nothing we do of ourselves gives us this grace.

Love, faith, and hope, the three theological virtues, are infused virtues only. Everyone who has the state of grace has all three, and this state of grace is only obtained for us fallen human persons through some type of Baptism. There are three types of Baptism: (1) of water, (2) of blood, (3) of desire. We do not have the theological virtue of faith prior to Baptism. Adults can cooperate with grace, to a limited extent, prior to Baptism, and this prepares them to receive sanctifying grace. Infants are given love, faith, hope without need for preparation.

After we are justified by faith this leads to baptism. This gives us sanctifying grace, remission of absolutely all sin and punishment due to sin, and sonship. It basically returns us to the state of Adam before the fall. After baptism, and as believers in the Church, we do good works, and because these works are done under God’s grace, they merit for us even more righteousness. All of this is solely by God’s grace, prevenient in the case of justification by faith, sanctifying in the case of baptism, and actual which allows us to do every good work, yes?

No, we are not justified until we receive some type of Baptism. Sanctifying grace includes the three theological virtues, which are infused only. We are not the same as Adam before the Fall, because we have concupiscence, a tendency toward sin. Initial sanctifying grace, which justifies us, is prevenient and unmerited. The initial grace moving us to do good works is also prevenient. Cooperation with subsequent grace merits an increase in grace, so some grace is merited. Some good acts, in the sense of acts that are morally permissible, can be done without grace, but all virtuous acts and all acts that merit reward are done with grace.

I have a couple of questions. First of all, the Church teaches that one must be baptized to be saved and to wash away original sin and to return us to the grace of Adam before the fall, yes? There is also baptism of desire. But if we are justified by faith, then why do we need to get baptized? Is the initial justification by faith the same as baptism of desire? What good does baptism do if we are already justified? If water baptism is not actually necessary (because baptism of desire is good enough), then isn’t baptism of desire the same as water baptism, thus making water baptism unnecessary?

We are not justified by faith prior to Baptism. Baptism gives us love, faith, hope, which can only be obtained by some type of Baptism. We then live lives of love, faith, hope, incooperation with grace, and in this way we are coworkers with Christ in our own salvation. Sanctifying grace is justifying grace. We are not justified prior to sanctifying grace. The formal Sacrament of Baptism (water and words) is important, even though Baptism is possible by desire, because only with the formal Sacrament can we be certain that we have been baptized. Also, it is easier to obtain sanctifying grace by Baptism of water than by desire.

Also, isn’t the justification after faith, that is, with good works, the same as the word “sanctification”? Because, this justification just makes us grow in righteousness. With all of these, please tell me where I’m wrong, if I am wrong, and why I’m wrong, or if I am missing anything. If you have Bible verses that would be great! Thanks.

We are not justified by works, but by the grace of Christ giving us love, faith, hope. Our good works participate in our salvation, but the first cause of our salvation is Christ on the Cross and Him alone; we do not cooperate in our initial justification.

 

[Matt_CL]

Hello Ron, thanks for your very enlightening answer to this posted question. I was alittle confused however by your last paragraph-- … that “we do not cooperate in our initial justification.” I understand what you are saying, that the initial grace from God is of course unmerited, but I had always thought there was some cooperation involved on man’s part in accepting or rejecting it in light of the following from the CCC:

**CCC 1993 "Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight"**

---

Mary, Mother of Mercy, Mother of Grace shield us from the enemy and receive us at the hour of our death". Amen

 

[fhansen]

From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked Luke12:48.

Baptism is a response to the grace of God-it’s the right thing to do because Christ instituted it. As we progress in our faith, what we do counts. Looked at in a general sense, in order to be justified, one must become just. So, yes, sanctification is an integral part of our justification, something the reformers denied.

But doesn’t the Catholic position make sense? God’s always wanted man to be just, meaning to be the being He created him to be. Man fell, and now God picks him up and says, OK, you’ve become unjust by your own actions, you cannot become just again without my help because the greatest injustice committed was to separate yourself from Me, and so you must come to believe in Me again, to see your need for me, having experienced life apart as the Prodigal Son did, and willingly reverse the decision made by Adam & Eve, within yourself. This is all about action-what we do.

An imputed righteousness is no righteousness at all. God wants us righteous (Matt 5:20), perfect as the Father is perfect (Matt 5:48), holy as He is holy (1Pet 1:15-16). And our righteousness/perfection/holiness is to fulfill the commandments, and the commandments are fulfilled when we come to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. (Luke 10:27)

** “…Love is the fulfillment of the Law.” Rom13:10
**
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love. St. John of the Cross
**
Love, and do what you like**. Saint Augustine
**
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.** Gal 5:6

Can we really argue with a command to love?

 

[awatkins69]

So you’re saying that before Baptism we have no faith? This is kind of hard to understand. Why would somebody without any faith receive Baptism? You’re saying everyone, before they receive Baptism, does not have any belief in the merits and promises of Christ? Wouldn’t someone first need to accept and believe the promises of Christ to receive Baptism? And if Baptism is absolutely necessary, how were the people of the Old Testament saved? How is a person who is outside of the Church saved, even if they have ignorance? Or the thief on the cross next to Christ?

I thought that the initial grace leads to justification by faith, which leads to repentance, which leads to baptism. Not grace leads to baptism (even though we had no faith in baptism) which leads to faith, then justification.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Nita]

So you’re saying that before Baptism we have no faith? This is kind of hard to understand. Why would somebody without any faith receive Baptism? You’re saying everyone, before they receive Baptism, does not have any belief in the merits and promises of Christ? Wouldn’t someone first need to accept and believe the promises of Christ to receive Baptism?

I don’t think anyone was saying that before Baptism one cannot have faith. (Of course, a newborn baby doesn’t. But his parents and godparents do.)

And if Baptism is absolutely necessary, how were the people of the Old Testament saved? How is a person who is outside of the Church saved, even if they have ignorance? Or the thief on the cross next to Christ?

Baptism is the ordinary means Jesus instituted to communicate the supernatural life of grace into our souls. Please note, it is the ordinary means, but not necessarily the only means God can use.
The Catechism states it thus:
CCC #1257 (Last sentence in the paragraph) …God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3L.HTM

I thought that the initial grace leads to justification by faith, which leads to repentance, which leads to baptism. Not grace leads to baptism (even though we had no faith in baptism) which leads to faith, then justification.

I’m not sure what you mean by “initial grace”. God sends us various graces to lead us to seek Him – (eg. sending certain people into our lives; helping us understand His words; …) They are called “actual graces” – but they are not the grace that saves/justifies us. That grace is referred to in Catholic theology as “sanctifying grace”.
CCC #1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification: (Then, 2 Cor 5:17-18 is quoted.)

CCC #2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.

CCC #2001 Thepreparation of man for the recception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. …
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6Z.HTM

 

[fhansen]

So you’re saying that before Baptism we have no faith? This is kind of hard to understand. Why would somebody without any faith receive Baptism? You’re saying everyone, before they receive Baptism, does not have any belief in the merits and promises of Christ? Wouldn’t someone first need to accept and believe the promises of Christ to receive Baptism? And if Baptism is absolutely necessary, how were the people of the Old Testament saved? How is a person who is outside of the Church saved, even if they have ignorance? Or the thief on the cross next to Christ?

I thought that the initial grace leads to justification by faith, which leads to repentance, which leads to baptism. Not grace leads to baptism (even though we had no faith in baptism) which leads to faith, then justification.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Everything comes by grace. For an adult, grace leads to faith which should lead to Baptism, providing they’re not ignorant of Christs command concerning this.

 

[awatkins69]

Everything comes by grace. For an adult, grace leads to faith which should lead to Baptism, providing they’re not ignorant of Christs command concerning this.

Yes. But see, if we are already justified by faith, than what justification does Baptism provide? I always thought the understanding was that Baptism produces justification, because it creates an infusion of sanctifying grace in our soul and the remission of all sins. This is essentially what it means to be justified, at least that’s what I thought. And if only Baptism infuses this grace and remits all sin, in what sense are we justified by faith? And in what sense were the patriarchs justified?

 

[fhansen]

Yes. But see, if we are already justified by faith, than what justification does Baptism provide? I always thought the understanding was that Baptism produces justification, because it creates an infusion of sanctifying grace in our soul and the remission of all sins. This is essentially what it means to be justified, at least that’s what I thought. And if only Baptism infuses this grace and remits all sin, in what sense are we justified by faith? And in what sense were the patriarchs justified?

We’re not justified by faith alone. We’re justified by cooperating with God grace, by which He’s working out a plan for our salvation. If we’re aware of Jesus’ injunction to be baptized and we don’t do it, then we’re disobeying Him. That’s why I quoted Luke 12:48 God is merciful and patient beyond our ability to fathom and He can override the need for sacraments or anything else He’s commanded but that doesn’t mean we should reject the road He’s laid out when we see it-because it provides the straightest path to Him.

Faith is only the beginning. Baptism is a next step as an expression of that faith. In it, initial justification is conferred. But that simply puts us back in the same state as Adam & Eve and in no way prevents us from re-committing an original sin for ourselves. In any case, singly or together faith and baptism are sufficient if they’re the only steps we have the opportunity to take in this life. But they’re not enough, on they’re own, if we have more time and opportunity as the parable of the talents, for example, makes clear. As far as the patriarchs were concerned, they were obviously not under the New Covenant.

 

[awatkins69]

I did not say we are justified by faith alone. I’m just saying we are justified by faith. If we were already justified by faith, then why do we need the justification baptism produces? If we’re just doing it because God says so, it becomes only a work, and does not confer grace in itself. We may merit from doing so, but it does not effect grace “ex opere operato”.

If the patriarchs could not receive Baptism, then they could not receive sanctifying grace. If you say it’s just because of the New vs Old covenant, then that doesn’t help. It means that either 1) the Old covenant had a form of baptism to give sanctifying grace or 2) the New covenant baptism is analogous to circumcision and is, in a sense, just an empty ritual.

Look. The Bible is very clear that we are justified by faith and works. It also says very clearly we need to be baptized for the remission of sins. So how do these two mix? Here’s my dilemma:

We must first define justification. Justification is the infusion of righteousness in the soul, being clean from sin, and God recognizing this. The Bible says clearly we are justified by faith (although it nowhere says “alone”). So if we are justified by faith, that means by faith we are infused with righteousness in the soul, cleansed from sin, and God recognizes this. But the Church teaches that only Baptism does this. This is instantaneous, either in Baptism or in the Sacrament of Confession. However, the Church also teaches that faith justifies. This is why it is hard for me to understand.

 

[fhansen]

I did not say we are justified by faith alone. I’m just saying we are justified by faith. If we were already justified by faith, then why do we need the justification baptism produces? If we’re just doing it because God says so, it becomes only a work, and does not confer grace in itself. We may merit from doing so, but it does not effect grace “ex opere operato”.

If the patriarchs could not receive Baptism, then they could not receive sanctifying grace. If you say it’s just because of the New vs Old covenant, then that doesn’t help. It means that either 1) the Old covenant had a form of baptism to give sanctifying grace or 2) the New covenant baptism is analogous to circumcision and is, in a sense, just an empty ritual.

Look. The Bible is very clear that we are justified by faith and works. It also says we need to be baptized for the remission of sins.

But we must define justification. Justification is the infusion of righteousness in the soul, being clean from sin, and God recognizing this. The Bible says clearly we are justified by faith (although it doesn’t say "alone). So if we are justified by faith, that means by faith we are infused with righteousness in the soul, cleansed from sin, and God recognizes this. But the Church teaches that only Baptism does this. However, the Church also teaches that faith justifies. This is why it is hard for me to understand.

My response would be that, in Catholicism, conversion/justification is a process whereby we’re made into the beings God desires and desired from the beginning. That’s what He’s after in man and that’s who He wants to spend eternity with. If we’re at lower levels of conversion when we die, if we’ve only been allowed to take baby steps, then He presumably works with that. But to be justified to the point of being ready for the Beatific Vision, I don’t think either faith or Baptism is sufficient-Baptism maybe-certainly not “faith alone”, or however we want to phrase it. I’ve not seen where the Church teaches that faith is an ordinary means of justification without other dispositions being present. The Council of Trent’s 6th session addresses justification and is worth reading if you haven’t already but I assume you have.

Also, from the CCC:
2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

Personally, I’d define the justified man as one who loves God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and his neighbor as himself, because in this, justice is made genuine in him. Such a man’s faith is implied by his love and such would certainly desire and receive baptism if possible.

 

[awatkins69]

I think that’s the problem. We are working with different definitions of justification. I believe, according to the Church, that justification are these three things.

1)God’s acknowledging and declaring the person righteous (because he *is *righteous).
2)Remission of all sins.
3)God infusing righteousness in our soul (sanctifying grace, the state before the fall, sonship, etc). Not just imputing, for “nothing unclean shall enter”.

I think this is what the Church says. Paragraph 1987 of the CCC:

“The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us (like #1), that is, to cleanse us from our sins (#2) and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God (#3) through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism”

If this is the definition of justification, and we are justified by faith, then have we not already received the same effects as Baptism? You cannot separate justification of faith and works in general. But you can separate an initial justification by faith and the later Baptism. It would seem that Baptism is just superfluous. This is what I am trying to understand, because the Bible clearly says we are justified by faith, but it also shows clearly the necessity of Baptism.

 

[fhansen]

I think that’s the problem. We are working with different definitions of justification. I believe, according to the Church, that justification are these three things.

1)God’s acknowledging and declaring the person righteous (because he *is *righteous).
2)Remission of all sins.
3)God infusing righteousness in our soul (sanctifying grace, the state before the fall, sonship, etc). Not just imputing, for “nothing unclean shall enter”.

I think this is what the Church says. Paragraph 1987 of the CCC:

“The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us (like #1), that is, to cleanse us from our sins (#2) and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God (#3) through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism”

If this is the definition of justification, and we are justified by faith, then have we not already received the same effects as Baptism? You cannot separate justification of faith and works in general. But you can separate an initial justification by faith and the later Baptism. It would seem that Baptism is just superfluous. This is what I am trying to understand, because the Bible clearly says we are justified by faith, but it also shows clearly the necessity of Baptism.

I think if we think of justification in linear fashion, more expected of us as we mature, God always drawing us to a higher level, perfection as the goal, with our wills always involved along the way, until our wills are perfected and our love complete, wanting nothing more than God, Himself-with purgatory as part of the perfecting process if need be. Then we have a fuller understanding of justification.

In any case I agree it can be confusing. But the onus must remain on us to become more righteous than we are in order to be saved or else we devolve into Reformed “imputed righteousness” thinking. Your list left out obedience to the commandments, which the Church includes.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Hello Ron, thanks for your very enlightening answer to this posted question. I was alittle confused however by your last paragraph-- … that “we do not cooperate in our initial justification.” I understand what you are saying, that the initial grace from God is of course unmerited, but I had always thought there was some cooperation involved on man’s part in accepting or rejecting it in light of the following from the CCC:

There are two types of grace, actual grace, by which we do good, and sanctifying grace (i.e. the grace of justification), by which we are good. In each type of grace, there is both prevenient grace, in which God acts alone (also called operating grace), and subsequent grace, in which we cooperate with the grace of God by our own free will.

Even when an adult prepares for adult Baptism by cooperating with actual grace, the sanctifying grace received at Baptism is prevenient. He does not cooperate with the initial justification itself, but he cooperates subsequently. For the initial justification is a free gift by the act of God alone.

 

[awatkins69]

There are two types of grace, actual grace, by which we do good, and sanctifying grace (i.e. the grace of justification), by which we are good. In each type of grace, there is both prevenient grace, in which God acts alone (also called operating grace), and subsequent grace, in which we cooperate with the grace of God by our own free will.

Even when an adult prepares for adult Baptism by cooperating with actual grace, the sanctifying grace received at Baptism is prevenient. He does not cooperate with the initial justification itself, but he cooperates subsequently. For the initial justification is a free gift by the act of God alone.

This is my question. You say that sanctifying grace is the grace of justification.

Faith gives justification. Sanctifying grace is the grace of justification. Therefore, Faith gives sanctifying grace.

But I thought that Baptism does this? Faith produces the same effect as Baptism?

 

[fhansen]

Faith gives justification.

But faith alone does not justify.

 

[Ron_Conte]

This is my question. You say that sanctifying grace is the grace of justification.

Faith gives justification. Sanctifying grace is the grace of justification. Therefore, Faith gives sanctifying grace.

But I thought that Baptism does this? Faith produces the same effect as Baptism?

You have misunderstood the relationship between faith and justification.

Justification is not the result of a person choosing to have faith. The first cause of justification is the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. His merciful sacrifice is unmerited by us. All Baptism is effective because of that sacrifice on the Cross. In Baptism, we die with Christ.

We cannot have faith or choose to believe without prevenient grace. So God first gives us grace to believe, apart from any cooperation on our part. Subsequently, we cooperate with grace by continuing to believe.

The Council of Trent taught, in the Decree on Justification: “the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified”

No fallen human person is justified prior to Baptism. Our justification is caused by Baptism, which is the Sacrament of faith, by which we are given love, faith, and hope.

Any faith we have prior to Baptism is a result of cooperation with actual grace, and leads us to Baptism, but that faith does not merit justification. Jesus merited our justification. But no one has the infused theological virtue of faith prior to Baptism, although some persons might receive a Baptism of desire prior to their formal Baptism.

 

[awatkins69]

So when we say we are justified by faith, we mean that we are justified by the faith infused in us at Baptism? That is, we are not justified by faith prior to Baptism? But isn’t St. Paul talking to people who were not yet baptized in Romans? In what sense were they justified? Baptism of desire? Does that mean someone who has the Baptism of desire is justified as soon as they desire Baptism, and thus receive the same effects of Baptism prior to Baptism? Thanks.

 

[fhansen]

So when we say we are justified by faith, we mean that we are justified by the faith infused in us at Baptism? That is, we are not justified by faith prior to Baptism? But isn’t St. Paul talking to people who were not yet baptized in Romans? In what sense were they justified? Baptism of desire? Does that mean someone who has the Baptism of desire is justified as soon as they desire Baptism, and thus receive the same effects of Baptism prior to Baptism? Thanks.

I still say you have to define justification. What does it mean?-it means to actually be just.

Justice demands faith, in that God deserves to be believed in. But it only begins there. We must also put our hope in Him-because even demons believe, i.e. have faith that God exists- then ultimately we must love Him.

Prior to or during all this we must come to detest sin and be contrite for it. As we change (since justification is about receiving a new heart), and grow in love for God and neighbor, we begin to express that love as God calls it forth. All of this is part of our justification beginning with faith, leading to Baptism and continuing on until we’re molded into the beings the Potter desires.

The idea of faith alone justifying is a joke. Justification is a life long process of answering Gods call and walking with Him.

 

[Ron_Conte]

So when we say we are justified by faith, we mean that we are justified by the faith infused in us at Baptism? That is, we are not justified by faith prior to Baptism? But isn’t St. Paul talking to people who were not yet baptized in Romans? In what sense were they justified? Baptism of desire? Does that mean someone who has the Baptism of desire is justified as soon as they desire Baptism, and thus receive the same effects of Baptism prior to Baptism? Thanks.

The saying that we are justified by faith is true. For an infant, the gift of Baptism gives love, faith, and hope, and as the person grows up, and cooperates with grace, living a life of love, faith, hope, salvation is achieved. For an adult, cooperation with actual grace results in some acts of faith, but the theological infused virtue of faith is only given at Baptism. These acts of faith in cooperation with grace lead to the virtue of faith as a gift at Baptism.

It is possible for an adult to receive a Baptism of desire as he is being led by grace toward formal Baptism. He is justified at his Baptism of desire, but since no one can be certain whether or not he has received a Baptism of desire, the formal Baptism is still given. If an adult has received a Baptism of desire, prior to his formal Baptism, he has received love, faith, hope, and sanctifying grace. It is not entirely clear whether those who receive a formal Baptism have something more than those who receive a Baptism of desire, except that those with the formal Baptism can know that they have been baptized.

Paul is not only speaking of Baptism of desire, but of all Baptism. For even an infant who is baptized, later, after he grows up, lives according to the infused virtues of love, faith, hope, and the other virtues, in order to reach salvation.