Do LDS openly acknowledge that their religion teaches the belief of multiple gods?

[wmscott]

Going to an anti-Mormon site and finding a list of supposedly “Mormon” beliefs and copy and paste them here is not such a smart thing to do. If I wanted to do that with the Catholic Church, I could do better. A quick search enables me to find many. Here is one. Here is another. And here is still another. Would you like me to copy and paste them here so you can tell me which ones are true and which ones are not?

I think that if you read my post carefully you will notice that I stated that I did not know what was true and what was false, I know almost nothing of Mormonism and posted (cut & pasted) the claim’s from a “Catholic” site and provided the link. I was not trying to be dishonest, I just do not know and wanted an LDS perspective. All I got was a tirade of junk for asking the question about claims (not mine) that are posted. Except for what dianaiad posted. she took the time to answer all of the questions and I appreciate the feedback. If I do not know what is true or false regarding the info is out there, I ask about them because they seem foreign to me, so tell me how else am I to figure out things. I will tell you, put the info here as I found it and ask what is truth and what is a falsehood. There was no malice or deceit, I just wanted to know if they were true or false. dianaiad is the only one who did not take offense, and answered honestly, and if I do not agree with LDS philosophy so be it. I am not going to just not ask about the claims. would you rather is asked a Lutheran or Baptist about them or a LDS?

 

[wmscott]

Actually…no. God the Father is God the Father, the First Member of the God-head. His Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghosts are the two other Members of the Godhead. They are one in intent and purpose, and a certain quality of being “God” that nobody else has. Catholics believe that this quality is a ‘substance’ that in effect makes them One even as they are completely different Personages, each separate. We believe that they are indeed separate, to a greater extent than they do–or perhaps we are talking semantics. I dunno.

Anyway, we do believe that God the Father is God the Father, Creater of all things through His Son, Jesus Christ.

No. We believe that God created the entire universe. “Worlds with out number,” even. Everything we see, or can see, in earth or sky, to the furthest reaches of everything.

Well, yeah. Sorta. Though most of us believe that it’s more like God used to be someone like Jesus.

Not exactly. See answer to # 2

Yes, we have that saying. And no, that is NOT polytheism, strictly. Henotheism, perhaps. Actually, we are closer to monotheism than most Christians are, because although trinitarian Christians worship, and pray to, all the members of the Trinity, we pray to only one of them; God the Father, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Yep, they are spiritual brothers…and y’know, the first time I was accused of believing this, my first response was…yeah, so? I could NOT understand the sort of horrified angst that went along with that. I mean…so what? ALL of us are the children of God, we believe; angels, men, the whole kit and caboodle. So in that sense we are all spiritual brethren. It’s not as if we believe that Jesus and Lucifer have a special relationship that they don’t share with the rest of us, after all. So in that sense, Lucifer is Jesus’ brother. But then in that sense so are you, and I am His sister. Lucifer screwed up. Some of God’s other children have ALSO royally screwed up.

In another sense, though, Jesus HAS no brothers and sisters. He is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. In that sense, then, He has no full blooded brothers and sisters. Especially not Lucifer, whom we believe will never have a mortal body, much less one that is tied in any familial way to the Christ.

Uh…no. None of the above is accurate. Sorry. We most definately believe in the virgin birth.
I’ve never heard of the “arranging for one of His wives to be born as Mary.” (grin) I have to admit, every so often one of you pulls a new one. Congratulations, you win this week’s prize.

Yep. So far that’s what, one correct thing out of 8, so far? You might want to relate this belief to # 6

If you are referring to that ‘war in heaven,’ well, yeah…though I think that was more about choosing and voting, not fighting and killing.

See the response to #2…but the part about ‘obeying heavenly laws’ is about right.

uh, HUH?

Thanks dianaiad for your responses I do appreciate you answering the questions here without getting all screwed up about them, whether they be true or false.I just did not know and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut form a LDS. thanks again

 

[dianaiad]

Substance is what something is. If I cut a tree down and cut it into a thing with three legs, and a flat surface, the substance of the tree is now the substance of a stool. Even though they would taste the same if I tried to eat either one. Too many people think of substance as the material, but in Catholic theology lingo it is not so. Essence and substance are almost interchangeable.

A being is anything that is; brick, sheep, human, God.

A person is an individual substance of a rational nature.

Nature is very similar to substance but thought of more as a potential action.

A sheep is no persons in one being
A human is one person in one being
God is three persons in one being. God is one divine nature/substance/being.

How is what I said different?

(well, except for the inadvertant use, perhaps, of the word ‘being’ for the word ‘person…’ I knew what I meant.)

 

[dianaiad]

I think that if you read my post carefully you will notice that I stated that I did not know what was true and what was false, I know almost nothing of Mormonism and posted (cut & pasted) the claim’s from a “Catholic” site and provided the link. I was not trying to be dishonest, I just do not know and wanted an LDS perspective. All I got was a tirade of junk for asking the question about claims (not mine) that are posted. Except for what dianaiad posted. she took the time to answer all of the questions and I appreciate the feedback. If I do not know what is true or false regarding the info is out there, I ask about them because they seem foreign to me, so tell me how else am I to figure out things. I will tell you, put the info here as I found it and ask what is truth and what is a falsehood. There was no malice or deceit, I just wanted to know if they were true or false. dianaiad is the only one who did not take offense, and answered honestly, and if I do not agree with LDS philosophy so be it. I am not going to just not ask about the claims. would you rather is asked a Lutheran or Baptist about them or a LDS?

Here’s the problem, wmscott: the list you used is SO over-the-top anti that you will have to excuse the reaction; mostly we are used to, when people post lists that totally W.R.O.N.G, is that the person posting it is not merely ignorant of our faith, but is actively out to discredit, defeat and disparage it. Knee jerk reactions are normal. In fact, the ONLY reason I answered you as I did is because I read the 'I know nothing about the church" disclaimer and gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Well, that, and I didn’t want to let a list that weird get by without comment.

But you go ahead and keep asking questions…but if you post a list like that again, you need to put up a more visible disclaimer.

 

[dianaiad]

Thanks dianaiad for your responses I do appreciate you answering the questions here without getting all screwed up about them, whether they be true or false.I just did not know and wanted some (name removed by moderator)ut form a LDS. thanks again

You are quite welcome…any time.

 

[PaulDupre]

Dianaiad:

And yes, we do ACKNOWLEDGE that there may be other gods…but if there are, they have their own universes and we neither know who, or how many there are, but we have absolutely no dealings with them. Therefore they are not important to our salvations, or even to our doctrines–IF they exist.

Mormons really don’t get it. You see, Christians believe that no matter how many universes there are, or how many dimensions of reality there are, there is only One God who created them all and rules them all. He is infinite, and so cannot be the god of only part of creation. There can only be one supreme being; if there are other gods, then none of them is supreme.

They really don’t get it. Their god is very small. Their god is not God.

 

[dianaiad]

Mormons really don’t get it. You see, Christians believe that no matter how many universes there are, or how many dimensions of reality there are, there is only One God who created them all and rules them all. He is infinite, and so cannot be the god of only part of creation. There can only be one supreme being; if there are other gods, then none of them is supreme.

They really don’t get it. Their god is very small. Their god is not God.

The creator of the entire universe (everything that is) is 'small?"

 

[Stephen168]

How is what I said different?

(well, except for the inadvertant use, perhaps, of the word ‘being’ for the word ‘person…’ I knew what I meant.)

I know, except possibly for the inadvertent, unintentional, maybe accidental use of the word being. Of course, I think perhaps, the unconscious probably maybe the wrong definition of the word substance. You think maybe now, after some schooling, perhaps you probably might know what you meant.

I think you should stop trying to explain Catholic beliefs to Catholics. It just makes you look bad.

 

[ParkerD]

Substance is what something is. If I cut a tree down and cut it into a thing with three legs, and a flat surface, the substance of the tree is now the substance of a stool. Even though they would taste the same if I tried to eat either one. Too many people think of substance as the material, but in Catholic theology lingo it is not so. Essence and substance are almost interchangeable.

A being is anything that is; brick, sheep, human, God.

A person is an individual substance of a rational nature.

Nature is very similar to substance but thought of more as a potential action.

A sheep is no persons in one being
A human is one person in one being
God is three persons in one being. God is one divine nature/substance/being.

Stephen or other Catholics,

I live in a house made with bricks on the outside. Bricks are “beings”? Is the outside of my house made with one “being”, or many "beings’?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Mormons really don’t get it. You see, Christians believe that no matter how many universes there are, or how many dimensions of reality there are, there is only One God who created them all and rules them all. He is infinite, and so cannot be the god of only part of creation. There can only be one supreme being; if there are other gods, then none of them is supreme.

They really don’t get it. Their god is very small. Their god is not God.

Well maybe big but still, prosaic.

 

[why_me]

I totally agree. A very common denominator is study, comparing teachings, and questioning. These aren’t really encouraged within the LDS fait, and when I say not encouraged they are not discouraged either, but the Mormon leadership would rather you “Pray” on the issue, or they would suggest you have an unresolved transgression which is holding you back so to speak.

Well, this is not exactly true. Mormons are encouraged to study the bible and the other scripture that they have. And they certainly attend classes on Sunday where scripture is dissected and discussed. In terms of mulitple gods, well it says it here in the Bible dictionary that is a part of their King James Version:

scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/g/43

BIBLE DICTIONARY
God
The supreme Governor of the universe and the Father of mankind. We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without flesh and bone (D&C 130: 22-23).
When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are his children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as LORD (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. All mankind are his brethren and sisters, he being the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Many of the things that the scripture says were done “by God” were actually done by the LORD (Jesus). Thus the scripture says that “God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1: 1), but we know that it was actually the LORD (Jesus) who was the creator (John 1: 3, 10), or as Paul said, God created all things by Christ Jesus (Eph. 3: 9). The Holy Ghost is also a God and is variously called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc.
Although God created all things and is the ruler of the universe, being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent (through his Spirit), mankind has a special relationship to him that differentiates man from all other created things: man is literally God’s offspring, made in his image, whereas all other things are but the work of his hands (cf. Acts 17: 28-29).
The God of the scriptures is a holy being. Man is commanded to be holy because God is holy (Lev. 11: 44-45; Lev. 19: 2). God can be known only by revelation. He must be revealed, or remain forever unknown (cf. Mosiah 4: 9). God first revealed himself to Adam (Moses 5; 6) and has repeatedly made himself known by revelation to chosen patriarchs and prophets since that time. The present translation of John 1: 18 and 1 Jn. 4: 12 is misleading, for these say that no man has ever seen God. However, the scriptures state that there have been many who have seen him. The JST corrects these items to show that no sinful man has ever seen God, and also that Jesus Christ is the only Way to God. God the Father and his Son have been manifested by voice, sight, or otherwise at various times, as at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3: 16-17); the Transfiguration (Matt. 17: 1-8); to Stephen (Acts 7: 55-56); and to the Nephites (3 Ne. 11: 7). The Father and the Son personally visited Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove, in the spring of 1820, near Manchester, New York, in the opening of the dispensation of the fulness of times (JS-H 1: 11-20).
Latter-day revelation confirms the biblical account of God as the literal father of the human family; as a being who is concerned for the welfare of mankind, and a Personage who hears and answers prayers

As we can see, it discusses the nature of plurality of gods as it claims that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all gods. Nothing is hidden. Are you sure you read your lds scriptures?

 

[why_me]

1 John

7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. 8 Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this way the love of God was revealed to us: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might have life through him. 10 In this is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as expiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also must love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us. 13 This is how we know that we remain in him and he in us, that he has given us of his Spirit. 14 Moreover, we have seen and testify that the Father sent his Son as savior of the world. 15 Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him and he in God. 16 We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him. 17 In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgment because as he is, so are we in this world.

Have you shown love for the mormons that surrond you in Salt Lake? I would not get that impression from your past posts. It is one thing to quote scripture, it is quite another to put it into action. And here is where we come to the verses you quoted. To say that god is love is quite meaningless. It actually means nothing unless He puts the word love into action. And likewise for ourselves. Love is an action word. And so, god is active love.

 

[benidict]

Have you shown love for the mormons that surrond you in Salt Lake? I would not get that impression from your past posts. It is one thing to quote scripture, it is quite another to put it into action. And here is where we come to the verses you quoted. To say that god is love is quite meaningless. It actually means nothing unless He puts the word love into action. And likewise for ourselves. Love is an action word. And so, god is active love.

how can you ask rebbeca that why me, when all the harshness, crass, and and instigating statements keep coming out of YOUR fingertips? i do really really enjoy our little chats why me. i really do. you are a fine source of entertainment for me, after a day of busting my back under a hot hawaiian sun. no joke, you make my day sometimes.

 

[why_me]

how can you ask rebbeca that why me, when all the harshness, crass, and and instigating statements keep coming out of YOUR fingertips? i do really really enjoy our little chats why me. i really do. you are a fine source of entertainment for me, after a day of busting my back under a hot hawaiian sun. no joke, you make my day sometimes.

Give me an example? I have seen no harshness from my part. Can you show me where I have been harsh to someone? Now of course, responding to antimormons is not harsh. It is only defending the religious faith of my daughters.

Now to the credit of Catholic Answers she was put on the suspended list for awhile. She has become nicer these days because of it. I see hope in her.

 

[why_me]

i do really really enjoy our little chats why me. i really do. you are a fine source of entertainment for me, after a day of busting my back under a hot hawaiian sun. no joke, you make my day sometimes.

I envy you. I would love to feel the hot sun on my back. But instead, I have just the opposite. Enjoy the pineapples and Don Ho music!

 

[why_me]

Now that I have posted the bible dictionary (above) that explains the mulitple of gods and that it proclaims it openly since it is in the lds KJV bible dictionary which is inlcuded in all their bibles, we can now say that the lds church is not hiding that doctrine. Right?

 

[Jordan_Francis]

I would say, the LDS are henotheists. (believe mulptiple deities exist but only worship one). They deny that the Three Persons are of a homoousia- a single substance. I have had extensive conversations with a very kind Mormon over this- she can not admit to there being a unity of substance among the Three Persons, only a complete unity of will. Philosophically speaking, this means there are three divine substances, ergo, three gods.

 

[estesbob]

Stephen or other Catholics,

I live in a house made with bricks on the outside. Bricks are “beings”? Is the outside of my house made with one “being”, or many "beings’?

If I take one of your bricks and put it in the wall of my house is your house and my house one in the same?

 

[wmscott]

Here’s the problem, wmscott: the list you used is SO over-the-top anti that you will have to excuse the reaction; mostly we are used to, when people post lists that totally W.R.O.N.G, is that the person posting it is not merely ignorant of our faith, but is actively out to discredit, defeat and disparage it. Knee jerk reactions are normal. In fact, the ONLY reason I answered you as I did is because I read the 'I know nothing about the church" disclaimer and gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Well, that, and I didn’t want to let a list that weird get by without comment.

But you go ahead and keep asking questions…but if you post a list like that again, you need to put up a more visible disclaimer.

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I can understand knee jerk reactions, I have been guilty of that in the past. But I do want to keep asking a few questions, the next few questions was taken from a site of an ex Mormon (link). He or She talks about “The fourteen fundamental articles or beliefs of Mormons”. The questions I have are concerning articles 1, 3, & 6. This may or may not be an anti-Mormon site, I do not know. So with regards to 1, 3, & 6 what Scriptural basis is there for these three articles. Since I am a Catholic please use a standard Bible, not the Book of Mormon. I ask this because I would like to know if these articles can be reconciled with the Bible or not.

AS A DISCLAIMER THE QUESTIONS AND LINKS MAY OR MAY NOT BE ANTI MORMON. I DO NOT KNOW BUT WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MORMONS BELIEVE REGARDING THE SUBJECTS OF THE CLAIMS.

 

[ParkerD]

The questions I have are concerning articles 1, 3, & 6. This may or may not be an anti-Mormon site, I do not know. So with regards to 1, 3, & 6 what Scriptural basis is there for these three articles. Since I am a Catholic please use a standard Bible, not the Book of Mormon. I ask this because I would like to know if these articles can be reconciled with the Bible or not.

I DO NOT KNOW BUT WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MORMONS BELIEVE REGARDING THE SUBJECTS OF THE CLAIMS.***

WMScott,
I assume Dianaiad is busy this morning, but I noticed your question and suppose it would be OK with you if I respond, although I think she has already discussed each of those topics many times.

First off, if anyone ever reads words that say “we believe such and such” after saying, “I am an ex-Mormon,” then you can rest assured that they are misrepresenting beliefs. It is a given. Why would they write “we believe” if they themselves don’t “believe”? It is to pull the wool over the eyes of the people who are readers. To trust such a person is incredibly naive.

1–God the Father lived a perfect life before He was resurrected just like Jesus Christ lived a perfect life before He was resurrected. Both of Them were resurrected through Their own power over death.

Scriptural support:

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

3–Mary was a virgin before she conceived Jesus, and after she conceived Jesus, and when He was born. Jesus was the literal begotten Son of Heavenly Father. Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit overshadowing her. Heavenly Father had the knowledge, of course, and the power, of course, to have her conceive without physical relations.

Scriptural support:

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

6–That statement from the ex-Mormon is silly and shows that they have no idea what they are talking about.

If you have a question about baptism for the dead, then you can research the topic and then ask intelligent questions about it.