Do Mormons beleive there were/are gods before God?

[Stephen168]

God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

Is don’t say that in any of the verses. All means all. The scriptures and history do not support Mormonism

 

[taylorf]

I want to come back to the question this thread started off asking, and that is about LDS beliefs concerning God’s origin (specifically if the LDS believe that there were gods before God, or in other words, did Heavenly Father have a Heavenly Father?). What I’m seeing are mixed responses. Some LDS and former LDS affirm an understanding that yes Mormons believe that God is one God in a lineage of gods stretching back to some unknown generation or perhaps has no beginning. That He progressed to divinity (the “third estate”) through being born as a spirit child of another god, living a mortal life (perhaps as a sinner or perhaps as a sinless savior), and achieving exultation. Other LDS seem to hold a different view that God has eternally been distinct from other spirits or intelligences and through He has progressed and is progressing, He is nevertheless above everyone and everything else from all eternity. This view still encompasses a plurality of divine beings and the idea that God the Father was once mortal at some point (though how he became so is not clear and this view allows for the idea that He was divine prior to being mortal). There have also been other variations in Mormon thought about the nature of God such as BY’s Adam-God teachings and GBH’s reluctance to affirm that the LDS hold that God was once a man nowadays in an interview. All LDS seem in agreement that the core of God’s being, the intelligence, which they hold is also the core of man’s being, is eternal, along with the matter that man and God are composed of. This differing of views probably represent differing views within Mormonism itself and reflects that the doctrine is not completely defined in any official capacity promulgated by the LDS Church today.

Thank you for helping me understand this doctrine and its relationship to Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant teaching.

Matt - your summary is spot on. And it will never get any clearer. Some LDS embrace it while others avoid like the plague…just as Gordon B Hinckley did.

 

[MattofTexas]

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. I shared with you the scriptures from the Pearl of Great Price, one of the Mormon standard works, along with the Bible and D&C.

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. (Zach. 12:1)

.

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

Please see posts 3, 5, 9, 12, 45, and 106 on this thread among others. I don’t feel I’ve been misinformed by these LDS and former LDS posters as that discussions about these beliefs are all over the internet. Please see this sermon where Joseph Smith said: “If Abraham reasoned thus—If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it.” Also check out FAIR’s website where they acknowledge that the area you quoted and called misinformation " is seemingly the dominant one in LDS thought" (although it’s not the only position).

 

[LivingWaters7]

And I did but you ignored it.

Further, there is no Biblical scriptural support for the belief that our spirits (or “intelligence”) is uncreated or eternal.

 

[Nicea325]

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. I shared with you the scriptures from the Pearl of Great Price, one of the Mormon standard works, along with the Bible and D&C.

I don’t think that is much support either way, because we both agree He created our bodies. I would imagine the RC understanding is that at that time, both our bodies and spirits were created. The LDS understanding is that our eternal spirit was bound with our temporal body.

Bad theology…bad! That is the whole problem with Mormon theology: re-defining terms.

YOU ARE NOT ETERNAL…PERIOD! Spirit or not, humans are NOT Eternal. Eternity pertains to God and to God alone. For the life of me, I do not comprehend why Mormons fail to understand the definition of ETERNITY!

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by rmcmullan
God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

Your comments speak volumes as to why Mormons believe in multiple gods. In essence, you are saying:

We claim co-existence with the Eternal God,thus we are God too.

:ehh:

 

[Nicea325]

Lets look at the word “eternal”

ETERNAL

Pronunciation (US):

Dictionary entry overview: What does eternal mean?

• ETERNAL (adjective)
The adjective ETERNAL has 2 senses:

1. continuing forever or indefinitely
2. tiresomely long; seemingly without end

Familiarity information: ETERNAL used as an adjective is rare.

Dictionary entry details

• ETERNAL (adjective)

Sense 1 eternal [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Continuing forever or indefinitely

Synonyms:

unceasing; perpetual; everlasting; eternal; unending; ageless; aeonian; eonian

Context examples:

the ageless themes of love and revenge / eternal truths / life everlasting / hell’s perpetual fires / the unending bliss of heaven

Similar:

lasting; permanent (continuing or enduring without marked change in status or condition or place)

God is eternal. Your god is not because he was created.

And this is where Mormons are blind to accept what words truly mean and not what they want it to mean.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. I shared with you the scriptures from the Pearl of Great Price, one of the Mormon standard works, along with the Bible and D&C.

I believe Stephen168 and myself had already done that very well. If you want to argue with
us Catholics, you can use Scripture, but Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine & Covenants, and
the Book of Mormon (SURPRISE!) do not count as Scripture. ONLY the Old Testament &
and the New Testament can be used to prove your case, for we Christians have good rea-
son to discount your three standard works.

I don’t think that is much support either way, because we both agree He created our bodies. I would imagine the RC understanding is that at that time, both our bodies and spirits were created. The LDS understanding is that our eternal spirit was bound with our temporal body.

God Alone Is Eternal & Immortal
(link)

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

Why not ask YOU!
What parts consisting of that “about half” is wrong?

 

[iepuras]

God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

John wrote that God created “all things”. What is the Mormon definition of “all”? What is the Mormon definition of “things”? So when John said that God created all things in Mormon-ese, does that translate to “everything except matter, light and intelligence” in Christian-ese?

 

[iepuras]

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

MattofTexas has a very good understanding. So which half do you believe is correct and which half do you think is wrong? Maybe you should have the missionaries over for dinner yourself.

I know that some LDS missionaries do teach eternal progression and the ability to become a god or goddess someday. The mother of a fellow catechumen in my RCIA class was baptized LDS last year and she excitedly told her daughter about how the missionaries taught her that she can become a goddess. Fortunately for my friend, that bit of information was a huge turn off for her.

 

[taylorf]

Weak. All things that were made does not include the eternal which are without beginning.

Weak? How can you you say that after being provided plenty of biblical support. You still have yet to directly address any of the verses.

Plus there’s no need to disparage the JST, it just makes you look small.

Not disparaging but being honest…the JST is a joke of a translation.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Yes, there are some LDS that believe in an infinite regress of Gods, where there never was a “first” God. As the lyrics to the hymn “If You Could Hie to Kolob” say: “Do you think that you could ever, through all eternity, find out the generation where Gods began to be?” As we’ve already seen, various LDS leaders, manuals, etc have taught that God the Father progressed to or achieved Godhood, and that we follow His example.

Latter-day Saints believe that things such as matter and our core “intelligences” are co-eternal with God. Therefore, these things were not created by God, but have eternally existed alongside Him. He organized this pre-existing matter to create the universe. Further, He “clothed” these intelligences with spirit, though again, some part of all of us existed prior to any action of God (which is interesting in light of the belief that we are the literal spirit children of Heavenly Parents).

Perhaps some will find this article of interest:
Mormonism and God: A Philosophical Challenge to Mormonism

 

[TheIrishman]

It actually saddens me how many people say they are a member of the LDS church on this site and yet know very little about it. And then try to defend it and in so doing, distort it’s teachings. Yes, the LDS church has some strange teachings and is very different from the Catholic Church or other Christian denominations. But for the sake of the LDS church, if you don’t even know the basics, don’t try to defend it and tell people off in ignorance. It only makes you look dumb. There are quite a few LDS folks on here and even more ex-LDS who know the church and it’s teachings.

Every real member knows the answer to this thread. It’s an astounding YES.

I only ask that you defend what you KNOW, not what you think you know.

Sorry for the rant, i’m just embarrassed at how poorly a church or religion is defended sometimes.

 

[rmcmullan]

I can tell it’s going well and what I am saying is finally reaching you by how loud and unreasonable and unfounded your protests are. I am glad that you are finally understanding the Mormon theology, regardless of how reluctantly! And all the time I thought you didn’t want to encourage me!

 

[TexanKnight]

You know, I always kinda doubted that you are really LDS. I sorta always believed you were just a guy who likes to stir things up. I say this because you you come across as knowing very, very little about the LDS doctrine and how it has changed over time to try to ignore the wacky teachings of the early “prophets”.

But after this last comment, I am beginning to wonder if you are not just slightly delusional and only seeing what you want. Of course, that is how one must be to be lds, but now I see just how much you truly need our prayers.

You will be in mine

 

[Stephen168]

I can tell it’s going well and what I am saying is finally reaching you by how loud and unreasonable and unfounded your protests are. I am glad that you are finally understanding the Mormon theology, regardless of how reluctantly! And all the time I thought you didn’t want to encourage me!

I assumed my post #184 made it clear I understood Mormon theology. But as I said Mormon theology is not Christian theology, because it is contrary to Christian scripture and historically what Christianity has taught from the time of Christ. It is also clear historically that Mormon theology started with Joseph Smith not with Jesus Christ

 

[Lochias]

God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

There is nothing in Scripture to imply that. Nothing at all.

God created ALL THINGS. ALL THINGS.

A spirit, a soul, is a thing.

**ALL THINGS. **

Let’s hammer it in, one more time.

ALL THINGS.

 

[Lochias]

I can tell it’s going well and what I am saying is finally reaching you by how loud and unreasonable and unfounded your protests are. I am glad that you are finally understanding the Mormon theology, regardless of how reluctantly! And all the time I thought you didn’t want to encourage me!

 

[rmcmullan]

I assumed my post #184 made it clear I understood Mormon theology. But as I said Mormon theology is not Christian theology, because it is contrary to Christian scripture and historically what Christianity has taught from the time of Christ. It is also clear historically that Mormon theology started with Joseph Smith not with Jesus Christ

By Christian, let’s be precise here, I am assuming you mean accept the Nicean creed. In this you are correct, we do not accept it. I do appreciate your line of arguing though. I can accept an argument like “you’re different than us” much easier than “you’re different than us AND SO YOU ARE WRONG!!!”