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GaryTaylor
Guest
Sure is, perhaps quicker today than usual, could just be it seems quicker as you age also.
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josie_L
Guest
Do the Jews worship a different God because they do not accept the Trinity?
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FrDavid96
Guest
Exodus 3:
4. When the Lord saw that he had turned aside to look, God called out to him from the bush: Moses! Moses! He answered, “Here I am.” 5 God said: Do not come near! Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. 6 I am the God of your father, he continued, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
God identifies Himself as the “God of Abraham.”
If that self-identification is good enough for God, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.
There is only One “God of Abraham.”
All those who acknowledge the God of Abraham acknowledge the same God as we Christians.
Whether or not they acknowledge the Christian faith is a different subject.
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josie_L
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Katie_Kilbane
Guest
Hello and thank you for your question. First, I would like to clarify that I didn’t say I found the Truth in Muhammad. I found what I believe (with my whole heart, soul and mind) to be the truth in the Final Revelation to all of mankind: the Glorious Quran. I say this lest it is misunderstood that Muslims worship Muhammad or that Islam teaches us to worship Muhammad. Allaah says (what translates to mean):Well done
I would like to ask since you have found the Truth in Muhammad, have you heard about the Bab and Baha’u’llah? If so thoughts about the message of the Bab and Baha’u’llah being from the same God that Muhammad is taking about!
May Allah Bless you & Regards Tony
Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful. [The Quran 2:144]
And Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said in an authentic hadeeth reported by Al-Bukhari on the authority of Omar (ibn Al Khattab - the close friend of Muhammad and second caliph of Islam, may God be pleased with him),* “ I heard the Prophet saying, ‘Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a slave. So, call me the slave of Allah and His Apostle.’"*
You asked if I heard about the founders of your faith and if I think that their message is from the same God that revealed His Final Message to all of humanity through Muhammad. I was not familiar with the tenants of your faith, so I did a cursory search on the internet and found a table that outlines the beliefs of Bahai alongside those of Islam. After looking it over I can say with 100% certainty that they are not from the same source. There are major fundamental differences, not the least of which is that Bahai teaches that certain holy men are “manifestations of God” while such a concept is 100 % against the teachings of Islam.
The unifying and ultimate message of Islam and that of all of God’s Prophets and Messengers is simple: Worship Only the Creator and do not worship anything of the creation, whether it be trees, sun, moon, stars, prophets, saints, or holy men etc…
I understand that each religion will have different ideas about what constitutes “worship”, so just to make clear, the Islamic concept of “worship” is, ***“Anything that God loves or is pleased with from the sayings and actions, both inwardly ( meaning, of the heart like belief, hope, reliance, seeking forgiveness etc…) and outwardly ( meaning, of the tongue and limbs like supplications, prayer, fasting, performing acts of kindness etc.).” ***
Therefore, if any of these internal or external saying or actions are done for other than the Almighty God then it is considered worshiping other than Him the High and Exalted - according to the teachings of Islam.
I ask Almighty God that He guides us all to the Straight Path and on the Straight Path.
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GaryTaylor
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Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the forum.
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Augustine3
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Is that your only reason why you converted?
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MorEphrem
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I’ve already anticipated and responded to that question in this thread.
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Katie_Kilbane
Guest
It’s okay, there is nothing to forgive and I’m not offended. I’m not sure what you mean by saying “as a convert I should know that already.” Do you mean I should know that “Allah” is not the name of God?
May I ask if you are a native Arabic speaker or a student of the Arabic language? I’m not a native speaker but (and all praise and thanks be to God), I am a beginning student of the Arabic language. It seems you have confused the meaning of “ilah” with the meaning of “Allah.” The word “ilah” means “god” in Arabic. The linguistic scholars (of the Arabic language) describe its meaning in fine detail:
- Ilah is that which the heart is bound by love. Meaning an object which the hearts are bound to with such; love, fear, hope, reliance, help, pray, sacrifice, votive, prostration and with all hidden types of worship. Ilah means ma’luh meaning mabud- the one who is worshipped. All linguistic scholars described the meaning of ilah in such manner. *
Allah - there is no deity (ilah) except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [The Quran 2:255]
For Muslims, It is the name of The Almighty Creator, Lord of the Heavens and the Earth and all that is between them. It is similar to the Hebrew and Aramaic words for “the God”( I think they are El and Elah - since they are all Semitic languages they have a lot of similar words) When Arabic speaking Jews and Christians read their Bibles they read “Allah” where it would say “God.” It is a proper name. When you read “God spoke to Moses”, what comes to your mind? One unique being right? He is refered to by that title or name.
I don’t see any contradiction between what it means and the fact that it is the name of God. There are many proper Arabic names that carry the same meaning as the literal word for example: If we want to say “a guide” in Arabic we would say “Rasheed” and Rasheed is an Arabic name. I can’t say for certain but I think it is like that for other languages as well - where the proper name carries the literal meaning of a word.
One other thing, I don’t think “Josie” means “human”, so that analogy between meanings of ‘god’ and ‘human’ doesn’t really make sense to me.
Anyways I didn’t come here to debate, that is not something I am good at doing - nor did I join the forum to put down anyones religion or faith - It’s just that when I read those false accusations against my cherished faith, I felt compelled to respond.
I ask Almighty God to guide us all to the Straight Path.
Thank you, Katie
PS: I like your signature statement
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Tom_Baum
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MorEphrem
You wrote, “Communion is not God in the same sense that love is not God”
The Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus and when I met God the Father, I came to the realization that the statement “God Is Love” is quite literal, in that God Is a Being of Love as opposed to Love being an attribute of God, so you are wrong on both counts.
You wrote, “Communion is not God in the same sense that love is not God”
The Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus and when I met God the Father, I came to the realization that the statement “God Is Love” is quite literal, in that God Is a Being of Love as opposed to Love being an attribute of God, so you are wrong on both counts.
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Tom_Baum
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God Is our Dad, our Brother and our Knitting Buddy and if one professes to be a Christian than the most basic of the basics is that God became One of us.
God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.
I have met Dad and I have met the Holy Spirit Who revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus, among other things that I have experienced, so I “know” a little and I believe God knew that I needed to “know” some to even attempt to do the “job” that God chose for me to do.
The “god of islam” very clearly not only denies the Divinity of God-Incarnate, Jesus, but than goes and claims God-Incarnate as his prophet, you can accept this, I don’t.
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MorEphrem
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What you just did there is sophistry and does not follow proper philosophical form.
(1) Any orthodox Catholic theologian would say that communion IS NOT numerically synonymous with the divine person of Jesus Christ. That is like saying my hand is synonymous with my person. Although the Eucharist contains the presence of Christ and is His flesh through a mystery, it is NOT numerically synonymous with Christ. If communion was the entirety of Christ, you’d be subsuming God…
(2) Love is NOT God. The quote from Scripture is God is love. That is a serious semantics confusion. In this case, “is” is acting in an attributive sense (i.e. God has an attribute which is “love”) but it is not a statement of equation (similar to when you say “the house is red;” that does not mean “the red is house” - that makes no sense). If love was God, it’s hardly different from red is house. The most sense that could be made is that God is just an abstract concept. Even, as you claim, God is a “Being of Love,” that’s great but that’s still attributive.
The ideas you put forward are heterodoxical in the Catholic/Orthodox world and I think you should consider recanting. I’m not one to respect special “personal” revelations.
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FrDavid96
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You are only reinforcing the fact that you still do not understand the question being asked.
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Tom_Baum
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I am not a philosopher nor a theologian, merely a messenger.
When you meet the Second Person of the Trinity, you can take up your “numerically synonymous” thing with Him, I’m merely telling you what the Holy Spirit revealed to me, by the way, before this was revealed to me as “fact”, I did believe what I was taught that Jesus said concerning this.
Not to worry, when you meet Dad, you will come to the same realization and also come to realize that it is not “serious semantics confusion” at all.
You wrote, “I’m not one to respect special “personal” revelations”.
That’s fine, but if you ever have any “special “personal” revelations” of your own, who knows, you just might change your mind.
Have you ever noticed that some, not all, of both philosophers and theologians use somewhat “fancy” language at times to make it seem like they know what they are talking about rather than saying something simple, maybe this could be one of the reasons that God has reportedly said, “I will send the simple to confound the wise”.
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MorEphrem
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Ok, well I don’t think I used a word that a high school kid wouldn’t know (and I explained things in simple terms, unless you find the phrase “the house is red” too complex) but since you are not interested in intelligent discussion I will continue to listen to the Church and you can continue to supposedly listen to the Holy Trinity that has graced you among all humanity to have His extension number.
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jakasaki
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Katie ~
Welcome to CAF!
What contribution can you add to the topic…
Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God…???
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Tom_Baum
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I didn’t ask to be chosen to speak but I have said Yes.
It is pretty simple tho isn’t it, either God became One of us or God didn’t?
The most basic of the basics of Christianity says that God became One of us and without this most basic of basics, there would be no Christianity.
Christianity is about what God did for humanity in becoming One of us, do you agree or disagree?
And then about 600 years later along comes someone that claims God didn’t become One of us and He Who claimed to be God in the Flesh must have been lying and yet claimed this One Who must have been lying as his prophet and declared himself god.
Of course, he claimed himself god with a capital g but he is not, he is merely a godwannabe and has been a godwannabe for quite some time.
Claiming to be god with a capital g does not mean that one is god.
By the way, I do believe that the koran was supernaturally inspired but not by God nor by Gabriel.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
The thing is, is that I do “understand the question being asked”.
The God of the bible and the god of the koran are NOT the same.
Even you have said that except for being called the “God of Abraham” that there seem to be some “discrepancies” between the God of the bible and the “god” spoken of in the koran, haven’t you?
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Do you hold a similar regard to how you define the term “Christian.” That the only true Christians are Catholics? That Protestants really aren’t Christian since their theology and understanding of God is in error and therefore different from the Catholic theology and understanding of God? What about yourself? You have stated you aren’t a theologian. Therefore it is very possible that you yourself hold views about God that are unintentionally in error. Doesn’t that mean you too don’t actually worship the real God? In fact, given the decrease in the general knowledge of what our faith teaches, doesn’t that mean that a rather large majority of Catholics don’t actually worship the real God?
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Tom_Baum
Guest
As I have stated many times I believe that God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.
I believe that there are some atheists that are more Christian than some Christians.
God Is everyone’s Judge and God’s Plan which God has had since before creation truly is GOOD NEWS.
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