do mormons have the holy spirit?

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam,
What an unfortunate perspective you have demonstrating your lack of understanding of the Bible and willingness to follow the kind of non-inspiration that leads to such a statement as your post #31, which bears no repeating.

If you admitted to true Mormon teaching, you would come out with the teaching of the Mormon Church that the Catholic Church distorted the Bible; therefore, you need the Mormon version of apostolic succession (prophet succession) to rescue us from apostate Christianity. I am not naive or ignorant about the official teaching of the LDS Church.

 

[2nd_Adam]

And yet, the mormons are good people who strive to do good in the world and for god. Mormons can be kind, generous, and full of charity toward others. But they are not perfect. Can the devil be a force for good in the world? I don’t think so which would make your statement a contradiction.

Will your apparent good works merit your way to salvation? Did God send His Son into this world to save good people? It is impossible for Mormons to please God… Mormons who worship God according to Mormonism are of the flesh, and not born of the Spirit of God. Therefore, it is impossible for those who adhere to the Mormon claim to have the Spirit of God dwelling in them.

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. - Apostle Paul

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ (Christians who know the Triune God through the Biblical Jesus Christ). - Paul

 

[Publisher]

God meets us where we are…we do not have to “work” to get God’s attention. His Spirit moves in every life and responds to a heart of faith…even if that faith is flawed…God still is at work in us…if He wasn’t, we’d all be in bad shape…since each of us continues to grow spriitually.

God works with us regardless of our doctrinal stance and beliefs…we may wish to exclude people from His grace because of peoples beliefs…but thankfully He does not.

 

[2nd_Adam]

God meets us where we are…we do not have to “work” to get God’s attention. His Spirit moves in every life and responds to a heart of faith…even if that faith is flawed…God still is at work in us…if He wasn’t, we’d all be in bad shape…since each of us continues to grow spriitually.

God works with us regardless of our doctrinal stance and beliefs…we may wish to exclude people from His grace because of peoples beliefs…but thankfully He does not.

Do you worship the same God as the god proclaimed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? The Mormon Church is not ignorant of the historic Christian Faith. They claim that the historic catholic faith to be apostate, and need of restoration through modern day prophets found exclusively in the LDS Church. They are bringing you a different gospel and a different Christ with their message. Are you going to receive this new revelation?

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e419fb40e21cef00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD#

Jude 1:3

Judgment on False Teachers

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

 

[Publisher]

Do you worship the same God as the god proclaimed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? The Mormon Church is not ignorant of the historic Christian Faith.

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e419fb40e21cef00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD#

Yes I do. I worship the God that IS. I may have a different understanding…I may use different doctrinal statements…BUT THE INTENT of both of our belief systems is to worship the God and Father of Jesus of Nazareth. If we MUST all hold the exact same concepts and beliefs without error…then NONE of us would ever “worship the same God”.

Personally, I believe Mormon doctrine is flawed…but then I believe Catholic doctrine and Lutheran doctrine and a host of doctrinal stances are wrong when held up and examined in the Light of Total Reality…but those human imperfections…and I include myself since we are finite and flawed humans seeking to understand in a very limited way the Eternal and Infinte Reality that underlies all creation. Most of us on this board struggle with the mathamatics it takes to balance our check books…none of us understand perfectly the Ultimate Eternal Infinte Being of God…it is beyond our scope of understanding…so even though a Mormon may have in my view a very flawed undertanding of God and describe Him in ways I simply do not believe…OUR INTENT is to worship the One God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…and it is this INTENT to do so that the Holy Spirit uses to draw us to Himself…“God looks upon the heart.” Unlike ourselves who strain every “gnat” of doctrine but swallow camels of self delusion.

Do you actually believe God in His great mercy and love would reject a faithful heart who calls to Him…even though they understand Him so imperfectly? I don’t…because I would not want to be weighed in the balance, in one side imperfect belief against God’s Perfect Knowledge.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Yes I do. I worship the God that IS. I may have a different understanding…I may use different doctrinal statements…BUT THE INTENT of both of our belief systems is to worship the God and Father of Jesus of Nazareth. If we MUST all hold the exact same concepts and beliefs without error…then NONE of us would ever “worship the same God”.

Personally, I believe Mormon doctrine is flawed…but then I believe Catholic doctrine and Lutheran doctrine and a host of doctrinal stances are wrong when held up and examined in the Light of Total Reality…but those human imperfections…and I include myself since we are finite and flawed humans seeking to understand in a very limited way the Eternal and Infinte Reality that underlies all creation. Most of us on this board struggle with the mathamatics it takes to balance our check books…none of us understand perfectly the Ultimate Eternal Infinte Being of God…it is beyond our scope of understanding…so even though a Mormon may have in my view a very flawed undertanding of God and describe Him in ways I simply do not believe…OUR INTENT is to worship the One God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…and it is this INTENT to do so that the Holy Spirit uses to draw us to Himself…“God looks upon the heart.” Unlike ourselves who strain every “gnat” of doctrine but swallow camels of self delusion.

Do you actually believe God in His great mercy and love would reject a faithful heart who calls to Him…even though they understand Him so imperfectly? I don’t…because I would not want to be weighed in the balance, in one side imperfect belief against God’s Perfect Knowledge.

I’m sorry to read your posting which is based on personal opinion and not biblical revelation. We are called to speak the truth in love for the sake of those who do not know God through the biblical Jesus Christ. We cannot rely on our flawed opinions and personal viewpoints. We must trust in God the Holy Spirit to illuminate truth through the Scirptures. All Christians know in part, but there are some things clearly revealed in Scriptures that are true to all Christians (Trinity, deity of Christ, truth of biblical revelation, etc).

How do you personally discern what is true and what is false? What is your source of ultimate truth?

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

 

[Publisher]

I’m sorry to read your posting which is based on personal opinion and not biblical revelation. We are called to speak the truth in love for the sake of those who do not know God through the biblical Jesus Christ. We canno rely on our flawed opinions and personal viewpoints. We must trust in God the Holy Spirit to illuminate truth through the Scirptures. How do you personally discern what is true and what is false? What is your source of ultimate truth?

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Don’t be sorry…there is only One God…thankfully I will stand before Him based on the merits of Christ…and I will be judged by the One who knows me best and loves me most…and thankfully, you my friend will have little to say who sits next to you in the Kingdom…that’s a blessing for both of us.

If I err, it is a human error…grace is sufficient…“Love covers a multitude of sins.”

 

[2nd_Adam]

Don’t be sorry…there is only One God…thankfully I will stand before Him based on the merits of Christ…and I will be judged by the One who knows me best and loves me most…and thankfully, you my friend will have little to say who sits next to you in the Kingdom…that’s a blessing for both of us.

Don’t avoid the issue of the thread topic. Are Mormons the misison field in need of the biblical Jesus Chrsit to be saved? Or, is the Mormon gospel true in which you need to receive their message of restoration from apostate Christianity. We are discussing Mormonism and not Quaker Christianity. How familar are you with official Mormon theology?

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e419fb40e21cef00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD

Maybe you should study the Mormon gospel before stating a position? Thereafter, let me know what source you are using to determine truth about Mormonism.

The lack of a creed or clear description of Quaker beliefs has
sometimes led to the misconception that Friends do not have beliefs or that one can believe anything and be a Friend. Most Quakers take the absence of a creed as an invitation and encouragement to exercise an extra measure of personal responsibility for the understanding and articulation of Quaker faith. Rather than rely on priests or professional theologians, each believer is encouraged to take seriously the personal disciplines associated with spiritual growth. Out of lives of reflection, prayer, faithfulness, and service flow the statements of belief, both in word and in deed.

–from Pacific Yearly Meeting Faith and Practice

quakerinfo.org/quakerism/beliefs.html

 

[Publisher]

Don’t avoid the issue of the thread topic. Are Mormons the misison field in need of the biblical Jesus Chrsit to be saved? Or, is the Mormon gospel true in which you need to receive their message of restoration from apostate Christianity. We are discussing Mormonism and not Quaker Christianity.

Friend, we all are in need of the “biblical Jesus Christ”…God’s work in in bringing us to the knowlege of Truth…and He works with what He has and He uses our repsonses…no matter how flawed and imperfect an understanding we have.

When Jesus is recoreded in Matthew speaking of the last judgement…he didn’t ask what ones doctrinal statement was…or what one believed about the Trinity…he wanted answers to how we treated one another…how we responded to their needs…which truly was responding to His needs…“I was hungry…I was thirsty…I was alone…”

We are not discussing “Mormonism” or “Quakerism” or “Catholicism”…we are discussing the astounding love of God as He moves in love and mercy in repsonse to those who seek Him…even though they seek Him imperfectly and with limited or flawed knowledge…He will respond to a heart moved by faith…we might not like it…and we might think that “They” don’t deserve His mercy and grace because “They” don’t believe like us…that’s God’s work to do…not mine…or yours I’d daresay…He responds to a heart in need that calls to Him…no matter how imperfectly worded or imagined that call may be.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Friend, we all are in need of the “biblical Jesus Christ”…God’s work in in bringing us to the knowlege of Truth…and He works with what He has and He uses our repsonses…no matter how flawed and imperfect an understanding we have.

When Jesus is recoreded in Matthew speaking of the last judgement…he didn’t ask what ones doctrinal statement was…or what one believed about the Trinity…he wanted answers to how we treated one another…how we responded to their needs…which truly was responding to His needs…“I was hungry…I was thirsty…I was alone…”

We are not discussing “Mormonism” or “Quakerism” or “Catholicism”…we are discussing the astounding love of God as He moves in love and mercy in repsonse to those who seek Him…even though they seek Him imperfectly and with limited or flawed knowledge…He will respond to a heart moved by faith…we might not like it…and we might think that “They” don’t deserve His mercy and grace because “They” don’t believe like us…that’s God’s work to do…not mine…or yours I’d daresay…He responds to a heart in need to calls to Him…no matter how imperfectly worded or imagined that call may be.

We are discussing Mormonism. The thread topic is “Do Mormons have the Holy Spirit”? God has revealed Himself through the person of Jesus Christ in the Holy Scirptures. He is not without special revelation in which mankind can create God in a subective manner in which every person wants to make him to be. When we worship God in a subjective manner apart from biblical revelation, then we are woshipping a man made idol which is sin. I do not believe in a universal God in which there are many paths to him. God has spoken through His Son by the Spirit through the illumination of the Word of God. Please let me understand how you personally determine truth from error. The Mormon Jesus, the Hindu Jesus, and the Muslim Jesus is not the Jesus worshipped by Christians.

Matthew 24:24

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

 

[Publisher]

Maybe you should study the Mormon gospel before stating a position?[/B] Thereafter, let me know what source you are using to determine truth about Mormonism.

Does reading the “Book of Mormon”, “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith”, “Mormon Doctrine”, “Doctrine and Covenants”, “Pearl of Great Price”, “Gospel Doctrine”, “No Man Knows My History”, “Mormon Enigma”, “Rough Stone Rolling”, to name a few, count?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Does reading the “Book of Mormon”, “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith”, “Mormon Doctrine”, “Doctrine and Covenants”, “Pearl of Great Price”, “Gospel Doctrine”, “No Man Knows My History”, “Mormon Enigma”, “Rough Stone Rolling”, to name a few, count?

So, what is your conclusion about the Mormon gospel? Is it true or is it false? is Joseph Smith a prophet from God or is he a servant of Satan?

2 Corinthians 11

Paul and the False Apostles

11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.

7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God’s gospel to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied my need. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!

12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

 

[Publisher]

We are discussing Mormonism. The thread topic is “Do Mormons have the Holy Spirit”? God has revealed Himself through the person of Jesus Christ in the Holy Scirptures. He is not without special revelation in which mankind can create God in a subective manner in which every person wants to make him to be. When we worship God in a subjective manner apart from biblical revelation, then we are woshipping a man made idol which is sin. I do not believe in a universal God in which there are many paths to him. God has spoken through His Son by the Spirit through the illumination of the Word of God. Please let me understand how you personally determine truth from error. The Mormon Jesus, the Hindu Jesus, and the Muslim Jesus is not the Jesus worshipped by Christians.

The question you asked was “Do Mormons have the Holy Spirit?” Yes, they do as the Holy Spirit of God moves in hearts of faith…no matter how flawed that faith may be. God does not judge us on our “doctrinal” beliefs…but on how well we conform to the Image of His Son in our dealings with each other.

I do not dictate to God whom He responds to and to whom He loves. The Light of Christ is within each and every heart…God goes before us in grace…prevenient grace…to prepare hearts to receive Him…perfect knowledge of doctrinal issues do not prevent the work and movement of His Holy Spirit in hearts that call to Him in faith…no matter how imperfect that faith may be.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The question you asked was “Do Mormons have the Holy Spirit?” Yes, they do as the Holy Spirit of God moves in hearts of faith…no matter how flawed that faith may be. God does not judge us on our “doctrinal” beliefs…but on how well we conform to the Image of His Son in our dealings with each other.

I do not dictate to God whom He responds to and to whom He loves. The Light of Christ is within each and every heart…God goes before us in grace…prevenient grace…to prepare hearts to receive Him…perfect knowledge of doctrinal issues do not prevent the work and movement of His Holy Spirit in hearts that call to Him in faith…no matter how imperfect that faith may be.

Please answer these simple questions. Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth. Satan is the father of lies.

So, what is your conclusion about the Mormon gospel? Is it true or is it false? is Joseph Smith a prophet from God or is he a servant of Satan?

John 8:24

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

 

[Publisher]

I believe Joseph Smith was wrong. I may even believe he was a charlatan…but what I beleive about Joseph Smith has nothing to do with an individual Mormon’s experience with God. Even though I beleive Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God…doesn’t mean God Himself will not respond in love and mercy to someone who has gleened even a small truth of the gospel from Mormon belief and books.

The Book of Mormon speaks of grace and forgiveness and contains truth…IT CONTAINS TRUTH, it points to the Source of Truth…so does the Bible…God does not respond to us in love and mercy based on what we believe about a book or a doctine…He responds to a heart in need of mercy when faith is present…no matter how flawed that faith may be…it is God who does the work for us…through grace by faith.

 

[Publisher]

Please answer these simple questions. Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth. Satan is the father of lies.

John 8:24

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Most assuredly He is full fo Grace and Truth. And this God of Grace and Truth can work within us IN SPITE of ourselves and our own “through a glass darkly” beliefs…you and I are proof of that.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I believe Joseph Smith was wrong. I may even believe he was a charlatan…but what I beleive about Joseph Smith has nothing to do with an individual Mormon’s experience with God. Even though I beleive Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God…doesn’t mean God Himself will not respond in love and mercy to someone who has gleened even a small truth of the gospel from Mormon belief and books.

The Book of Mormon speaks of grace and forgiveness and contains truth…IT CONTAINS TRUTH, it points to the Source of Truth…so does the Bible…God does not respond to us in love and mercy based on what we believe about a book or a doctine…He responds to a heart in need of mercy when faith is present…no matter how flawed that faith may be…it is God who does the work for us…through grace by faith.

Please don’t avoid my questions to you. Could you please just answer them?

So, what is your conclusion about the Mormon gospel? Is it true or is it false?

 

[Publisher]

Please don’t avoid my questions to you. Could you please just answer them?

The “Mormon gospel” with it’s rituals and washings and sealings is wrong. And while many other churches have rituals and washings and rites and ceremonies they believe are necessary to salvation…doesn’t mean they are.

God works with us where we are. God’s love and grace are limitless and boundless…a true Mormon doctrine states…“This is the work of God…to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man.”…scripture we all believe in…“God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.”…“God was in Christ, reconcilling the world to Himself.”

God is the lover, we are the beloved…false doctrine does not preclude God working in hearts that call to Him in faith…He responds to whom He responds to…and we have little to say about it…He is Soverign…I may not find in the words Mormons use to explain their beliefs “truth”. I am reminded of the story of Jesus who told of two men who went to the temple to pray…"God I thank you I am not like that sinner over there. I pray, I give alms, I tithe…I believe correctly(a paraphrase). But the publican would not even raise his eyes to heaven and said “God be merciful to me, a sinner. I tell you the truth, it was he who left justified that day.”…I have met Mormons who "would not even raise their eyes toward heaven but said “God be merciful to me a sinner.”…when “good” Christians would dictate to God whom He can forgive…I don’t wish to make that mistake…God can save Quakers and Catholics along with Mormons…imagine that!

 

[2nd_Adam]

The “Mormon gospel” with it’s rituals and washings and sealings is wrong. And while many other churches have rituals and washings and rites and ceremonies they believe are necessary to salvation…doesn’t mean they are.

God works with us where we are. God’s love and grace are limitless and boundless…a true Mormon doctrine states…“This is the work of God…to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man.”…scripture we all believe in…“God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.”…“God was in Christ, reconcilling the world to Himself.”

God is the lover, we are the beloved…false doctrine does not preclude God working in hearts that call to Him in faith…He responds to whom He responds to…and we have little to say about it…He is Soverign…I may not find in the words Mormons use to explain their beliefs “truth”. I am reminded of the story of Jesus who told of two men who went to the temple to pray…"God I thank you I am not like that sinner over there. I pray, I give alms, I tithe…I believe correctly(a paraphrase). But the publican would not even raise his eyes to heaven and said “God be merciful to me, a sinner. I tell you the truth, it was he who left justified that day.”…I have met Mormons who "would not even raise their eyes toward heaven but said “God be merciful to me a sinner.”…when “good” Christians would dictate to God whom He can forgive…I don’t wish to make that mistake…God can save Quakers and Catholics along with Mormons…imagine that!

According to biblical revelation, a wrong gospel is a damnable error which does not save sinners.

No Other Gospel

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant [2] of Christ. - Gal 1

 

[Publisher]

According to biblical revelation, a wrong gospel is a damnable error which does not save sinners.

No Other Gospel

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant [2] of Christ. - Gal 1

In my own limited knowledge of the “saving gospel”…I say Paul was speaking of a “gospel” based on works of the Law…not the gospel message of salvation by “grace through faith”.

In as far as a Mormon person is able to respond in faith toward God’s offer of unmerrited grace, they are within the realm of the “saving gospel.”…no matter if one is Catholic, Quaker, Methodist or Orthodox…we are all saved by “grace though faith”…all else is fluff.

While I may have a very limited understanding of the deep things of the Spirit…it is He that I cling to and trust…from what little I know of the love and mercy of God toward sinners…I have no personal experience nor have I read anything in scripture which would lead me to believe God would reject anyone who calls upon His Name for mercy.