Do most women TRULY appreciate good men?

[Trishie]

I think I’d carefully avoid marrying a cynical man. He couldn’t accept love. He’d be unable to recognise it! I wouldn’t want to engage in that kind of pain. Maybe the dynamics some of the men suggested partly have a cultural basis? Surely not? I don’t see it around here, not the husband baiting stuff.

 

[Emmanuel111]

Whoever you chose you have to live with it. If you chose the wrong one fine just accept the burdens and suffering in order to accept GOD. Let GOD do something about your problem.

 

[Layman]

Gets his coat and heads for the pub ]

 

[Trishie]

Good exit line! I’m amused!

Now where did I put that chocolate bar!

 

[jman507]

Remember to always be careful about making things sound like the absolute path. In general prudence moderation is usually key. Be careful of what you wish. If you propose that a man or woman should do this, this, and that; you could get it in excess and realize the short comings of it.

Then you get some vague terms like master and partner. The problem is what one person thinks may not be well communicated to another. One person is thinking it means one thing, and the other has a different subtly idea. Perhaps the general term I prefer is master-servant. Master sounds like a good thing, servant sounds like a bad thing, and master-servant sounds like an intimidating thing. Besides master sounds like something that could easily be abused. Partner sounds neutral, but knowing people, one seems just ready to run the gambit. Master servant sounds to me like it pins you down with power, but also responsibility of the office.

As far as the pub, who knows it may actually work for some people, for others it would be a disaster. It reminds me of a cog and chain set like on my bike. Often times it may just be best to replace them both if one fails after a lot of use. They tend to become “married” to each other. They both wear down each other down and shape each other in a certain way that can create problems if you bring in a new part. If one just gets to emotional and needs to cool down, it may be just as well to call it a night, and go your separate ways, until the next day. After all there may be general guidelines, but there are not exact set of rules. It tends to be more of a pragmatic venture. To me though the pub sounds like a better idea if the person is a guy. It seems men would rather tend to stew in their problems to figure out a solution, than women who seem to like to talk about them to someone.

As far as why do a number of women not appreciate good men? Often times we can be weak and we can misjudge and mistrust. Also we tend to live, especially when we are younger, making it up as we go. It’s the trial and error approach. It would be hard to appreciate a good anything, if you have a foggy idea of what make the it good. Perhaps you do have an idea of the good. Then perhaps as monicatholic said, it may be due to jealously of the good, and a hope to make it fall you your level. I’ve scene people who seem to love to commiserate or just have a misguided joy living with the pain. Some like to be able to have someone who they can count on to do the wrong thing, so they can be able to claim a “one up” to him or herself and to others. Also one must not forget its hard to appreciate something that you take for granted.

 

[Larowyn]

Women prefer abusive and tough men because they have an instinct that drives them to find stronger men to make stronger children. It’s carried over from prehistory when most humans were hunter-gatherers and not at the top of the food chain.

A man who was some kid’s bully in school, works out, possibly did time in jail, and does tough and manly things is infinitely more attractive to women than a man who is quiet and polite and might have been bullied in school. Why? Because the first man is strong and tough and can help produce strong and tough children. It’s natural selection applied to eugenics.

 

[chevalier]

He’d better not be silent! And he can be vulnerable as well as strong.

Sometimes the biggest strength is the biggest liability. I don’t think one can be too strong if one never becomes vulnerable. I would think strength relies on dealing with vulnerabilities, not pretending they don’t exist. Wouldn’t you agree?

I think a lot of marriages occur because people mistake attraction for love. When they no longer feel that original attraction, because much of it was based on illusions anyway, they think they’ve fallen out of love. Sometimes there wasn’t actually genuine love on one side or both, just dazzled self-interest. Media, books etc haven’t helped to teach that love is commitment to the true good of each other regardless of difficulties.

Possible. And if we end up wondering why a person we chose chose someone else (with “bad guy” or “bad girl” characteristics, in our perception) over us, then I suppose our own attraction was the problem. Sometimes I am somewhat attracted, I might even flirt a bit, but then I realise I wouldn’t marry the woman no matter what. And then I see a woman who is a lovely person and would be a great wife, but I’m not really attracted to her or a barrier exists. A bit as if I knew she weren’t for me, whereas with those women I sometimes even end up flirting a little with, but know I wouldn’t choose them to share a life with, there’s an attraction to defeat, which might blur vision from time to time. So perhaps we can tell if a person isn’t for us and follow it if the person is more mellow, less invasive, less conquering, whereas we have more difficulty telling or skipping if there is that attraction that gives us trouble.

 

[ladylinguist]

Women prefer abusive and tough men because they have an instinct that drives them to find stronger men to make stronger children. It’s carried over from prehistory when most humans were hunter-gatherers and not at the top of the food chain.

A man who was some kid’s bully in school, works out, possibly did time in jail, and does tough and manly things is infinitely more attractive to women than a man who is quiet and polite and might have been bullied in school. Why? Because the first man is strong and tough and can help produce strong and tough children. It’s natural selection applied to eugenics.

Errrrr. . .no. I have to say that this is the exact opposite of what would attract me in a man. And does not bear any resemblance to the men with whom my emotionally healthy friends are in relationships. Seriously, just because some women make bad choices does not mean that we’re all just stumbling around, slaves to ancient instinct, looking for the tough guy who’ll treat us like dirt. There’s nothing attractive about a man of casual violence.
Do I want to marry a strong man? Yes. But it would be terribly naive to associate violence with strength. And it would be a terrible insult to my person to accept that sort of treatment.
To the OP, no I don’t think women are so unaware of the “good men” as you seem to think. I have a great deal of appreciation for the good men in my life. Unfortunately, they’re all married (being good men they’ve been snatched up quickly). I could turn the question around on you. Men say “Oh, I want the good girl” but then you see them hooking up with the easy girls because they don’t want to put the effort into making a relationship work with the “nice girls” they claim to want.

 

[HappyPerson]

Feanaro_s_Wife:
I agree with this statement, although in defense of men, I don’t think we realize that they are damaged women, until after we’ve become involved with them, and their true selves come out. Even if we are “just friends” first, the woman who we are “just friends” with is quite often very different from the woman who she becomes in a courtship.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m not a Dr Laura fan anymore, but in past times, I read a book…ugh, the name escapes me…but it had to do with men seeking out women they can ‘rescue’ (and how that was a BAD idea) and how some women seek out problems, or ‘bad boys,’ due to a number of things–most being how their dads treated them growing up, and they are looking for love through someone that is incapable of giving it (sort of reliving childhood) It was a very good read…I wish I could think of the name!

But, I appreciate the good man I married! I dated a few bad boy types, and I can attest to what Dr Laura says about seeking out someone who resembles perhaps the dysfunction you grew up with, and got used to. My husband was so very good to me, I didn’t know how to take it. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. But, after 17 years of marriage, I am grateful that I didn’t settle for someone who treated me badly, and it helped me to get over much of the angst from my childhood.

Interesting topic!

 

[HappyPerson]

Unfortunately, they’re all married (being good men they’ve been snatched up quickly). I could turn the question around on you. Men say “Oh, I want the good girl” but then you see them hooking up with the easy girls because they don’t want to put the effort into making a relationship work with the “nice girls” they claim to want.

Men can say the same about many good girls getting snatched up quickly.

Yes, relationships take effort, but it seems like some women place unneccesary obstacles into them (emotional baggage, fear of getting close due to past hurts, “my ex-boyfriend this, my ex-boyfriend that,” refusing to accept the fact that they are wrong when a man uses logically sound factual arguments to refute their misguided opinions, failure to effectively communicate emotions, “the silent treatment,” implying things rather than outright saying them, etc.) to make relationships more effort than they need to be. Why can’t those women just cooperate and allow themselves to love and be loved?

Again, to those of you who are exceptions to this, please do not take offense, but again, realize that from my perception, you seem to be the exception, not the norm.

 

[whatevergirl]

Men can say the same about good girls getting snatched up quickly.

Yes, relationships take effort, but it seems like women place unneccesary obstacles into them (emotional baggage, fear of getting close due to past hurts, “my ex-boyfriend this, my ex-boyfriend that,” refusing to accept the fact that they are wrong when a man uses logically sound factual arguments to refute their misguided opinions, failure to effectively communicate emotions, “the silent treatment,” implying things rather than outright saying them, etc.) to make relationships more effort than they need to be. Why can’t women just cooperate and allow themselves to love and be loved?

Again, to those of you who are exceptions to this, please do not take offense, but again, realize that from my perception, you seem to be the exception, not the norm.

Hi Happy;

You should try posting the word ‘some’ before the word ‘women.’ Just like ‘all’ men are not one way or the other, neither are women. Yes, there are commonalities to genders, but just be careful to make sweeping generalities. I think that the best way to find a woman who wants a good man…is to seek out a devout Catholic woman. Someone who really understands herself, and loves herself as a child of God. This type of woman (and man) is able to accept and give love, because her faith is so grounded. I dated bad boys during my college days, and when I wasn’t as devout as I am now. I think that a woman who has her ear tuned into God’s still small voice, will be willing to wait for the good guy to come along, than waste her time with someone who treats her badly. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

… refusing to accept the fact that they are wrong when a man uses logically sound factual arguments to refute their misguided opinions,

Oh my goodness, you can’t say things like that. Even if in our opinion women’s method of thinking is less logical or less reasonable, it’s their method of thinking and as long as they hold to a conclusion or opinion, it’s their right to hold to it. You just have to accept that they see it differently than you do and look for a compromise.

 

[whatevergirl]

Oh my goodness, you can’t say things like that. Even if in our opinion women’s method of thinking is less logical or less reasonable, it’s their method of thinking and as long as they hold to a conclusion or opinion, it’s their right to hold to it. You just have to accept that they see it differently than you do and look for a compromise.

 

[HappyPerson]

Oh my goodness, you can’t say things like that. Even if in our opinion women’s method of thinking is less logical or less reasonable, it’s their method of thinking and as long as they hold to a conclusion or opinion, it’s their right to hold to it. You just have to accept that they see it differently than you do and look for a compromise.

What if she denies that the Pope is Catholic? (I am merely saying this as a hypothetical.)

What if she denies God?

What if she thinks Jesus was “just a man?”

What if she insists that 1+1 = 3?

Differing opinions are one thing, but an opinion that contradicts fact is unacceptable, and should never be allowed creedence, nor should the facts be compromised to accomodate it. She needs to just accept that she is wrong and I am right. And that’s ____________

 

[HappyPerson]

Doh!!! We need a thumbs down emoticon.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

What if she denies that the Pope is Catholic? (I am merely saying this as a hypothetical.)

What if she denies God?

What if she thinks Jesus was “just a man?”

What if she insists that 1+1 = 3?

Differing opinions are one thing, but an opinion that contradicts fact is unacceptable, and should never be allowed creedence, nor should the facts be compromised to accomodate it. She needs to just accept that she is wrong and I am right. And that’s ____________

You just have to accept it or break up with her.

 

[HappyPerson]

You just have to accept it or break up with her.

I agree that your statement likely reflects reality, but why does it have to be that way? Why do so many women have problems admitting that they are wrong?

Does this stem from history where women were not appreciated for their intelligence, and that now, women are so rebellious against the past repression of their intelligence, that they can not admit that a man has viewed something properly while they haven’t?

Or, am I at fault for seeking a rational explanation for irrational behavior?

 

[Consecrated]

I agree that your statement likely reflects reality, but why does it have to be that way? Why do so many women have problems admitting that they are wrong?

Does this stem from history where women were not appreciated for their intelligence, and that now, women are so rebellious against the past repression of their intelligence, that they can not admit that a man has viewed something properly while they haven’t?

Or, am I at fault for seeking a rational explanation for irrational behavior?

Surely you don’t really believe that this is a problem common to ONLY women, right?? What you describe is pride, plain and simple, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON ever born, except for Jesus and Mary, is susceptible. It just can carry different a title for men vs. women. Men become “arrogant”, and women become “irrational”, when they behave as such. This could be because a women might be more obviously “emotional” in her insistence upon being right, where a man might be less overtly emotional in his insistence. KWIM?

 

[HappyPerson]

Surely you don’t really believe that this is a problem common to ONLY women, right?? What you describe is pride, plain and simple, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON ever born, except for Jesus and Mary, is susceptible. It just can carry different a title for men vs. women. Men become “arrogant”, and women become “irrational”, when they behave as such. This could be because a women might be more obviously “emotional” in her insistence upon being right, where a man might be less overtly emotional in his insistence. KWIM?

Not sure what KWIM means. Is that like swimming in Nestle’s Kwik? Or is that Quick? Remember that rabbit?

Anyway, I agree that men have this problem, too. That being said, however, if an indisputable argument using concrete unobjectionable facts and evidence is presented to a man, he will be forced to admit that he is wrong. Can the same be said for all women? Not if they are adamant that they know it all.