Do Lutherans think Catholics actually believe this, or do most of them know an actual devout Catholic?

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I don’t know if this is allowed on the forum, so slap my wrist if it isn’t, but would any of the participants in this thread consider making a reasoned comment in the comments section of this video? I’m no fan of Pastor Fisk’s explication of Catholicism on a good day, but usually it’s not quite so blatantly false and flirtatious with actual anti-Catholicism. It makes me wonder if all the LCMS teaches about Catholicism comes from 500-year-old polemics and total lack of acquaintance with any actual catechized Catholics. Also, do LCMS seminaries not delve too deeply into Church history prior to Luther or the Waldensians or favorable quotes from Saint Augustine? I’ll grant it’s about a three-minute-long newsflash, but all that says to me is that’s the wrong medium to answer the question he was asked.

youtu.be/NOaiiOKn_TM
 
For those of us who can’t see “You tube”, can anyone substantially summarise what is said so we can consider and discuss it?

It’s always interesting to weigh up opinions, and opinions about opinions.
 
I don’t know if this is allowed on the forum, so slap my wrist if it isn’t, but would any of the participants in this thread consider making a reasoned comment in the comments section of this video? I’m no fan of Pastor Fisk’s explication of Catholicism on a good day, but usually it’s not quite so blatantly false and flirtatious with actual anti-Catholicism. It makes me wonder if all the LCMS teaches about Catholicism comes from 500-year-old polemics and total lack of acquaintance with any actual catechized Catholics. Also, do LCMS seminaries not delve too deeply into Church history prior to Luther or the Waldensians or favorable quotes from Saint Augustine? I’ll grant it’s about a three-minute-long newsflash, but all that says to me is that’s the wrong medium to answer the question he was asked.

youtu.be/NOaiiOKn_TM
I am new here so not sure if you are on the correct forum or not, but we have talked about Pastor Fisk on the forums in the past. He sure is a piece of work. I wish he would do a little more current research before he opened his big mouth.

I just love how he starts with Trump speaking about being pro life and never addresses the abortion issue. Because this isn’t as important as bashing the Catholic Church. 🤷

Next the question “As I study the Bible and the Church’s history…”? Well he basically states I am not going to answer your question on church history, instead I am going to tell you what I hate the most about the Catholic Church. :hmmm:

Then he goes off on the Pope overturning what the Apostles have written? Um could you please give us some facts, just one will do? Of course he does, by going to Huff Post Live, interviewing an uniformed Catholic, to tell us what the Pope said. Hey Pastor wouldn’t the actual footage of what the Pope said been beneficial at this point? Nah because we all know if the Huff Post says it, it must be true. :doh2:

My favorite part was at 3:08. “The scriptures are the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets”. Really? I thought Jesus was the foundation of the Apostles? I think this takes Sola Scriptura to a whole new level. I am pretty sure Pastor Fisk believes Jesus started to ascend into heaven and turned around and said “Oh wait I forgot don’t forget to read my book and dropped the Bible on the Apostles heads.” :banghead:

I would leave a response on the video. I have in the past, but he never answers anything you might ask in the response. If I get bored later I might link over and ask him to name one thing that the Pope infallibly overturned that was taught by the Apostles.

Pastor Fisk has a lot to say but doesn’t have a lot of facts to back up what he says.
 
Rev. Fisk while an LCMS Pastor, is an adult convert from American Evangelicalism according to his own bio. I wonder which schools he graduated from, because his presentations are still much more “American evangelical” (meaning very passionate, confident and hard identity, but lacking in facts, history and detail) and less Lutheran (theological, education oriented, well versed on the ECF, values Tradition)
 
For those of us who can’t see “You tube”, can anyone substantially summarise what is said so we can consider and discuss it?

It’s always interesting to weigh up opinions, and opinions about opinions.
I will try my best to sum it up.

Starts the video bashing trump about changing from Pro Choice in his past to Pro Life.
Next lets bash how terrible Pro choice and liberals are.

But that’s not an important issue so he says lets answer a question:

“As I study the Bible and the Church’s history, I’ve come not only to question some protestant beliefs like Sola Scriptura, but also to wonder whether the Roman Catholic Church might have been right all along, as it seems to me that the protestant world has descended into chaos. How would you advise someone who is oscillating between the protestant’s and the Roman Catholic’s worlds? Do you believe that entering the catholic church is apostasy?”

From here he starts bashing the church creating new doctrines and the Pope being able to do what ever he wants. Once again all opinions zero facts.

I missed this, he says "now that is a side point, the real issue is the claim that Protestantism as you see it has descended into chaos, therefore all Protestantism is not what Jesus sent. And the dirty little secret of the matter is that Rome is in chaos. :confused: What the heck does Rome have to do with Protestantism??? I would call that a bait and switch. Never even says a word about other Protestant denominations. Although he has videos against them as well.

Then changes the subject back to the Pope and the Huff Live post.
Trent is the most anti-biblical/anti-christian teachings in the world .
The Pope is the anti-christ.
Becoming Catholic means that you reject being saved by Grace through Faith. (Missed that one the first time).

Then he went onto Apostasy is rejecting that the scriptures are the foundation of the Apostles.

Catholics also believe we are saved by works and climb a ladder through purgatory. Never new we believed that, wow I learned something new. 😉

Basically Pastor Fisk continues to spout his mouth to let us know how uninformed he is about religions other than his own.

He is Lutheran but I would guess he is on the edge and if challenged by other Lutherans will split off and create his own church.

His website is worldvieweverlasting.com/ not sure if you can view the video there or not.
 
I don’t know if this is allowed on the forum, so slap my wrist if it isn’t, but would any of the participants in this thread consider making a reasoned comment in the comments section of this video?
It is against CAF forum rules to solicit people to go to another forum or website to comment or debate.
 
It makes me wonder if all the LCMS teaches about Catholicism comes from 500-year-old polemics and total lack of acquaintance with any actual catechized Catholics. Also, do LCMS seminaries not delve too deeply into Church history prior to Luther or the Waldensians or favorable quotes from Saint Augustine?
I dont know who this ‘pastor’ is, I couldnt listen to his spiel (heard it before, ad nausem, from too many others my entire life). I can answer the question about their recent seminarians. Lutherans will take anyone, from any background or education and ‘train’ them to be pastors. I have known some wonderful shepherd’s in the LCMS flock, they would make wonderful priests/deacons in the Catholic Church. But young seminarians are being indoctrinated with Calvinistic doctrine, not Luther’s.

Interesting youtube title, Are Catholics Catholic? I have asked that question myself. I live in an area of old school Lutherans and Catholics who have intermarried. There is now a young LCMS pastor in town and he is very polemic also. Older Lutherans are set in their ways, but the younger, 40 and under group, have left to church their kids elsewhere, Baptist, non-denomination, Church of Christ, and yes, Catholic. So the question in the youtube title should really be, Are Lutherans Catholic? In their old red hymnal and the one replaced about 10 years ago, the creed read, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The newest hymnal changed that to, One Holy Christian and Apostolic Church.

I do hope, for the sake of unity (?) the Catholic Church would not do THAT.

I am a card carrying Old School Catholic, with sympathies towards my Old School Lutherans (the ones who genuflect, cross themselves and pray the rosary), yes, they do that.
 
It is against CAF forum rules to solicit people to go to another forum or website to comment or debate.
1ke is correct. You can start a thread about a video and ask people for their comments on this forum. But you cannot ask for people to go somewhere else to comment. In forum lingo, that is called “swarming.” It would lead to a negative perception of this site if it becomes a place for people to gather and then unleash a crowd upon whichever website we decided to descend upon.
 
1ke is correct.

It would lead to a negative perception of this site if it becomes a place for people to gather and then unleash a crowd upon whichever website we decided to descend upon.
That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Such a rule makes sense, and I had an inkling there may have been one. Haha. I suppose I get frustrated with his plunges into Catholic bashing and was hoping to “swarm” the comments with other catechized Catholics who might lead other viewers to question the echo chamber. But do please accept my apologies and disregard the request.
 
1ke is correct. You can start a thread about a video and ask people for their comments on this forum. But you cannot ask for people to go somewhere else to comment. In forum lingo, that is called “swarming.” It would lead to a negative perception of this site if it becomes a place for people to gather and then unleash a crowd upon whichever website we decided to descend upon.
Good explanation.

And if I may add, even if someone just said “I’ve been posting on such-and-such other website. The rest of you might like to as well.” without specifically seeking people to oppose (or support) a particular post, that to me would still seem like an inappropriate form of “advertizing” (and I’m guessing would not be allowed by the moderators, but I’m not trying to speak on their behalf).
 
But do please accept my apologies and disregard the request.
Will do, and will do. 🙂

It’s too late, of course, for you to edit the OP; but the mods might delete the link you provided (as they see fit), so I don’t think you have anything to worry about. :cool:
 
I don’t think some commentator on the Huffington Post would be considered authoritative on Catholic teaching.
 
Well, I hope the post isn’t deleted. I’m still curious whether this is at all a typical Lutheran, or perhaps typical LCMS, view of Catholicism or, if it isn’t, where Fisk may have picked it up. I don’t expect every LCMS pastor to be Father Richard John Neuhaus, but at least they could disagree with us based on what we actually teach and believe.
 
I don’t think some commentator on the Huffington Post would be considered authoritative on Catholic teaching.
Based on their reporting on all religion, you’d think that no one of any religious persuasion would consider them so. That notwithstanding, Fisk’s video gave more time to that interview than anything else except himself.
 
For those of us who can’t see “You tube”, can anyone substantially summarise what is said so we can consider and discuss it?

It’s always interesting to weigh up opinions, and opinions about opinions.
As a matter of interest. Why can you not see youtube? If you are in the UK, you can certainly see it.
 
I dont know who this ‘pastor’ is,
He’s quite well-known, being a convert from Evangelicalism and the author of “Broken: 7 Rules Every Christian Should Break”. It’s a good book for his intended audience: young males who are new or less-than-firm in the faith.
I couldnt listen to his spiel (heard it before, ad nausem, from too many others my entire life).
Maybe you were hearing something you expected to hear, instead of what was being said.
I can answer the question about their recent seminarians. Lutherans will take anyone, from any background or education and ‘train’ them to be pastors. I have known some wonderful shepherd’s in the LCMS flock, they would make wonderful priests/deacons in the Catholic Church. But young seminarians are being indoctrinated with Calvinistic doctrine, not Luther’s.
This is uncalled for, untrue and unfair. LCMS Lutherans teach only Lutheran doctrine at two of the finest seminaries in the world, Concordia St. Louis and Concordia Ft. Wayne. They don’t take “just anyone.” Prospective students must have the approval of their pastor, the district president (bishop), pass several background checks, be proficient in Hebrew and Greek, have some experience with German and Latin, and have a bachelor’s degree (though this last one is not mandatory if they are older men with significant professional experience). Hardly “anyone from any background or education.” :rolleyes: The training (which did not need scare quotes) is real, immersive and challenging. Until a few years ago, they even shared Pastoral Care courses (hospital bedside manner, etc.) with Catholics, among others. Not all who make it to seminary become certified for ministry and ordained.
Interesting youtube title, Are Catholics Catholic? I have asked that question myself. I live in an area of old school Lutherans and Catholics who have intermarried. There is now a young LCMS pastor in town and he is very polemic also. Older Lutherans are set in their ways, but the younger, 40 and under group, have left to church their kids elsewhere, Baptist, non-denomination, Church of Christ, and yes, Catholic. So the question in the youtube title should really be, Are Lutherans Catholic? In their old red hymnal and the one replaced about 10 years ago, the creed read, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The newest hymnal changed that to, One Holy Christian and Apostolic Church.
Again, you’re terribly misinformed. The old red hymnal to which you refer, The Lutheran Hymnal (TLH 1941), used “Christian” almost exclusively. Why? Because the Lutherans who translated that hymnbook were German; there was no German word for the English “catholic.” The new hymnal, Lutheran Service Book (LSB 2006), uses “Christian” for the Apostles and Nicene Creeds, and in a good way of teaching, includes an asterisk with the footnote saying “The ancient text reads ‘catholic,’ meaning universal.” The Athanasian Creed keeps the “catholic,” as it is the most concise Creed and is the most rarely read - so when it is read, it is properly explained. Surely you understand the difficulty in teaching non-religious folks the difference, in English, between Catholic and catholic? Bottom line: these are quirks of the English language, not proof of some terrible anti-Catholic conspiracy, as some would make it out to be. :rolleyes:
I do hope, for the sake of unity (?) the Catholic Church would not do THAT.

I am a card carrying Old School Catholic, with sympathies towards my Old School Lutherans (the ones who genuflect, cross themselves and pray the rosary), yes, they do that.
Then you’re my kind of Catholic. And I’m your kind of Lutheran. As difficult as it may be to believe, so is Pastor Fisk. He’s just speaking to a very specific crowd. We do have differences in belief, however slight, and kudos to him for not ignoring that. His message, however, is geared toward those young Lutheran males who may be questioning their faith. I personally don’t care for the bombastic tone or flashy presentation, but it serves a good purpose in reaching those who otherwise may be disillusioned with the faith and could fall away entirely.
 
Well, I hope the post isn’t deleted. I’m still curious whether this is at all a typical Lutheran, or perhaps typical LCMS, view of Catholicism or, if it isn’t, where Fisk may have picked it up. I don’t expect every LCMS pastor to be Father Richard John Neuhaus, but at least they could disagree with us based on what we actually teach and believe.
We do disagree on points of doctrine, and I think that’s Pastor Fisk’s point. Some of the Ecumenical movements would have us sign worthless agreements that state, more or less, that we agree to disagree. This is a disservice to true unity.

Instead, Pastor Fisk notes the doctrinal points where we disagree. That’s our greatest asset in working together – honesty. On causes we share, like Life and Family, we work together. But where we disagree, we won’t sign silly Ecumenical documents. Confessional Lutherans are honest about our beliefs, just as most Traditional Catholics are.

Where this gets sticky is in his presentation. It does not come across as concerned or loving, but as spiteful and legalistic. This is regretful, and I can assure you that this is not how Lutherans intend the message to come across. If you met Pastor Fisk in public or one-on-one, he would be as pastoral as pastors can be. What we should understand is that he is speaking to a specific group of individuals - “The Lutheran Nerd Clan” - who have a specific ‘gamer’ culture that interprets etiquette and platitudes as insincere. They’re also young - they think like children, reason like children. To these little ones, everything is either black or white. They’re still on the milk; the solid food that comes with increased faith and understanding is beyond their spiritual digestion.
 
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