Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

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PRmerger said:
Well, we only go by what Jesus said, Anziano. He said it, so we believe it.
No one comes to the Father except through Him.
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Jesus did say that no one can come to the FATHER except thru Him, He did NOT say that no one can come to GOD except thru Him, as some change the whole meaning of what He said by changing one word.

Since God Is a Trinity, there could be myriad ways to Jesus or for that matter, to the Holy Spirit.

And since God Is a Being of Love, rather than Love being an attribute of God, many may come to God and not even realize it.

It is because of this statement by Jesus that I believe that it was thru Jesus that I met Dad, Who Is referred to as God the Father.

None of us have God “all figured out”, even tho quite a few seem to think that they do.
 
Tom_Baum said:
Jesus did say that no one can come to the FATHER except thru Him, He did NOT say that no one can come to GOD except thru Him, as some change the whole meaning of what He said by changing one word.

Since God Is a Trinity, there could be myriad ways to Jesus or for that matter, to the Holy Spirit.

And since God Is a Being of Love, rather than Love being an attribute of God, many may come to God and not even realize it.

It is because of this statement by Jesus that I believe that it was thru Jesus that I met Dad, Who Is referred to as God the Father.

None of us have God “all figured out”, even tho quite a few seem to think that they do.
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Amen!

Jesus is the Eternal Logos, not just the Word Incarnate. As such, anyone who knows Him, even if it is not through the man Jesus, can come to know the Eternal Godhead.

But this truth still remains: no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son.
 
PRmerger said:
I am not making any attempt to discuss the Real Presence with you, Buddy.

I am trying to get you to address your inconsistency in logic.

If you believe that Muslims worship a different God (on topic), then you also must, logically, declare that Lutherans are worshipping a different Christ (still on topic, as it applies to applying the same paradigm.)

How do you reconcile this inconsistency, Buddy?

Either Lutherans and Calvinists worship different Christs, and Muslims worship a different God…

OR

Lutherans and Calvinists still worship the same Christ, even with different understandings, AND Muslims worship the same God, even with different understandings.

Which is your answer?
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Lutherans and Calvinists have the same presuppositions, they start from the same core of faith. They are the same presuppositions used by Catholics. Muslims use a different presupposition. Allah, Trinity, same God? No.
 
Buddyroe said:
The co-ran is their source of faith it is how they know what they believe, how they define God and it is a different definition of God, a different God. Sorry FrDavid96, this time I am on topic for this thread.
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It’s not about being off-topic or on-topic as far as forum rules—that’s not what I meant.

The point was that the question is “what God do Muslims worship?” not how do they worship? or what book do they read?

You are trying to answer one question by changing the question and answering it with something different.

That’s been the whole problem with this thread since it was first posted.

There’s no question that Moslems have different views of God compared to Christians. No one doubts that.

But, although they have very different views of God, they still believe in the same God as we Christians, the God of Abraham.

That’s not the same thing as saying that their beliefs about that God are true----but again, that’s just not the question which was being asked.
 
PRmerger said:
Amen!

Jesus is the Eternal Logos, not just the Word Incarnate. As such, anyone who knows Him, even if it is not through the man Jesus, can come to know the Eternal Godhead.

But this truth still remains: no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son.
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As the fairly recent prayer goes:

O My Jesus,
Forgive Us Our Sins,
Save Us From The Fires Of Hell;
Lead All Souls To Heaven,
Especially Those In Most Need Of Thy Mercy.
Amen.

I believe that Jesus is the Saviour of the world, not just part of it.

Have you ever looked past heaven, in your ponderings, to the new heavens and the new earth?

We, sometimes, seem to forget that “new heavens and a new earth” are even mentioned.

Not only are “new heavens and a new earth” mentioned but it is also mentioned that the “old” will pass away, among other happenings.
 
PRmerger said:
Amen!

Jesus is the Eternal Logos, not just the Word Incarnate. As such, anyone who knows Him, even if it is not through the man Jesus, can come to know the Eternal Godhead.

But this truth still remains: no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son.
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When Jesus and you say “no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son,” do you mean by going through the Son of one’s own accord or by going through the Son even if one is not aware of doing so?
 
meltzerboy said:
When Jesus and you say “no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son,” do you mean by going through the Son of one’s own accord or by going through the Son even if one is not aware of doing so?
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That is above my paygrade, friend. To what degree a person follows the Eternal Logos, either with full intention, partial intention, or no intention whatsoever, is not for me to determine.

And the Church has declared this to be above her paygrade as well. 🙂
 
Tom_Baum said:
As the fairly recent prayer goes:

O My Jesus,
Forgive Us Our Sins,
Save Us From The Fires Of Hell;
Lead All Souls To Heaven,
Especially Those In Most Need Of Thy Mercy.
Amen.

I believe that Jesus is the Saviour of the world, not just part of it.

Have you ever looked past heaven, in your ponderings, to the new heavens and the new earth?

We, sometimes, seem to forget that “new heavens and a new earth” are even mentioned.

Not only are “new heavens and a new earth” mentioned but it is also mentioned that the “old” will pass away, among other happenings.
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I am not understanding your point here, Tom. :confused:
 
Buddyroe said:
Lutherans and Calvinists have the same presuppositions, they start from the same core of faith. They are the same presuppositions used by Catholics. Muslims use a different presupposition. Allah, Trinity, same God? No.
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And Muslims and Christians have the same presupposition: we start from the same core of faith: there is but ONE GOD. He is ALL POWERFUL. He is merciful. He is just. He is transcendent and not part of His creation.

I don’t understand why you get to choose what is the barrir to unity. You seem to be drawing the line at the Trinity. That is: if you don’t believe in the Trinity you don’t believe in the same God.

Why can’t someone else draw the line at the Real Presence? That is: if you don’t believe in the Real Presence, you don’t believe in the same Christ.

What do you think about that, Buddy? Why do you get to draw the line in the sand at one theological truth but not another theological truth?
 
FrDavid96 said:
It’s not about being off-topic or on-topic as far as forum rules—that’s not what I meant.

The point was that the question is “what God do Muslims worship?” not how do they worship? or what book do they read?

You are trying to answer one question by changing the question and answering it with something different.

That’s been the whole problem with this thread since it was first posted.

There’s no question that Moslems have different views of God compared to Christians. No one doubts that.

But, although they have very different views of God, they still believe in the same God as we Christians, the God of Abraham.

That’s not the same thing as saying that their beliefs about that God are true----but again, that’s just not the question which was being asked.
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Dear FRDavid96, Don’t know what you meant but what you wrote was that I was being off topic.
Now you, me, mulsims, mormons, moonies; all of us can speak for our own beliefs but we can’t truly get inside each others heads and speak on the beliefs of others (all our thoughts are our own).
How can we answer a question what is a “same God” except by examining the source of belief. For us it is from scripture (please I’m not trying to open a sola scripura debate) for them it is co-ran. OK let’s say they believe in the god of Abraham; regardless of what they think that means, is it equivalent to the claim in the words of our Lord “verily verily I say unto you, before Abraham was I am.”? I seriously doubt they would agree to that equivalency, I have probed muslims on this point and they are usually in accord that they do not believe in the same God as we do (actually they prefer the say that we do not believe in the same god as they do).
 
How many people here have much experience with Muslims? Anyone speak Arabic? Studied in the ME? Etc…?
 
PRmerger said:
And Muslims and Christians have the same presupposition: we start from the same core of faith: there is but ONE GOD. He is ALL POWERFUL. He is merciful. He is just. He is transcendent and not part of His creation.

I don’t understand why you get to choose what is the barrir to unity. You seem to be drawing the line at the Trinity. That is: if you don’t believe in the Trinity you don’t believe in the same God.

Why can’t someone else draw the line at the Real Presence? That is: if you don’t believe in the Real Presence, you don’t believe in the same Christ.

What do you think about that, Buddy? Why do you get to draw the line in the sand at one theological truth but not another theological truth?
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Well I think you are beginning to get it, Trinity is the line in the sand and once you get a grasp on that you are close to becoming Catholic.
 
Maybe we can get the muslims to weigh in on this, Its been my same experience as above. All agree there is one God be it we seem to have a fundamental disagreement on the worship part. They simply disagree with the worship aspect and frankly in respect of ecumenical dialogue I think it better to focus on the love your neighbor and beatitudes in bringing in the focus, here without restrictive dialogue the conversation seems to fair different.

One God, all human creatures, morality and spreading the one God message to the secular world. Little bit of disagreement on the message part also. That mystery of love your neighbor seems to be the recourse.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Maybe we can get the muslims to weigh in on this, Its been my same experience as above. All agree there is one God be it we seem to have a fundamental disagreement on the worship part. They simply disagree with the worship aspect and frankly in respect of ecumenical dialogue I think it better to focus on the love your neighbor and beatitudes in bringing in the focus, here without restrictive dialogue the conversation seems to fair different.

One God, all human creatures, morality and spreading the one God message to the secular world. Little bit of disagreement on the message part also. That mystery of love your neighbor seems to be the recourse.
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What, exactly, are you opposed to, regarding the profession that Muslims** worship **the same God that Christians do?
 
Buddyroe said:
Well I think you are beginning to get it, Trinity is the line in the sand and once you get a grasp on that you are close to becoming Catholic.
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Where does the Bible say that, Buddy?

Book, chapter and verse, please that says that unless one believes in the Trinity he is worshipping a different god.
 
PRmerger said:
Where does the Bible say that, Buddy?

Book, chapter and verse, please that says that unless one believes in the Trinity he is worshipping a different god.
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Earlier I gave Bible references to the Trinity, scroll back at your leisure.

Please tell me you are not a muslim troll.

Here is some scripture on how we should receive someone who does not accept the deity of Christ:

2 John 7-11 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
 
Buddyroe said:
Earlier I gave Bible references to the Trinity, scroll back at your leisure.
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No, Buddy.

I didn’t ask for Biblical references to the Trinity.

I asked where there is a Bible verse that supports your assertion that one must believe in the Trinity or he is worshipping a different god.

I will give you an entire 46 book set of inspired writings that say that people can worship a God without acknowledging the Trinity, but still be worshipping the same God.

See here–the first 46 books listed: usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm

You have simply declared a man-made tradition–something found NOWHERE in the Bible.

I believe that your tradition is against making theological proclamations without any Biblical support, yes?
 
Buddyroe said:
Earlier I gave Bible references to the Trinity, scroll back at your leisure.

Please tell me you are not a muslim troll.

Here is some scripture on how we should receive someone who does not accept the deity of Christ:

2 John 7-11 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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What about different versions of Trinitarianism, which Catholics refer to as heresy, in which the three Persons of G-d are thought to be separate rather than distinct? Are people who believe this also worshiping a different G-d? And what about Oneness Pentecostals who are not trinitarian: which G-d do they worship? How about Mormons, JW’s, and Quakers? Are they all worshiping different deities, and, if so, which ones?

PRmerger, a Muslim troll? I assume you’re joking.
 
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