Do modern Protestants know what they are protesting?

[PRmerger]

So then His words did pass away or they didn’t? Which words was Jesus speaking of?

Was He speaking of general teachings and not actually His Words?

No. His words didn’t pass away. That’s what the Catholic Church preserved.

Could you answer whether you believe that public revelation has ended with the death of the last apostle?

Yes or no?

If you do believe this, do you believe this even if “Jesus didn’t say this”?

 

[FathersKnowBest]

So then His words did pass away or they didn’t? Which words was Jesus speaking of?

Was He speaking of general teachings and not actually His Words?

The former.

Only staunch fundamentalists take the literalistic meanings.

 

[PRmerger]

No. His words didn’t pass away. That’s what the Catholic Church preserved.

Could you answer whether you believe that public revelation has ended with the death of the last apostle?

Yes or no?

If you do believe this, do you believe this even if “Jesus didn’t say this”?

Also,** dronald**: do you believe that the Epistle to the Hebrews is God’s Word even though
“Jesus didn’t say this”?

And do you believe that the Epistle of Barnabas is NOT the Word of God even though “Jesus didn’t say this”?

 

[dronald]

As I stated in a prior post…it is the Church that keeps his words from passing away.

“my words will never pass away”…could also mean the Church, through the Church…His words will never pass away, as the Church will continue proclaiming His word.

Do you think that when the Church speaks…it is not Christ who is speaking, through the Church?

I find it hard to accept that Jesus said “my words will never pass away” and didn’t mean His actual words, like how you and I are having a discussion right now.

No. His words didn’t pass away. That’s what the Catholic Church preserved.

Could you answer whether you believe that public revelation has ended with the death of the last apostle?

Yes or no?

If you do believe this, do you believe this even if “Jesus didn’t say this”?

We know for certain that the Apostles knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit when writing. I know this for the same reasons you do, and it’s that we take it by faith

Also,** dronald**: do you believe that the Epistle to the Hebrews is God’s Word even though
“Jesus didn’t say this”?

And do you believe that the Epistle of Barnabas is NOT the Word of God even though “Jesus didn’t say this”?

Barnabas was written much later; although I don’t have any specific issue with it. Do you?

Regardless, you accept what your Church teaches on faith, the same way an Atheist would reject it because of lack of faith. I also accept what my Church teaches based on faith and history.

 

[PRmerger]

I find it hard to accept that Jesus said “my words will never pass away” and didn’t mean His actual words, like how you and I are having a discussion right now.

What Jesus meant is the kerygma. His words, but not his exact words.

You believe in a man-made tradition that states that the Gospels record Jesus’ exact words.

You believe this because you heard a man say this, who heard another man say this, who heard another man say this…but no one ever read, “Jesus’ words, exactly, were recorded in the Bible.”

You’ve been duped into believing a man-made tradition, dronald.

 

[PRmerger]

We know for certain that the Apostles knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit when writing. I know this for the same reasons you do, and it’s that we take it by faith

Sure.

That means you are not a Bible Alone Advocate.

And it means that you defer to the authority of something OTHER than the Bible.

And that means that you believe in the authority of the Catholic Church.

And unless you believe the Church got it wrong when it discerned the 27 book canon of the NT, you believe the Church is infallible. At least, as it applies to the canon of Scripture.

Barnabas was written much later; although I don’t have any specific issue with it. Do you?

It’s not for me to determine whether it has issues.

If I had issues with the Pauline epistles, would that matter?

Regardless, you accept what your Church teaches on faith, the same way an Atheist would reject it because of lack of faith. I also accept what my Church teaches based on faith and history.

Excellent.

So you are not Bible Alone.

And you believe what your church teaches even if she is wrong? Doesn’t your church claim that it is fallible? That is, going to be wrong?

So why are you giving your submission to a church that’s going to be wrong, admittedly, at some point?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, what did Jesus say that was not written down in the Bible? I don’t want everything He said, just an example of what we know He definitely said but not found in the Bible; as He says “My words will never pass away.”

I find it ironic that you are insisting on believing Jesus’ “exact words” when Jesus never, not even once, said that His “exact words” would be recorded for posterity.

You can search the Gospels in their entirety, in Greek, Aramaic or Latin, and you will never find that in a single verse.

And you can search the entirety of the Bible, from Genesis through Revelation, and you will never find a single verse that says that all of God’s revelation was contained in a book, or written down in its entirety, or preserved in the Bible.

Not a single verse.

 

[dronald]

What Jesus meant is the kerygma. His words, but not his exact words.

You believe in a man-made tradition that states that the Gospels record Jesus’ exact words.

You believe this because you heard a man say this, who heard another man say this, who heard another man say this…but no one ever read, “Jesus’ words, exactly, were recorded in the Bible.”

You’ve been duped into believing a man-made tradition, dronald.

So what words of Jesus can we say for sure were said that aren’t found in the Bible is my question?

I am quite the Bible literalist, in that if the Bible says it, it’s true. If Jesus said [X] in the Bible than He said it; that’s all there is to it. I can’t imagine anything in the Bible that Jesus didn’t truly say.

Sure.

That means you are not a Bible Alone Advocate.

And it means that you defer to the authority of something OTHER than the Bible.

And that means that you believe in the authority of the Catholic Church.

And unless you believe the Church got it wrong when it discerned the 27 book canon of the NT, you believe the Church is infallible. At least, as it applies to the canon of Scripture.

Yeah, I think your Church nailed it with the NT books. Good job Catholic Church.

It’s not for me to determine whether it has issues.

If I had issues with the Pauline epistles, would that matter?

Would it matter if I had issues with someone who tells me the universe is billions of years old? Wouldn’t change the truth of the matter.

We put our faith in those we deem worthy, such as Scientists, the Apostles, Jesus, etc.

Excellent.

So you are not Bible Alone.

And you believe what your church teaches even if she is wrong? Doesn’t your church claim that it is fallible? That is, going to be wrong?

So why are you giving your submission to a church that’s going to be wrong, admittedly, at some point?

The only thing we can truly accept on faith is what the Bible says. Any other Church has had its muck ups, but the Bible is pretty darn swell.

 

[clem456]

I find it hard to accept that Jesus said “my words will never pass away” and didn’t mean His actual words, like how you and I are having a discussion right now.

The key is, Jesus is a person, The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, The Word Made Flesh, who assumed human nature.
He is not “O Great Transcriber of Letters”, he is not “Assurance of Jot and Tittle”.

He is a person who lived in time, with other persons (ecclesia), who he entrusted with his mission.

His words “never passing away” does not refer to a rigid literalism. It refers to the eternal authority and durability of His person, and the sharing of His person with His body, the Church.

Jesus is not a book, He is a person. That changes everything for Christians.

 

[PRmerger]

So what words of Jesus can we say for sure were said that aren’t found in the Bible is my question?

I’ve answered it, at least 3 times now.

You believe that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.

But there’s not a single word of that from the lips of Jesus recorded in the Bible.

You believe it.

Even though Jesus isn’t recorded as saying it.

Why is that?

I am quite the Bible literalist, in that if the Bible says it, it’s true. If Jesus said [X] in the Bible than He said it; that’s all there is to it.

Sure. That’s very Catholic of you to say.

I can’t imagine anything in the Bible that Jesus didn’t truly say.

Yes. Very Catholic this, too.

With Jesus being God, as the author of the OT.

Yeah, I think your Church nailed it with the NT books. Good job Catholic Church.

Excellent.

So this acknowledges her infallibility.

And that you are not a Bible Alone advocate.

Would it matter if I had issues with someone who tells me the universe is billions of years old? Wouldn’t change the truth of the matter.

This is a non-sequitur.

It appears as if you are saying that we can read ancient texts and decide for ourselves if the text is the inspired word of God or not.

That is verrrrryyyyy problematic. So I hope that this is not your position.

The only thing we can truly accept on faith is what the Bible says. Any other Church has had its muck ups, but the Bible is pretty darn swell.

And you know this through the CC.

 

[PRmerger]

Jesus is not a book, He is a person. That changes everything for Christians.

Indeed.

Christians are a people of the Word.

Not a people of the Book.
That would make us bibliolators.

 

[clem456]

So what words of Jesus can we say for sure were said that aren’t found in the Bible is my question?

Good luck finding an answer to that question. The truth is, we don’t have literal proof of anything. The only thing you know for sure is, you are alive on Sept 16 2014, and you know something about this Christianity because you are standing on the shoulders of those who witnessed Christ before you. You are trusting centuries of Christians who you know nothing about. And you can say bible bible all you want but the bible didn’t exist when Jesus walked the earth. You are trusting other persons for your faith, whether you will acknowledge it or not.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

So what words of Jesus can we say for sure were said that aren’t found in the Bible is my question?

I am quite the Bible literalist, in that if the Bible says it, it’s true. If Jesus said [X] in the Bible than He said it; that’s all there is to it. I can’t imagine anything in the Bible that Jesus didn’t truly say.

Then how do you explain the FACT that Jesus’ words are recorded in Greek, whilst He spoke in Aramaic?

Yeah, I think your Church nailed it with the NT books. Good job Catholic Church.

You think, or you know?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

We know for certain that the Apostles knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit when writing. I know this for the same reasons you do, and it’s that we take it by faith

We know for certain that Luke and Mark were NOT Apostles of Jesus. For all matters what they write is “hearsay”.

We DON’T know for certain who is the writer of Hebrews.

We know they are Scriptures for the same reason: They were revealed as Scriptures to the Church.

 

[stewstew03]

…
I am quite the Bible literalist, in that if the Bible says it, it’s true. If Jesus said [X] in the Bible than He said it; that’s all there is to it. I can’t imagine anything in the Bible that Jesus didn’t truly say.
…

Great! So you believe Jesus is literally present (body, blood, soul and divinity) under the appearance of bread and wine in the Eucharist? See John 6:53-58.

And you also believe baptism is necessary (read: normative) for salvation? See Colossians 2:11-12.

.

 

[Indifferently]

I know what I’m protesting, yes.

 

[pablope]

I find it hard to accept that Jesus said “my words will never pass away” and didn’t mean His actual words, like how you and I are having a discussion right now.

Can you cite the chapter and verse where Jesus said He will leave us his exact words?

In looking at the whole NT, Jesus never said he will leave us something written, but He did say He will leave us His Church…so I fairly confident He meant the Church will carry His words for eternity till kingdom come.

We know for certain that the Apostles knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit when writing. I know this for the same reasons you do, and it’s that we take it by faith

 

[pablope]

The only thing we can truly accept on faith is what the Bible says. Any other Church has had its muck ups, but the Bible is pretty darn swell.

The Bible does not say anything…it does not have a voice of its own. Its voice is the Church.

When you say “what the Bible says”…what you are really saying is what the Church says the Bible says.

The only difference is for you, it is not the CC…but it is whatever denomination you belong too.

But the question is…do you trust what your denomination says the Bible says? Do you think it will teach you something in error or not?

 

[PRmerger]

When you say “what the Bible says”…what you are really saying is what the Church says the Bible says.

 

[spina1953]

I often wonder just what Modern Protestants are protesting when so far from my experience in everyday talking to people most do not seem to know and most likely do not care. There are those who come to my door and want me to join their church and when I say that I am catholic and have a Church to got to they look at me funny and say I am going to hell because I am not a Christian. but other than that and those denominations that preach Anti-Catholic and Anti-Jewish teachings I have to say that so far on CAF that is not the case, yet, some do and some don’t. Guess it depends on who one talks to.