Do most Protestants know that the rapture was made in the 18th century?

[MagdalenaRita]

Oompf!

? So, as I said, this is my experience in the mainline denominations in my area. No rapture. There are probably individuals in those denominations who believe it though, just because the Left Behind books and movies made it so popular.

I live in a Catholic minority area, and it seems like every other church has at least one bible study devoted to “The Rapture.

Catholic churches should not be doing Bible studies on the protestant rapture theology unless they are explaining it’s error.Not sure if that is what you meant. It would also be very dangerous for a Catholic to attend a non Catholic Bible study in which there is preaching of the rapture or the snatching away of some while others are left behind for God’s wrath.

I understand not wanting to lie and not being able to quickly come up with a reason why you can’t attend.

Amazingly, not one has been connected with an evangelical group, and some are extremely hep on preparing and buying long-lasting rations—with all the accompanying worry and anxiety

So, either they believe in either mid tribulation or post tribulation rapture or something else because, and again from my experience, most that believe in the rapture believe they will be taken out before the great tribulation, so preparing and storing food would maybe be for those “left behind”. but it would not be for themselves because they believe they will be gone.

On the other hand, there are Catholics who believe there will be a great chastisement and so prepare for that with emergency preparedness type activity but there is no rapture or being taken out before hand.

There are also those who believe a type of famine is coming and are preparing but it also has nothing to do with the rapture.

The Rapture | Catholic Answers Tract

 

[SaberBob]

I highly recommend to all David Currie ( Catholic convert, former Dispensationist minister ) books Rapture: the End Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind & What Did Jesus Really Say About the End of the World

 

[Minks]

@MagdalenaRita

My! Surely you’ve misunderstood me!

The “Oompf!” (imagine a surprise shove from behind me) followed by my statement that “I once agreed with you, but I fear I’ve been mistaken,” meant simply that. I wasn’t saying that I disputed your assessment. I was saying that I had believed the same about my area until I’d attended some bible studies here.

I’m truly sorry that my wording wasn’t clear. This section of the country is in a Catholic minority area, as I stated. The counties around here, unless they contain a larger city, are lucky to have one Catholic Church in the county seat towns, so 35-50 miles between Catholic Churches.

I honestly can’t imagine why any Catholic Church anywhere would study “The Rapture,” unless to give attendees more ammunition in explaining our point of view when pressed, but why would I have wanted to avoid a Catholic group?

I was only continuing the conversation about Protestant Rapture beliefs, not disagreeing with what you’ve observed in your area; I simply related what I’ve observed in my area. The “every other church” comment had to do with Protestant churches, not Catholic ones. I even mentioned that not one of them was Evangelical, so they were of other denominations.

I’m well aware of the danger in scriptural misinterpretation planting doubts in those who aren’t confident in their beliefs—and even in those who are. In fact, on another recent thread, I cautioned against attending any Bible Study unless led by a priest or deacon, and you agreed with me. I haven’t the knowledge of a priest or deacon, but I am confident that these other attendees, some of whom I’ve known for more than seventy years, cannot think of anything that would shake my fairh.

I’ll try to to write more clearly in the future—or maybe just be content with reading.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I’ll try to to write more clearly in the future—or maybe just be content with reading.

No no no, don’t be content with just reading. I think I definitely misunderstood you. I think I thought you were saying it was mostly Catholic churches. I understand a Catholic minority. When visiting my in-laws in a particular area in the southern area of the midwest there are very few Catholic churches. They are very few and far between and if there is one, no daily Mass and only one Sunday Mass very early in the morning.

I thought Oompf was an acronym for something. lol

I was only continuing the conversation about Protestant Rapture beliefs, not disagreeing with what you’ve observed in your area; I simply related what I’ve observed in my area. The “every other church” comment had to do with Protestant churches, not Catholic ones. I even mentioned that not one of them was Evangelical, so they were of other denominations.

Completely understand. Sometimes I think I just read things wrong.

 

[mcq72]

Surely there was ebb and flow of faith during the OT, but never a centuries-long age where a saving faith was unattainable

So improper view of end times, or Mariology beyond virgin birth, or or other Protestant or Orthodox difference block saving faith?

 

[ltwin]

Based on my observation I notice that most protestants act like the rapture was biblical teaching for many centuries but never note or state that it was taught in the 18th century. Are most of them aware that it was made in that century?

While many Protestants do believe in a premillenial rapture of the church, it’s certainly not all Protestants. The ones that do believe it probably don’t really think about when the theology was first articulated. What concerns them would be is it Scriptural, and many believe it is.

I grew up in a church that taught a pre-tribulation rapture, and I just assumed it was Scriptural until I was in college and started reading more critical material. My conclusion is that there isn’t much biblical support for it, but most Protestants in the pews who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture have probably not studied in the Scriptural material thoroughly. They’ve likely just absorbed what was taught in the pulpit.

 

[NostalgicBaptist]

Hi, tgGodsway, the pre-trib rapture position is held by many I know, but I’m not convinced. Like you, I think Scripture teaches a pre-wrath rapture instead. I believe that the pretribbers have tried to shoehorn their eschatology onto the text. However, I hope that I’m wrong and that the pretribbers are right because I don’t want my family and I to endure the Great Tribulation, So I’m expecting pre-wrath but hoping for pre-trib!

 

[VeryBlessed]

So improper view of end times, or Mariology beyond virgin birth, or or other Protestant or Orthodox difference block saving faith?

Oh no, I didn’t at all mean that. I think God made the important or essential things clear. I just mistrust newly discovered theological positions under the opinion that God cares desperately and deeply that we have access to truth that is at once simple enough to be grasped by a child, and yet also so profound that it’s depths are beyond the most vigorous mind.

In my experience, those who hold to a Rapture belief will also claim that Christendom fell into apostasy (the clear implication being that none had a saving faith) for some thousand-plus years before the reformation. Whether we are discussing Major or minor truths, I hold to the belief that God is desperately committed to leading each generation of us into as much truth as we (as individuals) will dare to receive from him.

 

[mcq72]

my experience, those who hold to a Rapture belief will also claim that Christendom fell into apostasy

I thought CC teaches a rapture of sorts also.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

It does, just not the same way. The way I understand it, is the Church teaches the rapture will happen just before the return of Christ, at the very end, not a some taken from the earth while others are left behind theory.
The Church rarely uses the word rapture.

 

[mcq72]

It does, just not the same way. The way I understand it, is the Church teaches the rapture will happen just before the return of Christ, at the very end, not a some taken from the earth while others are left behind theory.
The Church rarely uses the word rapture.

So everybody gets raptured at same time? So what about Jesus saying one is taken and one left behind…how is that interpreted?

AS to the word itself I thought it is used in Vulgate, from Jerome, or at least has its root source .

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So everybody gets raptured at same time?

Yes, at the Second Coming.

So what about Jesus saying one is taken and one left behind…how is that interpreted?

In Luke the apostles ask where those who are taken out are going, he tells them where the vultures are. Those left behind will be rewarded as seen in Matthew 24.

AS to the word itself I thought it is used in Vulgate, from Jerome, or at least has its root source .

That could be. I’m not sure but I understand that they just do not use the word in conversation or preaching because it has come to have its own meaning, which would be confusing. I heard a priest use it the other day, but he was sure to explain he was speaking of Christ’s second coming.l

 

[mcq72]

Those left behind will be rewarded as seen in Matthew 24.

Dont see any scripture in Matt 24 to those left behind…as to the righteous elect, only see they will be gathered from everywhere and another verse that they shall rule.

But understand that those taken apparently is to demise…weird…does God slaughter all unsaved?.. is it like Revelation 19

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Dont see any scripture in Matt 24 to those left behind…as to the righteous elect, only see they will be gathered from everywhere and another verse that they shall rule

So, the way I understood it is that verses 45 - 51 is kind of more of a clarification of the faithful and unfaithful and those who are faithful will be blessed and set over all his possessions while the unfaithful will be sent to where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

does God slaughter all unsaved?

I don’t believe so, I believe they are just sent to eternal punishment.

 

[mcq72]

I don’t believe so, I believe they are just sent to eternal punishment.

No, i think that is the inference, that those “taken” go where the eagles are and eagles go where carcasses are… i quickly looked at Revelation and God wipes out the wicked (armies) that were set out against God’s people.

 

[pnewton]

So everybody gets raptured at same time? So what about Jesus saying one is taken and one left behind…how is that interpreted?

I heard that verse used to describe the rapture most of my life. But look at what it really says:

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This will be like the time of Noah where some are taken away. But who was taken away by the flood? It was the evil people, and sense they will go where the carcasses are, using this as a rapture passage doesn’t fly. Taken away by disaster where the dead are? We would want to be “left behind.”

 

[mcq72]

This will be like the time of Noah where some are taken away. But who was taken away by the flood? It was the evil people, and sense they will go where the carcasses are, using this as a rapture passage doesn’t fly. Taken away by disaster where the dead are? We would want to be “left behind.”

Yes, I am beginning to see that…but then are there two raptures? Was Paul lucid when he wrote we will be caught up in the air to meet Him, or when we are told all elect is gathered from four corners of earth and the heavens?

 

[Minks]

MagdalenaRita:

I don’t believe so, I believe they are just sent to eternal punishment.

No, i think that is the inference, that those “taken” go where the eagles are and eagles go where carcasses are… i quickly looked at Revelation and God wipes out the wicked (armies) that were set out against God’s people.

@mcq72

In this vicinity, only buzzards, never eagles, go after carcasses.

 

[mcq72]

Same family?..but i know what you mean …a few times eagles are used positively … pretty sure end times not good though

but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles;

 

[pnewton]

Perhaps it is simply looking at the same event from two points of view, one from the view of those who are evil, the other from the point of those who are faithful. I would not take the location or method too literally.