Do most women TRULY appreciate good men?

[MCGar]

**
MCGar:**

I did not imply that “everyone else in a relationship is putting up with behavior from ‘bad’ men.” I’m certain that there are men who are putting up with behavior from “bad” women, and you all are from time to time tolerating bad behavior from your *good *partners.

Ok, then I totally misunderstood

Glad you happy folks can do it without questioning it.

Whoever started this thread must have done so with eyes wide open, because it is an engraved invitation to express bitterness, resentment, failure, despondency, anger. These are legitimate feelings which fuel the posts, so please don’t try to put the lid on them. In order for the whole issue to be understood, the whole issue has to be examined.

marietta

I’m not trying to put a lid on expressions of bitterness, but I think it’s ok if I note my observation of bitterness and call it for what it is.

I do know that I used to let alot of bitternes and resentment fuel my actions and thoughts until I finally understood that it never got me anywhere at all. I only spiralled down into a pit.
So I keep my eyes open more and acknowledge what I see as those types of feelings so that I won’t fall into the trap of being influenced by them. Maybe other people on this thread might want to avoid following into the path of thinking with bitterness and resentment as a focal point. And it might help them to be able to recognize it.

Alot of different people read these threads and I just remember myself as a young teen prone to be influenced by this type of thinking without even knowing it. So I don’t think there is anything wrong with me pointing out what I see so others might be more aware of it.

 

[rusty20]

I’m not trying to be hostile here, but…

Marietta,

You seem to think that most women are ‘putting up with’ the ‘condescending(?)’ actions of the men they are with. you seem to believe that you are one of the only (perhaps THE only) women who have broken free of the horrific troubles a man in your life causes. Consequently, you live under the assumption that all men are out to get you and simply exist to cause you tremendous heartache, all the while demanding complete servitude from you.

This is just not true. I understand that you have had bad experiences in your life. I have included you in my prayers recently. However, it seems that you have given up all hope that someone of the opposite sex may be a genuinely good person. your experiences, which I understand are extremely traumatic, are not representative in any way of men generally.

It’s hard to be a devout Catholic in this world, but there are those of us who strive to be every day. nobody is perfect, and to expect perfection in anyone is unwise at the least. We all have our imperfections, but that doesn’t mean we will all treat you the way your former SO(s) have.

I will keep you in my prayers, and I hope you can learn that there are men out there whose existance is completed through their love of God. I pray that one day you meet one of these men, Marietta.

To the thread:

I think in today’s day and age, Catholics just have to avoid the cultural and societal cycle of dating. You have to go about relationships in a way that emphasizes your religious nature and what you are looking for in a potential spouse. This would mean that good men should be dating good women, and vice versa.

Obviously, society teaches us otherwise. However, this obsession over the problems of good and bad partners is easily avoidable by simply knowing what you, as an individual, want in a relationship. If you want a good woman, and are already a good man, your quest will not be too difficult, and you won’t settle for less than you deserve.

God Bless and Good Luck to all singles in their quests!

 

[marietta]

rusty20:

I had a therapist in Texas for many years who told me that my “picker was broke”; in other words, I was constitutionally incapable of choosing a man who would be ready, willing and able to maintain (and endure) a relationship of any kind with me. She knew me well - she had been seeing me regularly for five years, so her assessment was not off the cuff. While under her care I went through a quite rancorous divorce and, six years later, began seeing a man who was the right guy on the outside. Although this therapist was now no longer treating me, I continued on with a psychologist whom she recommended. He and I had a lovely therapeutic relationship and I learned much from him. I did not, however, learn to dilute my expectations where male/female relationships were concerned. After a disastrous five-year, long-distance exercise in absolute chaos, I made a conscious decision to bow out of the game. Rather than going through yet another miserable experience with a man who was unsuited for me (read: attractive to me), I simply quit.

My posts have very little to do with the possibilities. When I examine possibilities I see planned resentments, and so in fairness to all parties possibly involved, I refuse to entertain any notion of closeness with any man. It would serve neither of us. My mind has worked this way for years, so I hope you will pardon me if I read about people’s "DH"s and "DW"s with more than a pinch of cynicism.

I don’t think that every man is out to get me. I would hope that I’m doing such a fantastic job of pursuing self-imposed exile that *no *man is out to get me. And due respect, rusty20, you do not know the motives of the men I come in contact with, so please don’t make any presumptions. Nor have I " . . given up all hope that someone of the opposite sex may be a genuinely good person." I’m confident that there are many men out there who are genuinely good people. And I’m equally confident that I just don’t care anymore.

marietta

 

[whatevergirl]

marietta–two things…please accept my cyber hug here:console: , as trite as it might be…I do know what you feel. I dated an abusive guy before meeting my husband–it hurt me for a long time, and tainted my views on men, often. Coupled with my fear of loss from the deaths of my parents as a kid–I know somewhat, the pain you speak of. You speak like someone who is still, in great pain.

second…i love the pic in your signature. it always makes me smile…

 

[marietta]

(whatevergirl:

The picture comes from icanhascheezburger.com, where people match quotes to funny pictures of cats. On “cheezburger”, there is a “ceiling cat” and a “basement cat” (God and Satan). Actually, I think one of the quotes attributed to this particular cat named it “Agnostic Cat”, who was wondering if God truly does exist.
marietta)*

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Ah, to die of moral indignation…Not an altogether bad way to go, I dare say, for surely there are worse. People have, after all, given up their lives for more ridiculous persuits than perfection.

But for jman507’s last post, I say that, "Yes, the standard for good must be perfection, our ideal must be Christ. If we hold goodness to be anything less, well, then…! (I had a point, I swear)

Possibly you knew that wasn’t what I meant.

 

[jman507]

Ah, to die of moral indignation…Not an altogether bad way to go, I dare say, for surely there are worse. People have, after all, given up their lives for more ridiculous persuits than perfection.

But for jman507’s last post, I say that, "Yes, the standard for good must be perfection, our ideal must be Christ. If we hold goodness to be anything less, well, then…! (I had a point, I swear)

I would hold that the standard of Good is perfection, but good can be used as a relative term. I would not want to have to say that everyone is a bad person; fallen, but not bad. If you have someone who is trying to be faithful. At times the person may fall, but gets back up and tries again, I would like to call that person good, relative to a person who doesn’t care, and has no problem with committing any sin. Relative to the Good, we are all stained by sin, and need the grace of God. Good can be a vague term, and the exact definition is determined by the context.

 

[Belgarion]

Psh. What good men?

You know the ones

 

[dakotagirl]

You know the ones

 

[Belgarion]

Ahem, anyways…

Um, to make a horrible attempt at staying on topic, I’ll say that men can have a lack of appreciation as well.

But in my personal experience, I’ve seen more women go for “the bad boy” (because of a lack of appreciation for those good, nice guys) than I’ve seen guys go for the wrong kind of girl.

see…I told you it was horrible

 

[marietta]

But in my personal experience, I’ve seen more women go for “the bad boy” (because of a lack of appreciation for those good, nice guys) than I’ve seen guys go for the wrong kind of girl.

A woman who subscribes to the bad boy mystique might find, to her dismay, that he was not made for this world in this time and he dies a premature death (I have lost a few: drug overdose, car wreck, motorcycle wreck, suicide). I’ve always been drawn to the bad boy because I’ve lived my life coloring outside the lines. I was enriched, affirmed, alive.

A man who is attracted to “the wrong kind of girl” does so because he sees her as someone who will explore the depths of his own depravity with him. Then he can marry up.

The man I married was an audio engineer in New York City when I met him in 1977. He was brilliant on the machines, he could make something out of nothing. He was precise. He heard and appreciated art a molecular level.

Two years after we were married he went back to being a math professor. YUCK.

Sadly, what we want and what we need are often two different things.

marietta

 

[udoc89]

What would anyone think of a woman who does not want a “good man”, a dreadful man, or any man? What of the woman who has had a gut full of negative experiences and chooses to live quietly alone? I can’t think of anything I would rather be than alone.

marietta

Have you read Sheldon Vanauken’s books, Marietta? He chose a single life after his wife died and got royally sick of the attempts of his friends to marry him off again.

I have a friend who has been married four times and simply cannot function without a man. It seems to me that yours is the better way. Living quietly alone sounds infinitely preferable to her brand of serial monogamy.

 

[marietta]

udoc89:

I have not read any of Seldon Vanauken’s works, but I did look him up on amazon.com and read an excerpt from “A Severe Mercy”, which piqued my interest. Next payday I will order the book and explore another’s solo journey. Good to know I’m not alone.

Thanks for the heads-up.

marietta

 

[Morwenna]

Some men are not nice but they watch nice guys all the time to learn to imitate them to attract women. They reveal what they are really like when it’s hard to get out.

True. Hideously, frighteningly true.

 

[anthony022071]

A man who is attracted to “the wrong kind of girl” does so because he sees her as someone who will explore the depths of his own depravity with him. Then he can marry up.

Bad girls can be extremely fascinating to us males,and they know it and play off of it. They cause strongly conflicting and contradictory feelings in males. They’re a challenge.
A woman who is beautiful,charismatic,proud and wanton is infuriating and irresistable.
Also,the male may have a desire to try to “save” her from her ways.

 

[chevalier]

I’m going to be a spoilsport, but isn’t being attracted to a woman who’s attracted to “bad guys” somewhat close to being attracted to “bad girls”? Being attracted to “bad guys” doesn’t make one a “bad girl”, but it seems to be a step in the “bad” direction. And the same goes the other way round. So if a man complains that his chosen one is attracted to the wrong guys, well, shouldn’t he wonder that perhaps he’s attracted to the wrong women?

 

[John_AH]

I’m going to be a spoilsport, but isn’t being attracted to a woman who’s attracted to “bad guys” somewhat close to being attracted to “bad girls”? Being attracted to “bad guys” doesn’t make one a “bad girl”, but it seems to be a step in the “bad” direction. And the same goes the other way round. So if a man complains that his chosen one is attracted to the wrong guys, well, shouldn’t he wonder that perhaps he’s attracted to the wrong women?

Chevalier,
I was thinking of the same thing. I think “bad” men and women tend pick “bad” person. However I don’t think it is necessarily because they are “bad” but like a bad habit. They are looking for the wrong qualities.

It goes along another idea I’m working on. We all know there are no purely evil people out there. Most people hurt each other (perceived evil or bad will) out of ignorance. In others they don’t know how to Love correctly. The same could hold true for people “trying” to Love correctly in looking for their spouse. They think they know best for themselves but really they are going off what they learned from society or more than likely what they learned from perceived bad parents. Is there a way to break the cycle? Of course! That is what the church stands for; truth The real truth in how to love correctly. It opens our eyes to good (or at least tries) men and women.

One more little tid-bit I’ve been noticing; selective love. We open our eyes to what we want to see. We have to open our eyes to all people around us if we want to find the diamond in the rough. In other words, we could be good in our ministries but if we don’t let God guide us to our spouses then we are going to keep choosing the lousy ones. He also tries to fix our major problems first so we can become that great potential spouse.

God Bless,
John

 

[whatevergirl]

*I am guilty of dating bad boy types…too many, sadly. Bad boy ranging from just exterior ‘James Dean’ qualities, to really bad boy types, like abusers.

For me, early on in college, I didn’t know that I shouldn’t be dating that much–nor did I realize God’s plans for me. And that I needed to ask His advice. When I started going to church again, and praying…asking God to place the right man in my path…my wonderful husband came along…(and he was not bad boy type, which I was accustomed to, so I didn’t like God’s pick for me right away)

I was a ‘good’ girl type…I admit I some moments of drinking too much, but I was chaste…and knew that I was saving myself for my someday husband. That said, I found ‘bad boys’ to be sexy…to a degree. Mysterious. Plus, I grew up with someone who put me down a lot, and I think for many women–they gravitate to what they had during their childhood…sadly. Not all–but many.

For me, I am grateful I gave my husband a chance…and we are still together.

Just wanted to share my story with this, because it’s important to note that women are not seeking bad men…they are often choosing them not realizing there is a better choice. They want to save the bad boy from a bad life…bad choices. Bad boys can sometimes be sexy, and challenging, too…just like the poster who said that very same thing about women. *

 

[marietta]

Sometimes the “better choice” is no choice: I pray that God will not put any kind of man, good or bad, in my path, because rehashing all the childhood stuff and having the sins of the father fall onto the companion du jour is a total drag. I have been through innumerable therapists since I was 13 years of age and I have to say, there are some hurts, some experiences, some deceits that can never be washed away no matter how many mental, emotional, spiritual exercises are applied to them. I have done my time riding above the pain of living with a partner; now it’s time for me to relinquish all that unnecessary responsibility and live alone. It’s not a bad deal, really. Nobody to laugh at my jokes, but no love letters in the mail from some tart, either.

I pray for God to remove my fear and direct my attention to what He would have me be. If a man enters the picture, we’re going to have to renegotiate.

marietta

 

[chevalier]

Chevalier,
I was thinking of the same thing. I think “bad” men and women tend pick “bad” person. However I don’t think it is necessarily because they are “bad” but like a bad habit. They are looking for the wrong qualities.

Or sometimes they’re looking for quite all right qualities but see them in a bad light. Say, nothing wrong with looking for a manly man. It’s just that barking at people and being pushy doesn’t make manly. Sometimes women also see through a facade, behind which a sensitive insecure person hides. Or they see something which puts them off in an all-round nice guy. It’s hard to say.

If there is an actual attraction to bad boy qualities, then I’d say it’s a bit of a “dark side” thing. It comes in degrees. Sometimes a woman likes a bit of a dark attitude. Well, show me a guy who was always the cop when playing as a child. Or in the younger generation - one who always played the good character or the good party in computer games. I wouldn’t make too much out of that. Now it’s a different story when humour and playing tough turns into actual hurting people or an actual dysfunction.

So if we view it all on the spectrum of dysfunction, having a sizeable collection of “bad guy” or “bad girl” qualities would be a major dysfunction, but finding those qualities attractive could be somewhat of a dysfunction and finding them desirable would already be a dysfunction. Not as serious as actually having such qualities, but already a dysfunction.

One more little tid-bit I’ve been noticing; selective love. We open our eyes to what we want to see. We have to open our eyes to all people around us if we want to find the diamond in the rough. In other words, we could be good in our ministries but if we don’t let God guide us to our spouses then we are going to keep choosing the lousy ones. He also tries to fix our major problems first so we can become that great potential spouse.

Well, they might actually be not so lousy, but actually the right person for someone who will be the right person for them. We’ve heard a lot of stories about people getting their act straight under the right influence, haven’t we? But we aren’t always the right influence. For us then, perhaps it won’t work. For someone else it might.

Another problem with selective vision is not so much ignoring red flags, as simply not allowing people to be themselves but rather seeing them for what we choose to see them as, instead of what is there. We sometimes fall in love with images and those images aren’t the live people they represent. Then we are irated or sad when the person doesn’t match the image. But I would say it’s hard to love the person, not the image.