Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicSoxFan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
One God relativism. To which all staunchly emphasis. “we don’t worship with them”.

1] False Doctrine

2] False prophet

3] Denial of the saving grace and mercy of Christ.

4] Denial of the covenants.

5] Submission is required reducing free will to slavery, equal rights? Mohammed banned the Bible and so forth.

6] Monarchy of the physical world. Polar opposite of Christianity.

god-unknown logically.
 
One God relativism. To which all staunchly emphasis. “we don’t worship with them”.

1] False Doctrine

2] False prophet

3] Denial of the saving grace and mercy of Christ.

4] Denial of the covenants.

5] Submission is required reducing free will to slavery, equal rights? Mohammed banned the Bible and so forth.

6] Monarchy of the physical world. Polar opposite of Christianity.

god-unknown logically.
'Tis true that the above is an accurate picture of Islam.

Not sure what the point is, though.

Was there anyone here who was professing that Muslims profess the saving grace and mercy of Christ or any of the other things on the list?



So the above points are all agreed upon by all here. And therefore was an inutile commentary that failed to advance the dialogue
 
The Syriac Creed is known by the first word: mhaymneenan or “we believe.” The plurality expresses that these are the truths about God and if one professes a god that do not hold these essential truths, then they do not believe in God. The footnotes are that this God is “one Lord” a Hidden Father, the Creator, who willed that His Only-Begotten Son, one Lord, was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and He procured our salvation and His Holy Spirit completed His Holy Mystery and was the active element in inspiring prophets and apostles through the ages. A Muslim would only accept the Father and Spirit, and it would probably be considered shirk to worship Him. They readily denounce the truth of the incarnate Son and His redemptive passion.

Furthermore, in our doxology it says: “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one true God.” To believe in the one true God is to believe in the God of Three divine Persons. Jews prior to the coming of Jesus had no ability to know this since this information had not been revealed and so they, just as the Samaritan at the well, could worship what they did not know. However, Muslims [as well as Jews] by their modern profession actively reject the revelation of the Three Persons. Therefore, they do not worship the same God as we do. I would say the same about non-Trinitarian Protestants.

To say they might be worshipping something that isn’t the true God, though, is not to say that the true God is not the one inspiring them. Kind of like how God enabled the foreign peoples to crush Israel when the Jews disobeyed Him. God is still the ever present and permeating voice that even an atheist can hear but not necessarily know what it is.
 
The Syriac Creed is known by the first word: mhaymneenan or “we believe.” The plurality expresses that these are the truths about God and if one professes a god that do not hold these essential truths, then they do not believe in God. The footnotes are that this God is “one Lord” a Hidden Father, the Creator, who willed that His Only-Begotten Son, one Lord, was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and He procured our salvation and His Holy Spirit completed His Holy Mystery and was the active element in inspiring prophets and apostles through the ages. A Muslim would only accept the Father and Spirit, and it would probably be considered shirk to worship Him. They readily denounce the truth of the incarnate Son and His redemptive passion.

Furthermore, in our doxology it says: “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one true God.” To believe in the one true God is to believe in the God of Three divine Persons. Jews prior to the coming of Jesus had no ability to know this since this information had not been revealed and so they, just as the Samaritan at the well, could worship what they did not know. However, Muslims [as well as Jews] by their modern profession actively reject the revelation of the Three Persons. Therefore, they do not worship the same God as we do. I would say the same about non-Trinitarian Protestants.
Would you say, then, that Christians who deny the Real Presence are not truly worshipping Christ?
 
Would you say, then, that Christians who deny the Real Presence are not truly worshipping Christ?
I would say they have not received the fullness of His message. There would be something inherently disordered about their prayer life. I don’t think I’d go so far as to say they’re not worshipping Christ though, because Christ isn’t bread.
 
uh… PRmerger is defending the official Roman Catholic view.

We may not like that viewpoint, but we can’t say she’s not in assent with what her church has promulgated.
What particular aspect of giving carte blanche recognition to the believers in the ‘god of Abraham’ as opposed to the proclamations of Christ Jesus are you recommending?
Something is seriously wrong here.
 
I would say they have not received the fullness of His message. There would be something inherently disordered about their prayer life. I don’t think I’d go so far as to say they’re not worshipping Christ though, because Christ isn’t bread.
So why do you not say the same thing about Muslims? Why not say that they have not professed the fullness of the message of God, and that there is something inherently disordered about their prayer life, but that they are not worshipping a different God?

Do you not see a inconsistency here?
 
What particular aspect of giving carte blanche recognition to the believers in the ‘god of Abraham’ as opposed to the proclamations of Christ Jesus are you recommending?
Something is seriously wrong here.
Ah, I see where your problem is, Buddy.

You think that in saying that Muslims profess belief in the same God, where they profess a belief in One God who is all merciful, all just, all powerful, omnipresent and transcendent, is the same thing as saying “I give them carte blanche recognition!”

Nope.

All that we are doing here is saying: Muslims get it right about some things about God. They are closer to the Truth than atheists, Buddhists, Bahais, pantheists, Mormons in their profession of beliefs, in some areas.

Are you ok with that?
 
Ah, I see where your problem is, Buddy.

You think that in saying that Muslims profess belief in the same God, where they profess a belief in One God who is all merciful, all just, all powerful, omnipresent and transcendent, is the same thing as saying “I give them carte blanche recognition!”

Nope.

All that we are doing here is saying: Muslims get it right about some things about God. They are closer to the Truth than atheists, Buddhists, Bahais, pantheists, Mormons in their profession of beliefs, in some areas.

Are you ok with that?
No, but that doesn’t matter, how does our Lord view it?

Rev 3:13-16 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
 
No, but that doesn’t matter, how does our Lord view it?

Rev 3:13-16 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Amen!

Lukewarm Muslims–beware! Lukewarm Catholics–beware! Lukewarm Calvinists–beware!
 
Jesus said: I am the way the truth and the light no man comes to the Father but by me.
These passages are one of the hurdles that must be jumped to see the Same God in all religions. It does not mean you change the verse, it only means that one changes the “Frame of Reference” to understand them!

The Question would be; “What is the way the truth and the light by we come to the Father” that Christ is talking about?

The question you could answer without further study and say Jesus. But it may be more than that.

Baha’is Believe that it is by Christ we come to God, but we believe it is the Spirit reflecting through Christ that is talking here and not the Man. Thus this is the Way the Truth and the Light.

If we think about it this way then it is the One and Only God that talks through all the Major World Religions and even right back through Ancient Indigenous Beliefs.

We believe this of all Prophets. Thus the only way to God is through the Manifestations.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
When Jesus and you say “no one can get to heaven except by going through the Son,” do you mean by going through the Son of one’s own accord or by going through the Son even if one is not aware of doing so?
That is a good question I would like to answer from a Baha’i point of view 👍

One has to recognize the God of Abraham in Jesus to fulfill Gods Covenant with man as written in the Old Testament.

But it does not stop there as the Covenant includes all of Gods Manifestations, thus to fulfill ones belief in the Bible, Baha’is also believe that we must except Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’ullah. All these Manifestations showed us the way to the One and Only God.

It can also be shown where the Bible mentions these Revelations, of course entirly different subjects 😉 👍

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Hello,

I was raised a Catholic but after reading a translation of the Quran I converted to Islam. Muslims worship the same Almighty God that Christians know as God the Father. I recognized that immediately when I first read the Quran. I have lived in Jordan, met several Arabian Christians and read an Arabic bible - The Name of God in the Arabic Bible is “Allah.”

In defense of my beloved faith, I would like to reply the false charges against Muslims and Islam made by another poster.
1] False Doctrine
And those who disbelieve say, “This [Qur’an] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it.” But they have committed an injustice and a lie. * And they say, “Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon.” * Say, [O Muhammad], “It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful.” [The Quran 25:4-6]
2] False prophet
So remind [O Muhammad], for you are not, by the favor of your Lord, a soothsayer or a madman. * Or do they say [of you], “A poet for whom we await a misfortune of time?” * Say, “Wait, for indeed I am, with you, among the waiters.” [The Quran 52:29-31]
3] Denial of the saving grace and mercy of Christ.
She said, “How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?” He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’ " [The Quran 19: 20-21]

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. [The Quran 5:116]
4] Denial of the covenants.
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant. [The Quran 33:7]
5] Submission is required reducing free will to slavery, equal rights? Mohammed banned the Bible and so forth.
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut (false dieties) and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. [The Quran 2:256]
6] Monarchy of the physical world .
Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion. * Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty. [The Qur’an 57:20-21]
6] Polar opposite of Christianity.
Say, “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason.” (151)

Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful. [The Quran 4:36]
god-unknown logically
.
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [The Quran 2:255]
He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. * He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him. * He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [The Quran 59:22-24]

And there are many more Quranic verses that disprove your statements

May Almighty God guide us all to the straight path
 
Hello,

I was raised a Catholic but after reading a translation of the Quran I converted to Islam. Muslims worship the same Almighty God that Christians know as God the Father. I recognized that immediately when I first read the Quran. I have lived in Jordan, met several Arabian Christians and read an Arabic bible - The Name of God in the Arabic Bible is “Allah.”

In defense of my beloved faith, I would like to reply the false charges against Muslims and Islam made by another poster.

And those who disbelieve say, “This [Qur’an] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it.” But they have committed an injustice and a lie. * And they say, “Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon.” * Say, [O Muhammad], “It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful.” [The Quran 25:4-6]

So remind [O Muhammad], for you are not, by the favor of your Lord, a soothsayer or a madman. * Or do they say [of you], “A poet for whom we await a misfortune of time?” * Say, “Wait, for indeed I am, with you, among the waiters.” [The Quran 52:29-31]

She said, “How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?” He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’ " [The Quran 19: 20-21]

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. [The Quran 5:116]

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant. [The Quran 33:7]

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut (false dieties) and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. [The Quran 2:256]

Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion. * Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty. [The Qur’an 57:20-21]

Say, “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason.” (151)

Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful. [The Quran 4:36]

.
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [The Quran 2:255]
He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. * He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him. * He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [The Quran 59:22-24]

And there are many more Quranic verses that disprove your statements

May Almighty God guide us all to the straight path
Well done 👍

I would like to ask since you have found the Truth in Muhammad, have you heard about the Bab and Baha’u’llah? If so thoughts about the message of the Bab and Baha’u’llah being from the same God that Muhammad is taking about! 😉

May Allah Bless you & Regards Tony
 
'Tis true that the above is an accurate picture of Islam.

Not sure what the point is, though.
The point is we do not worship the same God, nor could it be explicit for it is “unknown”. I believe you missed the point . 😉

NOTE: PR is right 99% of the time, she is 1/2 right here which indicates the “rare” 1% 😃

John 8:41-

The Children of the Devil

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

You are doing the works of your own father." “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.…

You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

How about it, worshipping the same God? :nope:…
 
Well I think you are beginning to get it, Trinity is the line in the sand and once you get a grasp on that you are close to becoming Catholic.
The Jewish people believe in the God of Abraham.
The Christian people believe in the God of Abraham.
The Muslim people believe in the God of Abraham.

Same God in all the cases = The God of Abraham.

That all peoples above have a different understanding of this God, does not mean that they believe in different Gods.

PnP
 
Benedict “Light of the World” Islam and Ecumenism

Q- Not long ago the Pope thought it his duty to save the West from Islamization Is the Vatican now following a differ policy?

A- Answer…“NO Historical situations change”.

Q- Was the Regensburg address a mistake?

A- The political reading ripped the academic argument out of context. Islam needs to clarify its understanding of violence and reason.

“Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God”, said Manuel II, quoted from Regensburg

Today we live in a completely different world, radical secularism on one side and the question of “god in various forms” on the other.

We cannot dissolve ourselves into each other!!! Truth can be narrowed down to a point of intolerance.

We invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures
 
The Jewish people believe in the God of Abraham.
The Christian people believe in the God of Abraham.
The Muslim people believe in the God of Abraham.

Same God in all the cases = The God of Abraham.

That all peoples above have a different understanding of this God, does not mean that they believe in different Gods.

PnP
What about the words of Jesus Christ? Did these souls worship the same God?

John 8:41-

The Children of the Devil

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

You are doing the works of your own father." “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.…

You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

How about it, worshipping the same God?
 
Jesus is responding to the first half of their claim in John 8:33, “We are Abraham’s descendants” by pointing out that while they may be so by genealogy (John 8:37), their spiritual father is “the devil.” They try to insist, “Abraham is our father”

(John 8:39) and then, “We have one Father - God”

(John 8:41) but both times, Jesus points out how both claims are disproven by their actions, which show them to be liars and murders, just like the devil, who is “a murderer from the beginning… a liar and the father of it.” (John 8:44)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top