Do Men Hate Church?

[Al_Masetti]

At “Oprah” masses, I have sometimes found consolation by closely focusing my attention on the words of the Eucharistic prayer and consecration. That, along with receiving Communion, makes mass meaningful for me.

I simply endure the weak homily, horribly sappy music, and gender-mutilated scripture readings, waiting for the elevation of the Host.

We did that “touchy-feely” stuff in the 60’s and 70’s, and it led to a great decline in the participation of the faithul, especially among men. It’s time to get over it and regain what we lost.

Strong Catholic men, you will find friends in these forums!

• Rob in Oregon

You mentioned “weak homily” …

About 15 years ago, I had to make a business day-trip of about 100 miles on a weekday. The appointment was for like 7am. Anyway I got there, we conducted the meeting and I was headed out wandering around the somewhat rural area looking for the entrance to the highway …

It was around 8:30am and I was sort of saying to myself that it was right around time for morning Mass.

And I came to a stop sign … at Church Street!

[Now, there’s a clue!]
So, I just “arbitrarily” picked a direction and set out onto CHURCH STREET looking for a CHURCH.

And, low and behold, I came upon a magnificent brick and stone edifice, set well back from the road.

And the sign said “Community of Saint [whatever]”

“Hmmmm … thinks I … I wonder if it’s Catholic.”]

So I drove into the parking lot and walked into the darkened church. No body around. Finally I saw a person and asked if there would be a Mass. And they said, yes, in 15 minutes in the chapel… and motioned toward the back someplace.

So, I wandered into the tiny chapel. Among the things I noticed were two loaves of pumpernickel bread ?] in a plate, and an “altar girl”.

“Hmmmmm… thinks I … I wonder if it’s Catholic.”]

But the little room was crowded with smiling people who had bright kelly green ribbons pinned to their shirts and dresses … of course, it is St. Patricks’s day … must be Catholic.

The “priest” was wearing only the alb garment.

“Hmmmmm … thinks I … I wonder if it’s Catholic.”]

As the “Mass” began, a fellow in a plaid sports shirt got up to read the GOSPEL!!!

“HMMMMM … thinks I … IS THIS PLACE CATHOLIC???”]

My brain was racing in high gear… desperate for some sign that this place was Catholic.

And, then, I KNEW …

And I could finally relax.

For, the priest stood up and gave the most wishy-washy homily I have ever heard in my entire 60+ years.

Indeed, this place was Catholic!!

:banghead:*

 

[jc-servant]

So what is the solution?

Please be practical.

Fred,

Have you read Scott Hahn’s book “The Lamb’s Supper” or seen the DVD of his lecture on “The 4th Cup” which is also about the liturgy? I saw the lecture when I was in RCIA and it has had a profound effect on the way that I view the liturgy (regardless of the priest or music or any of the things that used to bother me at times).

The book teaches about the connection between the book of Revelation and the mass. I know a number of men at my parish have recommended it to others as it has helped them to get more out of the liturgy.

The DVD lecture is not slickly produced, but oh boy the content is amazing! Dr. Hahn explains so many things about the connections between the OT and NT such as the seder meal (Passover) and the mass. He uses lots of Scripture as a former Protestant Bible scholar which is really helpful to me. I love the mass more now that I know more background about what is going on and why.

scotthahn.com/

Because I have sponsored in RCIA for a number of years I have had the opportunity to speak in depth about church/faith with literally 100’s of Catholic (and soon to be Catholic) men. One recurring theme is that the more they have learned about the liturgy and about our faith, the better they like going to mass including daily mass. Some have found the spark by studying apologetics. Some have found it by reading the early church fathers and others by studying the mystics such as St. Johns of the Cross. We also have lots of lifelong Catholics at our parish who sit through the entire year of RCIA (which is pretty in depth and orthodox) as a way to recharge their faith. I believe that we each have something different that will work if just keep searching for it.

Fred, I hope that you keep searching until you find whatever it takes to get you so on fire in your faith that getting to mass and adoration will be a highlight in your week!

 

[jc-servant]

Amen.

As much as I love the Mass, I couldn’t agree more with this observation.

Some men turn to the mystics of the church in addition to sports to gain their “desert” experience. I even know of a very devout evangelical Christian who has begun moving closer to Catholic after studying the Catholic mystics. BTW, I think softball must have some kind of mystical element to it because our parish has 7 men’s teams! First, we lure them with team sports then the next thing they know someone has them signed up for a retreat. ; )

 

[FredWentworth]

Thanks. Helpful for me. However the systematic problem for men/guys/us remains. What should be done?

I’ve had the same experiences as other Catholics in the military. Chaplains are universally outstanding and really understand men.They really make you proud to be Catholic. Unfortunately, I’m not near a post with a Catholic chaplain, so am finding my way or not as best I can.

FW

 

[Sheeniac]

Thanks. Helpful for me. However the systematic problem for men/guys/us remains. What should be done?
FW

If you’re looking for a cultural change, I would suggest not holding your breath.

If you’re looking for a personal answer, my advice to a military man would be (and I say this with Christian love and charity) to just suck it up and go. God isn’t asking you to like it, just to attend.

Personally, I dislike the touchy feely stuff (I drive an extra 20 mins to go to a Church that does NOT hold hands during the Our Father), but I still attend.

Consider it a cross, and offer up your suffering to Jesus.

 

[chevalier]

Men have more authority issues than women. They have more of an obedience reflex than we do, don’t they? I mean the social kind of obedience, not a soldier’s obedience to orders.

What’s more, I think men are bigger individualists. Yesterday, a female friend of mine (married, with children) said, “friends run our lives.” That’s a generalisation and perhaps an exaggeration, but it’s still a valid difference between men and women. Men don’t have that much of the social thing.

This leads to a further problem: since women have more of the social “thing”, they probably populate certain circles and structures more densely than men do. Then, men feel underrepresented and generally directed by women. This is not something men like - if they care. But mostly they do. I can’t think of any who positively like it, anyway.

Hope I haven’t offended anyone.

Now, if you want to hear my personal opinion or experience, I don’t feel unwelcome. It’s true that some environments within the church are feminised, but come on, aren’t all priests male? I have a preference towards the male way of dealing with things, but so long as I’m not expected to act in a way contrary to my nature, I’m mostly fine.

I’ve heard the phrase “Catholic singles” on a number of occasions, so I don’t think Catholic single men are ignored. In fact, I have some sort of a problem with too much attention going in that direction to no good. I don’t believe in match-making, I don’t believe in marriage of convenience, I don’t like the depersonalisation of specific persons in the general search of a partner for marriage, I loath the very idea of one person having multiple concurrent romantic relationships no matter the level. I see all of it as beneath human dignity. As a single man (and recently dumped again), I would appreciate a prayer or two for the right choice and all, but hearing anything about Catholic singles or related makes me suspicious.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

I once had the experience of doing a retreat at a Trappist monastery in Iowa. It was very interesting and eye-opening. These are all pretty manly guys, living lives of quiet contemplation and hard work (farming & woodworking). They chant the psalms, as best they can, not necessarily professional quality voices but they get good at it doing it 7 times a day, and the Mass was very reverent, in an understated way, in their stone chapel. A very different experience from your typical modern urban or suburban parish.

I might recommend that the OP, or anyone who perceives the local parish as too “feminized”, maybe find a monastic community (Benedictines, Trappists, etc) to visit for a while, and get into the daily routine of communal prayer & silence. I wonder if it might appeal to those with more of a military background.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

The NO Mass (as practiced in the last few decades) and the Hagen and Haas songs are all effeminate and and geared towards women. Most NO generation priests preach wimpy, post modern homilies too. Men do better with strong preaching from scripture and not psycho-babble pep talks. Men, especially military men I would guess, like order and structure in their worship. The old Hymns and the chanting. Music with theological meat and a sense of beauty that is transcendent and not effeminate - in other words something more like the old mass, but in English.

Manly priests wouldn’t hurt either. I can’t remember a priest growing up, save one really old one, who did not have a non-impediment lisp and effeminate mannerisms.

In short I think us guys crave liturgy with a chest. Not just a poodle skirt.

Mel

I agree with Melchior about today’s music being effeminate (that is not meant as a shot on women)… I don’t want to sing most of those songs. But, I think Melchior’s characterization of effeminate priests goes a bit too far (I know and have know dozens of priest who acted like real men, of course there are not a few exceptions).
THAT BEING SAID, I am also a single man (late 20s). I can sympathize with what you say about feeling like you stick out amidst all the families. Fred, have you ever tried to start up a men’s reading group? There are several good Catholic books that you could read and have some fellowship there. I also like to continue to learn about my faith from an intellectual perspective, and would love to be in a group with other men who do so.

 

[chevalier]

Errr, just a thought, FredWentworth, have you considered joining a military (chivalric) order? Malta, Holy Sepulchre, something else like that?

 

[Al_Masetti]

Have any of you all read “Why Catholics Don’t Sing?”

 

[Caesar]

I have found an interesting thing- many women are drawn to more informal, community-oriented Masses, while more men are drawn to the formalized ritual and ceremony of traditional Masses.

 

[dwc]

Ok, I’m a woman and I’m trying hard to understand the man’s viewpoint as presented here. We live in a pretty orthodox and traditional diocese and our masses are not touchy feely or what not. Our choir has both men and women. Most of our hymns are older, traditional ones. I don’t think I understand what “feminine” hymns are versus just regular hymns. Can I have some examples?

I’m very interested because I have an 11 year old son I would love to keep involved and invested in the church as he grows.

All that said, my mind wanders during long, rambling homilies. I feel cheated if the homily is wishy washy or pointless. I like them to be direct, no holds barred, challenging us to be on fire for Christ, etc. It sounds like you’re objecting to a watered down presentation of the faith, and I’m trying to see how that’s something that men experience but women don’t.

 

[FredWentworth]

Caesar is largely right in terms of tradition and ritual. I guess one of the reasons why I, as a Catholic, disliked the mega-church experience I had with a previous girlfriend was that it was so artificial, so buzz/hype like, and there wasn’t any sense that you were part of the Church going back to Christ - like you are with the Catholic Church. Megachurches do more damage to Christianity, I think, than anything else that secularists do.

One of the great aspects of being Catholic is that we have all this history, from Matthew and Christ’s handing of the keys to Peter onwards, and we’ve been steadfast in our faith. However, our current Mass is often so weak, aimless and dispiriting. I have also felt, as a man, that the Church’s modern message is that God wants us to be nice, friendly, effeminate, liberal conformers …

Before anyone says it, yes the Knights of Columbus are excellent. They may be my way back, as a lapsed Knight.

Strength & Honor!

FAW

 

[chevalier]

Anything wrong being nice and friendly? I always try to be that and even though I don’t probably come across as a strong male figure as a result, I don’t think I’m effeminate. But yes, yes, I do get what you mean. I’m just saying that perhaps we don’t need to be stern and ever-so-heroic in our daily lives, while liberal conformism is a whole different matter. God is God and Ratzinger is his prophet.