Do LDS Prophets Really Talk To God?

[TexanKnight]

TK…you may want to correct this in blue…I am sure you meant to include the word “not”.

it will not let me correct it, but I promise I meant NOT to bash…if a moderator can change it, it would be appreciated

 

[CourtAdvocate]

Chris-WA:
No one of us can see inside your heart, but I do know that LDS are taught all their lives to seek this burning of the bosom. They constantly hear over and over and over again from the time they first start Sunday school that theirs is the true church and that their prophet is a true prophet. It is repeated after every talk they hear in church. These tenets are constantly emphasized above all others. So I believe these warm feelings they get are just that–warm feelings that confirm within themselves what they are familiar with–what they’ve been told thousands of times and will hear thousands more week in and week out.

I do believe the Holy Spirit can give us promptings, but I do not think this is the usual method of determining whether or not your church is true. But in the LDS religion the burning of the bosom is the ultimate spirtual experience, the trump card that they always use whenever they are challenged in their beliefs.

But a huge problem arises when one starts to study the teachings of LDS prophets and the history of the LDS church in more depth. One discovers bizarre teaching after bizarre teaching. There are too many problems, too many disconnects. Most often these things are glossed over in Sunday school, but when individual members take it upon themselves to really dive into the prophets from the available historical documents, that’s when they discover the problems. Many LDS then have to face the possibility that much of what they’ve been taught all their lives is in fact not true, and facing that possibility is terribly discouraging and difficult.

I believe all the LDS prophets are false prophets, beginning with Joseph Smith all the way down the line to today. It’s important that we look at what they had to say and also their actions. In the case of Joseph Smith, if you look at him objectively you would have to try really hard to miss some very troubling and serious faults in both his teachings and his actions during his time as prophet that tell me right away he was a phony in the same way we can say many modern televangelists are phonies. We are warned in the New Testament that many false prophets will come, and the LDS prophets I believe fall within that group.

One here can believe what they want ---- I left Catholicism years ago because I was not given my choice to become a Catholic without it being forced on me in childhood.

The Holy Ghost has confirmed to me what my church professes — I recognize some here are not interested in hearing that or otherwise. That is your choice — my choice for 25 years now is to remain loyal, in spite those outside of the church.

For me, prior to joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I learned what I did not as a child and as I stated, I had to become a Catholic as a child, with no decision to say no and not join.

As a Latter Day Saint, I certainly had a choice to join or not — certainly respecting anyone’s choice to become a member or walk away and become a member. Again as a Catholic, my choice was not recognized.

 

[ChrisB103]

One here can believe what they want ---- I left Catholicism years ago because I was not given my choice to become a Catholic without it being forced on me in childhood.

The Holy Ghost has confirmed to me what my church professes — I recognize some here are not interested in hearing that or otherwise. That is your choice — my choice for 25 years now is to remain loyal, in spite those outside of the church.

For me, prior to joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I learned what I did not as a child and as I stated, I had to become a Catholic as a child, with no decision to say no and not join.

As a Latter Day Saint, I certainly had a choice to join or not — certainly respecting anyone’s choice to become a member or walk away and become a member. Again as a Catholic, my choice was not recognized.

It is indeed regrettable that your experiences as a child in Catholicism were not positive. However, I’m sure you’ll understand that your subjective experience does not prove whether something is true or not. Just as there are young Catholics who feel forced into and imprisoned by the faith, there are many young Mormons who feel the same. One only needs to do a search on youtube or anywhere else on the internet to see examples of both. Does this disprove both my beliefs and yours?

Several good LDS friends of mine recently told me something that I think is very valuable for us to think about. It went something like this: “Jesus delivered us the truth. For us to believe what is true, it either must be passed down through the generations or restored (such as how Mormons would claim Joseph Smith restored the truth).” Given objective history, which of these is more plausible?

As a side comment, I find it interesting to see that the threads on Mormonism either have tons and tons of posts on topic, or there are almost no posts that actually address the OP. This thread appears to be one of the latter. Why is this?

 

[CourtAdvocate]

Hmmmm…not sure your point. I never said God did not talk to Prophets. I said, in essence, that God does not talk to LDS “prophets”.

My educated guess is the folklore has told you or convinced you that God does not speak to the “LDS prophets”, as some call them. They are prophets, whether some here wish to accept that or not. Placing the “LDS” in front to me just tells me some like a difference in their version of a prophet and the "LDS prophets, as they are called by some here.

 

[CourtAdvocate]

It is indeed regrettable that your experiences as a child in Catholicism were not positive. However, I’m sure you’ll understand that your subjective experience does not prove whether something is true or not. Just as there are young Catholics who feel forced into and imprisoned by the faith, there are many young Mormons who feel the same. One only needs to do a search on youtube or anywhere else on the internet to see examples of both. Does this disprove both my beliefs and yours?

Several good LDS friends of mine recently told me something that I think is very valuable for us to think about. It went something like this: “Jesus delivered us the truth. For us to believe what is true, it either must be passed down through the generations or restored (such as how Mormons would claim Joseph Smith restored the truth).” Given objective history, which of these is more plausible?

As a side comment, I find it interesting to see that the threads on Mormonism either have tons and tons of posts on topic, or there are almost no posts that actually address the OP. This thread appears to be one of the latter. Why is this?

At the end of the day for myself, I know what the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me.

What I believe is not a claim, as you state, suggesting that Mormons just recycle claims for people like you to want to believe — that is not the case. “Folklore” in my view provides enough evidence for discussion here on the forums and elsewhere.

Further, in light of the host of threads I have read on the forums here, my interest remains to give one viewpoint of my church in light of the “folklore” as I call it, that is spread by some, with the intention of destroying my conviction of what I believe. I can say to you, despite all the “folklore” I read here, nothing said previously, said today, or said in the future will change my conviction at all. That is fact.

 

[Jerusha]

I can say to you, despite all the “folklore” I read here, nothing said previously, said today, or said in the future will change my conviction at all. That is fact.

The LDS religion is folklore. Thus, you can pick and choose whatever you want to use to prove your point. I must say, that the various teachings do conflict with each other. It is a “religion” that always changes. More like a folk culture, steeped in magic.

Have a nice day.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I beg to differ — some here may not accept them as prophets – it is unfortunate that what the “LDS prophets” have to say is not acceptable to them, nonetheless they are prophets.

Of course, for some, “LDS prophets” are not prophets in their eyes.

For me, the Holy Ghost has testified such to me, regardless what if some may define as a prophet, accept according to their definition of a prophet.

Yet, what your so-called prophets have taught, you call folklore. Doesn’t sound like an affirmation to me. Perhaps they are only prophets when you agree with them, or, you are not in a position to defend what they have taught?

 

[ChrisB103]

At the end of the day for myself, I know what the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me.

What I believe is not a claim, as you state, suggesting that Mormons just recycle claims for people like you to want to believe — that is not the case. “Folklore” in my view provides enough evidence for discussion here on the forums and elsewhere.

Further, in light of the host of threads I have read on the forums here, my interest remains to give one viewpoint of my church in light of the “folklore” as I call it, that is spread by some, with the intention of destroying my conviction of what I believe. I can say to you, despite all the “folklore” I read here, nothing said previously, said today, or said in the future will change my conviction at all. That is fact.

We all make claims. Claims are, by definition, the assertion of something as fact. You claim Joseph Smith is a prophet. I claim that Jesus Christ was the last and greatest prophet, the very Word of God that was begotten by God before all ages. My intention is not to insult your beliefs (especially not by implying things through the semantics of the word “claim”), so I am sorry if you have perceived my intentions in this light. My intention is to discuss my belief and the beliefs of others in order to see what makes sense and what does not.

It is your choice to remain set in your beliefs, regardless of any evidence that is presented to you. However, you must understand that you do so in contradiction to the objective truths available in Christian history (such as the utter lack of evidence for the Great Apostasy) and the objective evidence surrounding the history of the LDS faith and its prophets.

At the end of all of our lives, we will be judged based on how we lived this life based on the gifts that God has given us. I pray that we would all follow God to the best of our ability, for God is truth itself.

 

[TexanKnight]

My educated guess is the folklore has told you or convinced you that God does not speak to the “LDS prophets”, as some call them. They are prophets, whether some here wish to accept that or not. Placing the “LDS” in front to me just tells me some like a difference in their version of a prophet and the "LDS prophets, as they are called by some here.

Folklore has nothing to do with this. I WAS LDS. I served a mission, served in leadership positions. I read the LDS History. I read ALL the history. I have read the quotes and others like I posted…do you REALLY believe God them that stuff?

 

[TexanKnight]

At the end of the day for myself, I know what the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me.

Unfortunately, that is the same thing said by Muslims, James Jones followers, &th Day Adventists and the other false churches.

Further, in light of the host of threads I have read on the forums here, my interest remains to give one viewpoint of my church in light of the “folklore” as I call it, that is spread by some, with the intention of destroying my conviction of what I believe. I can say to you, despite all the “folklore” I read here, nothing said previously, said today, or said in the future will change my conviction at all. That is fact.

You sound like me when I was LDS. before I discovered the many versions of the first vision, before I found out Joseph was a convicted con man, before I found out they taught Adam was God, before I found out they believed God had actual sex with Mary, before I found out that their revelations change when money is an issue, before I found out that they taught that God was once a sinful man…and etc etc.

I hope you follow the path I did

 

[CourtAdvocate]

The LDS religion is folklore. Thus, you can pick and choose whatever you want to use to prove your point. I must say, that the various teachings do conflict with each other. It is a “religion” that always changes. More like a folk culture, steeped in magic.

Have a nice day.

That piece of “folklore” is one issue that has a lot of people confused regarding their view of doctrine or history of the church has changed, according to them.

For those who argue it has, as I have said previously, someone like that will never be open to the history of the church through its website or as I have known for years, which is the same as stated on the church’s website – of course some will argue that I have been deceived based on my understanding, so the church is false and I should come running back to Catholicism??? My deception of the LDS church is why Catholicism is for me, they would try to submit to me??? My life with Catholicism ended years ago and there is no return planned or will ever be planned.

My interest has never been to change the views of those who will never be a friend of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints — I have known some will continue to say and do as they have against the church — that has been around long before I became a member so this sort of hatred will always be around.

I will continue to pray for respect among different faiths, Christian and otherwise, in the world today, particularly our Muslim brothers and sisters.

 

[TexanKnight]

That piece of “folklore” is one issue that has a lot of people confused regarding their view of doctrine or history of the church has changed, according to them.

According to them? Please elaborate. Please be specific. What doctrines have we claimed were changed that were never doctrines. Please be aware, we know the truth on this. So please be very specific.

In the meantime, please answer my questions about rhe quotes I posted. You appear to keep dodging them.

 

[CourtAdvocate]

TexanKnight:
From my thinking, what are your specific official LDS sources that validate your claims??? Again as I have always believed, some can believe anything they want (your choice to believe such) does not validate or proof it is true without question because you believe it, nonetheless you can believe it — I am certainly not trying to tell you that you can not believe that, of course you have.

I choose to answer the questions from the beginning — obviously my answers were not with the “acceptable folklore” — that is issue with my answers.

To be specific to your last reply, my answers are on the official websites — but wait that is not acceptable to you so again I have been deceived according to you, because I do not believe the “folklore”.

I have recognized the “folklore’s” existence — happy to not believe it.

 

[Link0126]

This is posted to bash our LDS Brothers and Sisters.

Freudian slip?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Just curious, what is the most recent case of an LDS prophet claiming a public revelation?

Haven’t seen anyone answer this question here or when I asked it in the Question About Prophets thread. Actually the question has been posed often by various posters here and never really answered, a lot of word dance around the question but no definitive answers. When it comes to the actual words spoken by prophets though it seems they throw the prophets under the bus, call it “folklore” (new word for the opinions of a man?), dust off their hands and ignore it.

 

[PaulDupre]

Yes, throw the prior prophets under the bus in order to sustain the current prophet.

Weird, and very cultish.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Telstar]

I don’t quite think the question is posed from the correct perspective. I might be getting a little too picky, but it’s way too easy for anyone to respond with, “Of course the LDS prophets talk to God”, and technically, they might be right. Anyone that prays, talks to God (which “God” they pray to depends on what their religion calls God, “Allah”, Buddha", etc.). The real question I would ask might be, ‘Does God actually talk to LDS prophets’. Then, my answer would probably be that it’s not likely that the God of the Bible does. I can’t say whether their ‘God’ speaks to them or not, but I really don’t believe we’re referring to the same God. Their view of God is certainly not the same as the way the RCC, or most of Christianity, views God, so I think that’s an important perspective to consider, too.

CourtAdvocate, your Bible quotes are all from the time before Jesus had been born, so the need for Prophets to foretell the coming of the Messiah was still a major role that needed to be filled. That need ended with the birth of Jesus, so there is no more need to prophesy about Him. He’s already here. He showed us the true Face of God. Jesus established His Church and left the plans for building it in the hands of Peter and His Apostles. He is the Great Architect, and they were the builders that were ‘hired’ to perform that task. They carried out His plans, perfectly. With the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit, they built a Church that will stand against the onslaught of hell, forever. She will keep that gate closed.

 

[Chris-WA]

One here can believe what they want ---- I left Catholicism years ago because I was not given my choice to become a Catholic without it being forced on me in childhood.

That is an odd reason for leaving a church. I could certainly undertand if you could not accept certain doctrines of Catholicism, but leaving simply because that was the faith you were raised in as a child makes no sense. There are millions of Mormon children who were raised LDS. Obviously you wouldn’t think they should leave Mormonism simply because they had no choice that their parents raised them Mormon? Is there more to the story than that?

 

[Mormon_Cultist]

my answer would probably be that it’s not likely that the God of the Bible does. I can’t say whether their ‘God’ speaks to them or not, but I really don’t believe we’re referring to the same God. Their view of God is certainly not the same as the way the RCC, or most of Christianity, views God, so I think that’s an important perspective to consider, too.

If I show you a ball, and tell you its a cube, has the object itself been changed? I am clearly talking about the object itself, but by saying its a cube I am wrong. The object is still a ball, and there isn’t some other object created just to fit the description I gave.
If there is an object in a box, and one of us postulates it to be a ball, the other a cube, there is still only one object, and it is still only either a ball or a cube; one of us is wrong.
Its an extreme simplification, granted, but I find it odd when you talk about a ‘different God’ or ‘different Christ’ when all that is different is the beliefs and opinions we hold about Him.

CourtAdvocate, your Bible quotes are all from the time before Jesus had been born, so the need for Prophets to foretell the coming of the Messiah was still a major role that needed to be filled. That need ended with the birth of Jesus, so there is no more need to prophesy about Him.

I understand the belief you hold, but I don’t find it logical that God simply changes His method of communication with men on Earth.
While I agree that prophecy of the future coming of Jesus Christ was no longer necessary after the time of His birth (obviously); this was never the only role filled by prophets of God. It was ever their job also to warn people of God’s word, and interpret His will to them and how it applied to them in their day, despite having been given to peoples of a previous time. This role of a prophet is still relevant and necessary today; I would argue more necessary today than at any time throughout the whole of history. It is also relevant to note that during Christ’s mortal ministry “He gave some… prophets”. Odd that He should assign an obsolete and outdated calling to individuals, if it was not necessary or even useful any more, no?

 

[Nicea325]

If I show you a ball, and tell you its a cube, has the object itself been changed? I am clearly talking about the object itself, but by saying its a cube I am wrong. The object is still a ball, and there isn’t some other object created just to fit the description I gave.
If there is an object in a box, and one of us postulates it to be a ball, the other a cube, there is still only one object, and it is still only either a ball or a cube; one of us is wrong.
Its an extreme simplification, granted, but I find it odd when you talk about a ‘different God’ or ‘different Christ’ when all that is different is the beliefs and opinions we hold about Him.

I understand the belief you hold, but I don’t find it logical that God simply changes His method of communication with men on Earth.
While I agree that prophecy of the future coming of Jesus Christ was no longer necessary after the time of His birth (obviously); this was never the only role filled by prophets of God. It was ever their job also to warn people of God’s word, and interpret His will to them and how it applied to them in their day, despite having been given to peoples of a previous time. This role of a prophet is still relevant and necessary today; I would argue more necessary today than at any time throughout the whole of history. It is also relevant to note that during Christ’s mortal ministry “He gave some… prophets”. Odd that He should assign an obsolete and outdated calling to individuals, if it was not necessary or even useful any more, no?

Do accept you Ellen G. White from the Seven Day Adventist as a prophet?