Do Mormons Believe in the Original Sin?

[ralphinal]

Ralph,
I didn’t say anything about hell. Neither does the passage in Genesis. Nor does it infer it. I of course don’t think God wants that for anyone. Of course He doesn’t.

If God put that tree there because he wanted them to eat of it, then it means that he wanted humanity to be in a situation where some would go to hell. In other words, God set a trap from which he knew most people would not escape.

 

[ParkerD]

Christine,
I suggest you go back to an original translation, or to the Hebrew if you happen to read Hebrew. Somebody added some words and took away a key set of words in your version of the events.

But I do agree that the Savior opens the doors to Paradise.

 

[ParkerD]

If God put that tree there because he wanted them to eat of it, then it means that he wanted humanity to be in a situation where some would go to hell. In other words, God set a trap from which he knew most people would not escape.

Ralph,
Just because He wanted them to have an opportunity to choose, doesn’t make it a “trap.” Besides that, most people (only a few wouldn’t) would “escape”–that was part of the plan that included the Savior. Everyone can escape by choosing the Savior, but everyone also has their free choice. God does not give that to us angrily. He gives that to us lovingly.

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph,
Just because He wanted them to have an opportunity to choose, doesn’t make it a “trap.” Besides that, most people (only a few wouldn’t) would “escape”–that was part of the plan that included the Savior. Everyone can escape by choosing the Savior, but everyone also has their free choice. God does not give that to us angrily. He gives that to us lovingly.

Do you not see the issue? God has given us all free-will, that is correct. God wants us to choose him and not sin, that is correct. But, by WANTING Adam and Eve to sin, that means God WANTED humanity to be in a situation where most of it would go to hell.

Do you think that most people will go to heaven?

 

[mormonboy]

Do you not see the issue? God has given us all free-will, that is correct. God wants us to choose him and not sin, that is correct. But, by WANTING Adam and Eve to sin, that means God WANTED humanity to be in a situation where most of it would go to hell.

Do you think that most people will go to heaven?

I really think that such a question should not be asked. Who is to say our judgements are as just as Gods’? God does not want us to go to hell… he wanted us to decide for ourselves our own future by giving us by giving us the ability to act for ourselves.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Do you not see the issue? God has given us all free-will, that is correct. God wants us to choose him and not sin, that is correct. But, by WANTING Adam and Eve to sin, that means God WANTED humanity to be in a situation where most of it would go to hell.

Do you think that most people will go to heaven?

This is right on the money. Mormons begin at a place where everyone is NOT with God in the next life. You have to do a bunch of stuff to be with God.

Catholic belief is that God wanted all of humanity with Him to begin with. The Fall ruined God’s plan, NOT defined it (as mormons believe). Jesus restored us back to where we can be with God. THIS is the restoration of things.

Mormons believe that most everyone will go to one of three levels of heaven. There is only one level that is actually WITH God. So, in Christian terms, the other two are essentially levels of hell. What is the point of heaven if one is not in the presence of God?

To go to the highest level you have to be a baptized mormon AND married in a mormon temple. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught the marriage requirement of plural marriages. After the mormon church banned polygamy, the requirement for the highest level of heaven went to one marriage.

 

[Stephen168]

Adam and Eve were given two commandments:

1. Be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28)
2. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge (Genesis 2:16-7)

The commandments conflict: Adam and Eve were unable to have children in the Garden of Eden and were unable to keep the greater commandment that they had been given, to multiply and replenish the earth.(BoM 2 Nephi 2:22-23)

Solution to conflict: God gave Adam and Eve a higher and a lower commandment - multiply on one hand (higher), or avoid the tree of knowledge of good and evil on the other (lower). Disobeying the lower commandant allowed Adam and Eve to obey the higher commandment.

Result of the fall: The earth could be populated and Jesus would come and bring us grace.

I think according to Mormonism God wanted man to sin.

 

[ParkerD]

Do you not see the issue? God has given us all free-will, that is correct. God wants us to choose him and not sin, that is correct. But, by WANTING Adam and Eve to sin, that means God WANTED humanity to be in a situation where most of it would go to hell.\

Ralph,
You have made an inference that I disagree with strongly. God wanted Adam and Eve to have a choice whether to remain innocent, or to grow by having opposition in their lives. They could choose either choice.

You have assumed hell is a consequence for most, but I disagree completely.

Do you think that most people will go to heaven?

Yes, by your definition in that they are rescued from hell if they didn’t repent during this life. They are rescued when they choose Christ, and they can do that here in this world or in the spirit world. (See 1 Peter 3:18-22)

 

[Jerusha]

LOL!! He challenges Aquinas!!

Seriously, then, do you believe that original sin has nothing to do with pride??

 

[ParkerD]

I think according to Mormonism God wanted man to sin.

Stephen,
It is convenient for you to infer that. But look again at Genesis 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The only consequence mentioned is death. I would infer, “God wanted man to progress if the man and the woman wanted to progress, but it would mean they would have to die in the process. If they didn’t want to progress, they didn’t have to. They had a complete, unimposed choice in the matter.”

 

[ParkerD]

LOL!! He challenges Aquinas!!
Seriously, then, do you believe that original sin has nothing to do with pride??

Jerusha,
So what if I challenge Aquinas. You challenge the Bible with your inference. I don’t think Eve was being prideful. As I asked Christine, do you really think Eve thought she was going to become a god by eating a bite of fruit? Would you have, if you were in her position? Just because Satan tempted using those words, doesn’t mean she believed Satan and that became her motive. She wanted to understand “good and evil,” and progress in knowledge. That is not prideful. It is called growth.

 

[Jerusha]

As in knowlege of racial and ethnic and religious differences, and judging “not us” as inferior? Unfortunately it is impossible to escape from such thinking in moderns society, especially for the victims. I hold the perpetrators responsible. But I also have the responsibility to not hate in return. I wish I could have lived my life in total innocence, never knowing that some people hate me because of my ethnicity/ancestry.

And I read that message into the BOM. That is not how Mormons believe, as they constantly try to re-create the Nephite church, that killed many prophets. Not even mentioning the Jaredites, who carried it to its ultimate end.

Here I also think of Coriantumr and his guilt in being responsibile for 6 million deaths (Yes, two million men plus 2 million women plus at least two million children.

See, I have learned from studying it. It is just that studying it led me to make the opposite conclusion as many LDS.

Aquinas founded his discussion soundly on the Bible, developing from there.

 

[Stephen168]

Stephen,
It is convenient for you to infer that. But look again at Genesis 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The only consequence mentioned is death. I would infer, “God wanted man to progress if the man and the woman wanted to progress, but it would mean they would have to die in the process. If they didn’t want to progress, they didn’t have to. They had a complete, unimposed choice in the matter.”

Oh, OK. I thought that’s what Mormonism taught.

 

[zerinus]

One thing I am not going to do is speculate on God’s motives. He’s way beyond my reasoning abilities.

That is a dodge. It is a copout. The tree is part of the equation. You can’t formulate a theology of the Fall without taking into the consideration the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and what purpose it served. The purpose of the tree was to impart to those who eat from it the knowledge of good and evil. So what is wrong with having a knowledge of good and evil anyway? Would you want to be deprived of that knowledge? The theology of the Fall is more complex than you think. God put the tree there for a purpose. It was to give them the knowledge of good and evil.

However, I think he expected that they would obey him and live in the garden. As for Satan, he was another disobedient one, with a grudge. His motives are pretty obvious.

That is another copout. We already know that he was a “disobedient one”. But God had the power to prevent him from tempting Adam and Eve. Why did He allow him to do it?

But in any case, there was original sin, and the wages of sin is death. Christ lifted the curse with his own death on the cross.

Nobody is denying that.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

God has always wanted us to love him. In order for us to love him, we must choose to love him. Had there been no way for Adam and Eve to disobey God, they could not choose to love him by obeying him. Had there been no choice, there would be no love.

There is a catch in that one. Adam and Eve didn’t know the difference between good and evil before partaking of the fruit. It was the tree that gave them that knowledge. For example, before eating the fruit they didn’t know it was wrong to be naked. It is only by eating the fruit that they knew. So they couldn’t really tell whether what they were doing was right or wrong. So how could they show their love for God by obeying or disobeying Him, when they couldn’t tell the difference between the two anyway?

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Okay insultboy.
Let’s leave Pelagius out of it. Mormons deny the taint of Original Sin. Period. Do not lie about it any more. Each person born is guilty from that taint. Not just a sinful nature, guilty.

Then English still remains your problem. By “taint” I don’t understand “guilt”. If that is what you understand by it, then sure I disagree with it. And I didn’t deny it either. I didn’t lie about anything. I made that perfectly clear in my Blog.

So you believe that little babies are guilty because of the “taint” of Adam, as you like to put it, and they will go to hell without baptism, right? Well, at least you are honest enough to admit it, unlike most other Catholics I know.

By denial of that, Mormons deny the sanctifying grace of Christ’s ressurection.

Of course not! We do no such thing.

By denying that, Mormons deny the immaculate conception.

Yes, we do deny that. Immaculate Conception is unbiblical and a false doctrine.

zerinus

 

[CHRISTINE77]

There is a catch in that one. Adam and Eve didn’t know the difference between good and evil before partaking of the fruit. It was the tree that gave them that knowledge. For example, before eating the fruit they didn’t know it was wrong to be naked. It is only by eating the fruit that they knew. So they couldn’t really tell whether what they were doing was right or wrong. So how could they show their love for God by obeying or disobeying Him, when they couldn’t tell the difference between the two anyway?

zerinus

Hello - they heard what He said. Don’t eat that fruit. It’s like a little kid when his mom says don’t touch that stove or you will get burned. If the kid touches the stove he will get burned.

Since Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were cast out of the garden, and suffered all the repercussions that went with that. If they had obeyed God, mankind would be living in Paradise today. If the kid obeyed his mom he wouldn’t have gotten burned.

Now because of our original sin, we live in the world with all it’s sins and problems. Now the only way to the Kingdom is by following the teachings of Christ, by loving God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and by treating our neighbor as ourselves. Jesus shows us the way back to paradise (both on earth and as it is in Heaven).

 

[zerinus]

The serpent then said: “If you eat from this tree, you
yourselves will become like God.” Eve looked at the tree. The
fruit looked so beautiful and so good to eat. She wanted to
taste it very badly. She stretched out her hand and plucked a
fruit. She ate of the fruit and than gave it to Adam, who also
ate of it.

Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Immediately everything
became different for them. Everything changed. They became
afraid. The animals in the garden also became afraid. Adam
and Eve felt ashamed of themselves. They thought that it was
because they had no clothes on, so out of leaves they made
clothes for themselves.

Then they heard the voice of God in the garden and they hid
themselves. God called to Adam: “Where are you?” Adam
replied: “I heard You, but I hid myself because I have no
clothes.”

Then God asked, “Who told you that you should be ashamed
to have no clothes? Did you eat fruit from the tree of
knowledge of good and evil?” Adam answered: “The wife You
gave me offered the fruit to me and I ate it.” Eve said: “The
serpent told me that it was good, so I ate of it.”
Adam and Eve did not ask God’s forgiveness. They did not
say they were sorry, but they tried to pass their fault from one
to another.

Adam and Eve’s life in the beautiful garden was over. They
had to leave it and go out into the world and work. From that
time on, an angel with a fiery sword guarded the entrance of
the garden which was called Paradise.

Adam had to work very hard out in the world to make a living
from the earth where weeds and thistles grew as well as
crops. Because he had to work so hard, the sweat would often
pour down his face.

Eve came to know what is was to be unhappy, to be tired, and
to be sick. The children of Adam and Eve and the children of
their children and all the people that were born after them had
to live this way.

But even as God closed the garden to Adam and Eve, He
made them a promise. He promised that one day a Savior
would be born who would conquer all evil and would again
open the doors to “Paradise.” We now know that this Savior
was Jesus Christ.

This is the most distorted translation of scripture that I have ever come across. Where did you get that from?

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

If God put that tree there because he wanted them to eat of it, then it means that he wanted humanity to be in a situation where some would go to hell. In other words, God set a trap from which he knew most people would not escape.

God put the tree there because He wanted them to have a knowledge of good and evil at some point. He also wanted them to have freewill, which they could not have without a knowledge of good and evil.

zerinus

 

[ParkerD]

Jerusha,
If you consider yourself a victim, then I consider that an unfortunate choice. If you think Mormons hate the black people, you ought to visit Nigeria or Ghana where LDS temples are being planned for, since there are so many who are ready for that in their lives. I hope that it would help you change your mind, but no one is going to be able to change your mind if it is made up already. You get to choose. (You would have read that multiple times in the Book of Mormon–the matter of choice.)

Peace to you, and much love in your life.