Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

[GaryTaylor]

Oh believe me, I get it. I’ve gotten it for the past 27 years in my marriage to a practicing Sunni Muslim. (He will tell you he doesn’t worship my God, by the way.) I believe wholeheartedly that he is sincerely worshiping the Creator of the universe in his way, even though he misunderstands God’s nature and does not have the fulness of God’s revelation to humanity. This is much more than a mere Internet discussion where I am concerned.

I use different spellings because the names are pronounced differently according to what faith background you come from. And what did I state that was fallacious?

Oh, I think the bishops knew exactly what they were doing. Their language is obviously very carefully worded to not offend and to focus on common ground. I commend them for that. But the fact is, the Qur’an describes a different Christ who cannot save. So then what is the point of finding common ground? Evangelism of the lost, I would hope.

That is all; I’m done with this discussion.

You make a good point though. This understanding permeates because the Doctrines proposed in the Quran propose a radically different understanding of God.

Thanks and I don’t mean to drag you back, I just think your point adds clarity.

 

[GaryTaylor]

So this brings us to another view, which first of all rejects the idea this is religion at all. In fact this position was recently held by Italy in regards to Islam. In other words ideals which rest on social political agenda thus again the article above with Aquinas.

theblogmocracy.com/2010/10/22/the-orthodox-churchs-oppinion-on-islam/

“There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration”

 

[GaryTaylor]

The problems are many and for sure one is that what we call invincible ignorance is a highly contested point which proceeds on an uncharitable path. It should be no surprise issues have continued. This certainty creates the intolerance with opposed “absolute truth” views.

When people believe they have found the absolute truth then there is no turning back. To suggest they are invincibly ignorant I would suggest doesn’t help the case for peace. “It is not so much a false tactic in argument, as it is a refusal to argue in the proper sense of the word, the method instead being proposed is to make assertions with no consideration of objections.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_fallacy

 

[GaryTaylor]

So the final point which I believe I have charitably proposed the best I could is the blatant fact of the revealed truth of Christ, Namely our real enemies, as Christians, are demons when we elevate to the spiritual as this is a spiritual battle in the strictest understanding.

Thus the denial of the saving grace and mercy of Christ. And this in my understanding is what Islam indeed elevates to and is there apparent agenda. And who does this serve Jesus Christ? Can’t imagine where such and idea possibly came from.

So Edwin, when you state “That’s not the part on which my argument rests. It’s the phrase “together with us they adore the one, merciful God.” I think that’s pretty clear, especially the “together with us.””

You see here as I am suggesting again you got ahead of yourself by ignoring the first and last aspect of the paragraph. You have the cart and horse mixed up.

“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Note well, The plan of salvation is Jesus Christ and the Good News of His public revelation.

And the final sentence is “mankind’s judge of the last day” which in my mind is Biblical and thus, Jesus Christ who comes to judge the living and the dead.

Again that’s the proper sequence of which there is no salvation in the following sequence and for a very good reason. They reject this and through their “profession of faith”, in whom I have no idea what it is. I’m gonna go with “demons”. Door number one.

 

[GaryTaylor]

St. Alphonsus - “The Mohammedan Paradise, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.” (St. Alphonsus de Liguori, History of Heresies, Vol. 1., ch. vii., art. 1.)

Baltimore Catechism (No. 3) states as follows:

Q. 1148. How do we offer God false worship?

A. We offer God false worship by rejecting the religion He has instituted and following one pleasing to ourselves, with a form of worship He has never authorized, approved or sanctioned.

St. Peter Canisius “Who is to be called a Christian? He who confesses the doctrine of Christ and His Church. Hence, he is truly a Christian thoroughly condemns and detests, the Jewish, Mohammedan, and the heretical cults and sects.” (Catholic Cate-chism, Dillingen, 1560,)

St. Peter Mavimenus -, “We worship the same God, all is well” No! He told them the truth, he put it this way to them “Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian religion will be damned, as was your false prophet Mohammed.” (The Roman Martyrology for February 21)

St. Augustine, - letter to St. Jerome “one who observes the rites of Jews, or Gentiles, not only truly, but even fictitiously, has fallen into the abyss of the devil.”

Suarez - “he, who unites himself with those outside the Church in religious worship, communicates in their wicked works.”

(Opera Omnia, Tom. XXIV, p. 708)

Fr. Michael Müller, C.SS.R - “A Mohammedan is taught by his conscience that it would be a crime to believe in Jesus Christ, and not believe in Mahomet; will this impious conscience save him? The Scripture assures us that ‘there is no other name given to men under heaven by which we can be saved,’ but the name of Jesus only; and 'he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remaineth on him.”

“All the Gods of the Gentiles are Devils” (Psalm 96:5)

St. Thomas - “Nor can anyone in any way know God who holds a false opinion of Him” (Summa Theologica II - II q. 10, Art. 3)

St. Francis of Assisi - "when reproached by the followers of Koran for preaching against Mohammed, simply responded by saying “We have come to preach faith in Jesus Christ to you, that you will renounce Mohammad, that wicked slave of the devil, and obtain everlasting life like us” (Omer Englebert, 1979, Pg. 178-9)

St. John Vianney - “My friend, there are not two ways of serving Our Lord; there is only one good way, and it is to serve Him as He wishes to be served”. (SPIRIT OF THE CURE D’ARS, Bowden, 1864)

St. Alphonsus - “But the holy monk (St. George of San Saba) having declared that Mahomet was a disciple of the devil, and that his followers were in a state of perdition, he also was condemned (to martyrdom) with his companions.” (Victories of the Martyrs, ch. LIII.)

Blessed Nicholas Tavilich - “You Mohammedans are in a state of everlasting damnation. Your Koran is not God’s law nor is it revealed by Him. Far from being a good thing, your law is utterly evil. It is founded neither in the Old Testament nor in the New. In it are lies, foolish things, buffooneries, contradictions, and much that leads not to virtue and goodness but to evil and to all manner of vice.”

St. John- “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, or say to him Welcome” - II John 1:10

 

[Tom_Baum]

My problem is that the Abraham of the Bible doesn’t very closely resemble the Ibrahim of the Qur’an. The Ibrahim of the Qur’an smashes his father’s idols, builds the Kaaba with Ishmael, and marries Hagar the Egyptian princess. So are you still sure that the God of Abraham is the God of Ibrahim?

And tied in with that is the Isaac vs Ismael thing with the whole of Judaism based, after Abraham of course, on the twelve tribes flowing from Jacob’s sons into what became the Jews.

Not only is the Jesus of the koran and the Jesus of the bible quite different, to put it mildly, but the god of the koran not only denies the Divinity of Jesus, of which absolutely ALL of what Christianity is about is based on, but than claims God-Incarnate as his prophet, something that those that want to appease at all costs should at least give a thought to.

Jesus presented us with a very simple question, “Who do you say that I AM?”, seems to me, whether we want to “see” it or not, just how the god of islam answered Jesus’s question.

Just like satan to deny that God Is God and than to claim God as his prophet.

As I have said many times, “God Is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof” and “It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows”.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Contarini

You wrote, “Because God was known prior to the Incarnation, although of course not in the way God may be known after the Incarnation. Jesus revealed the same God people had been talking about before that, not a new God that no one had known before. (People get tired of me saying this and accuse me of insulting them, but the idea that Jesus revealed a wholly new God is the heresy of Marcionism. And if you don’t believe that, then you can’t say that either ignorance or denial of the Incarnation means that a person doesn’t worship the true God.)”

I am not saying that God presented a new and different God but that God revealed more about God and that the “Plan” that God has had since before creation was continuing to unfold.

There is a big, big difference between “ignorance” of the Incarnation and the “denial” of the Incarnation, especially when the Incarnation is denied and than the “Subject” of the Incarnation is claimed as a prophet by the supposed “god” denying the Incarnation.

You then wrote, "Jews think we twist the OT too. . . "

I would say that the “Jews” may think that we “misinterpret” the OT but it seems to me that the koran doesn’t so much “misinterpret” the OT as to change the OT and the NT.

You also wrote, “Your having said it before doesn’t make it true. Historically, Islam clearly owes a lot to both Judaism and Christianity, though often Muslims will deny it because they think it’s a revelation straight from God.”

I would agree that it “owes a lot to both Judaism and Christianity” since it took both and changed them.

You wrote, “Why? What makes you think that it isn’t just a human document? Why do you and other people jump so quickly to a supernatural explanation? Does it just feel good to call other religions demonic? When all the evidence can be explained perfectly well by natural means, why introduce a gratuitous supernatural explanation?”

Maybe because I have met God the Father and the Holy Spirit and satan and I have put some “pondering” into some of my “experiences” and into some of what is written that Jesus said.

You then wrote, “Non sequitur. You’re assuming, gratuitously, that some kind of supernatural being inspired the Qur’an.”

It may be a “Non sequitur” to you but I don’t care for the god of islam calling our Brother, Jesus, a liar and than claiming Jesus as his prophet.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Not hard to tell the individual faith becomes intimately entwined here. The CCC cannot be surface read, in fact I would say if you read only this only and quickly you might harm yourself, its meant to be read in context with the Church and through its footnotes and history. Its not hard to see the words of all the Saints, and in particular those who died for Jesus Christ and still are. The argument is hinged on the fact in the philosophical theological area we readily admit one God, which leads to what Islam claims to profess, and then its claimed this is the faith of Abraham thus we arrive at the conclusion there is one God, they profess one God, so they must profess the same God as us.

This is whats called “modern” logic. I might be missing something in this conversation?

 

[Contarini]

Contarini

You wrote, “Because God was known prior to the Incarnation, although of course not in the way God may be known after the Incarnation. Jesus revealed the same God people had been talking about before that, not a new God that no one had known before. (People get tired of me saying this and accuse me of insulting them, but the idea that Jesus revealed a wholly new God is the heresy of Marcionism. And if you don’t believe that, then you can’t say that either ignorance or denial of the Incarnation means that a person doesn’t worship the true God.)”

I am not saying that God presented a new and different God but that God revealed more about God and that the “Plan” that God has had since before creation was continuing to unfold.

There is a big, big difference between “ignorance” of the Incarnation and the “denial” of the Incarnation, especially when the Incarnation is denied and than the “Subject” of the Incarnation is claimed as a prophet by the supposed “god” denying the Incarnation.

There is no “supposed god.” There is a supposed revelation from the one God. Your entire case rests on this kind of loaded language and can’t stand if you abandon that language. Instead of accurately describing what Muslims claim and examining that, you import your conclusion (that this revelation is from a “supposed god”) into the way you state the question.

But the bigger point here is that people who deny the Incarnation, however culpably, believe all the same things about the One God that they did before. It boggles the mind to say that the object of someone’s worship suddenly changes while their beliefs and practices stay exactly the same. Yet your position requires you to hold this with regard to first century Jews. And if you retreat from this absurdity and say that Jews continued to worship the True God even after rejecting Jesus, then your argument collapses with regard to Islam as well.

You then wrote, "Jews think we twist the OT too. . . "

I would say that the “Jews” may think that we “misinterpret” the OT but it seems to me that the koran doesn’t so much “misinterpret” the OT as to change the OT and the NT.

Certainly. But these changes do not have much to do with the concept of God, except insofar as one can make a case that Muslims took the harshest aspects of both Judaism and Christianity (i.e., the concept of eternal hellfire, which isn’t very prominent in Judaism, but without some of the Christian teaching on God’s love that counteracts this). The Islamic concept of God and the Jewish concept of God do not substantially differ–they certainl have much more in common than either has with the Christian concept. Hence, the whole question of “Muslims changing the Biblical narrative” isn’t really relevant to the present discussion.

You wrote, “Why? What makes you think that it isn’t just a human document? Why do you and other people jump so quickly to a supernatural explanation? Does it just feel good to call other religions demonic? When all the evidence can be explained perfectly well by natural means, why introduce a gratuitous supernatural explanation?”

Maybe because I have met God the Father and the Holy Spirit and satan and I have put some “pondering” into some of my “experiences” and into some of what is written that Jesus said.

Well, your private revelations are not binding on anyone else, so they don’t carry much weight in this discussion.

It may be a “Non sequitur” to you but I don’t care for the god of islam calling our Brother, Jesus, a liar and than claiming Jesus as his prophet.

The Qur’an does not call Jesus a liar, and I repeat: you are inventing this character called “the god of islam” without providing any evidence to support your invention.

Edwin

 

[FrDavid96]

Not hard to tell the individual faith becomes intimately entwined here. The CCC cannot be surface read, in fact I would say if you read only this only and quickly you might harm yourself, its meant to be read in context with the Church and through its footnotes and history. Its not hard to see the words of all the Saints, and in particular those who died for Jesus Christ and still are. The argument is hinged on the fact in the philosophical theological area we readily admit one God, which leads to what Islam claims to profess, and then its claimed this is the faith of Abraham thus we arrive at the conclusion there is one God, they profess one God, so they must profess the same God as us.

This is whats called “modern” logic. I might be missing something in this conversation?

Yes, you are certainly missing something.

You keep confusing 2 different questions.

That’s not logic. It’s fallacy. It’s actually quite simple, but you refuse to see it because you don’t want to see it.

Let’s say that one third-grader says “Principal Smith is nice”
and another third-grader says “Principal Smith is mean”

Now, I rather think that the average third-grader would never actually believe that there are 2 different Principal Smiths, but your “logic” proves them wrong.
By your “logic” there would be 2 different Principal Smiths, because (as you have repeatedly tried to prove) if 2 different groups of people believe different things about a person, then there “must” be 2 different people (or Gods, in this case).

Let us follow your line of reasoning further.

We all know that the Democrats have one view of the current President of the US
We all know that the Republicans have a different view of the President

Based on your line of reasoning, there are actually 2 different Presidents of the United States. Who knew? How many Americans are so ignorant of your logic that they labor under the false impression that there is only one current President? I wonder…

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes, you are certainly missing something.

No based on my line of reasoning Islam is founded on pure evil. God in His wisdom created no such folly, as the story goes it for sure was allowed to exist. So the question of who or what Islam follows in my mind becomes a moot point. Whats important is those good muslims going to hell and martyring Gods holy people in the meantime.

I’m all with the party line but I also know the punch line. geez.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Do muslims and Catholics worship the same God…points to consider

1. Catholic worship is a clear known here.
2. Good muslims seeking God is a clear known.
3. Is the Quran Gods Doctrine or the work of man through evil or the God of Abraham, opposing point I don’t think it can be proven. Existing evidence provided suggests otherwise.
4. What proof of divine revelation or supporting evidence exists from the Church? None, the evidence on the Doctrine of Mohammed supports my position through the Saints and Gospel.
5. The above question proposed is a false analogy unless understood in specifics of individuals who follow the false doctrine of Mohammed.
6. Yes there are good muslims seeking the God of Abraham within the false doctrine.

Peace

 

[Tom_Baum]

Contarini

You wrote, “There is no “supposed god.” There is a supposed revelation from the one God. Your entire case rests on this kind of loaded language and can’t stand if you abandon that language. Instead of accurately describing what Muslims claim and examining that, you import your conclusion (that this revelation is from a “supposed god”) into the way you state the question.”

The supposed “god” that I was aludding to is satan, the “godwannabe”, you have probably heard of him.

You then wrote, “But the bigger point here is that people who deny the Incarnation, however culpably, believe all the same things about the One God that they did before.”

Do you mean like God choosing and forming the Chosen People, the Jews, thru Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with Abraham being the first Jew?

You do realize that Jesus was a Jew and according to islam, the Jews basically never were since God’s revelations was corrected to show that everything came thru Ismael and that not only are the Jews not the Chosen People but never were, do you agree with this supposed correction?

I have heard it said that according to the koran that everyone is Muslim but that not everyone knows it yet whereas the bible states that everyone is either a Jew or a Gentile.

Would you say that one or the other is correct or that both are incorrect?

This seems to be another one of those that can NOT both be true.

You also wrote, “And if you retreat from this absurdity and say that Jews continued to worship the True God even after rejecting Jesus, then your argument collapses with regard to Islam as well.”

Just because they were “blind” as to Who Jesus Is does not mean that they were not “worshipping” God and according to God, they were and are still the “Chosen People”.

It was only in the last 14 years that I came to realize that islam was such a “new” religion, in that it came about in the 600 AD’s, this put quite a different perspective on just what this “religion” was/is about.

I am not saying that Muslims do not believe that the god of islam is God but I am saying that Jesus is NOT God according to islam but a prophet whereas the “Jews” do not consider Jesus as God or prophet.

You then wrote, “The Islamic concept of God and the Jewish concept of God do not substantially differ–they certainl have much more in common than either has with the Christian concept. Hence, the whole question of “Muslims changing the Biblical narrative” isn’t really relevant to the present discussion.”

Are you saying that God choosing and forming the Jews thru whom God-Incarnate came into the world and the supposed “correction” that we are all Muslims and just don’t know it yet is NOT “relevant”?

You then wrote, “Well, your private revelations are not binding on anyone else, so they don’t carry much weight in this discussion.”

Maybe that is why I don’t see it as a “discussion” but a farce for anyone to say that there is basically no difference between saying that Jesus Is God-Incarnate and Jesus is NOT God-Incarnate and that the two groups saying these diametrically opposing viewpoints are speaking of the same God, can you see what I am so plainly and simply trying to say?

Then You wrote, “The Qur’an does not call Jesus a liar, and I repeat: you are inventing this character called “the god of islam” without providing any evidence to support your invention.”

Jesus flat-out said that He Is God in the bible and in the koran this is denied, wouldn’t this be calling the Jesus of the bible a liar?

I never “invented” the “god of islam”, God created satan, when you meet God, you can ask God about this.

 

[FrDavid96]

Do muslims and Catholics worship the same God…points to consider

1. Catholic worship is a clear known here.
2. Good muslims seeking God is a clear known.
3. Is the Quran Gods Doctrine or the work of man through evil or the God of Abraham, opposing point I don’t think it can be proven. Existing evidence provided suggests otherwise.
4. What proof of divine revelation or supporting evidence exists from the Church? None, the evidence on the Doctrine of Mohammed supports my position through the Saints and Gospel.
5. The above question proposed is a false analogy unless understood in specifics of individuals who follow the false doctrine of Mohammed.
6. Yes there are good muslims seeking the God of Abraham within the false doctrine.

Peace

Having a false doctrine is not the same thing as following a different God. Why can you not see this?

Think about this, please:

Catholics and Protestants believe different things about Christ.

Does that mean that the Protestants are worshipping a different Christ than the one worshipped by Catholics? Of course not. We all know that.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Having a false doctrine is not the same thing as following a different God. Why can you not see this?

Think about this, please:

Catholics and Protestants believe different things about Christ.

Does that mean that the Protestants are worshipping a different Christ than the one worshipped by Catholics? Of course not. We all know that.

1. Yes there are good muslims seeking the God of Abraham within the false doctrine

I do see it clearly. And the analogy with Triune protestants is about as fringe as those Who profess to hold the faith of Abraham following a false counterproductive doctrine.

The argument is one of semantics. This one you propose is one of imperfect worship between those who follow a triune God and those who don’t. Is there any difference you see?

 

[FrDavid96]

1. Yes there are good muslims seeking the God of Abraham within the false doctrine

I do see it clearly. And the analogy with Triune protestants is about as fringe as those Who profess to hold the faith of Abraham following a false counterproductive doctrine.

The argument is one of semantics. This one you propose is one of imperfect worship between those who follow a triune God and those who don’t. Is there any difference you see?

And that’s the same “God of Abraham” worshipped by the Christians.

You are still confusing the 2 issues.

A false doctrine about God does not mean a different God.

 

[GaryTaylor]

A false doctrine about God does not mean a different God.

The satanic bible means another God, right from the start and if “they” claimed to worship the God of Abraham then you would conclude there is one God. Same argument.

 

[Contarini]

Contarini

You wrote, “There is no “supposed god.” There is a supposed revelation from the one God. Your entire case rests on this kind of loaded language and can’t stand if you abandon that language. Instead of accurately describing what Muslims claim and examining that, you import your conclusion (that this revelation is from a “supposed god”) into the way you state the question.”

The supposed “god” that I was aludding to is satan, the “godwannabe”, you have probably heard of him.

Yes, and as I said earlier, you leap without any evidence to the conclusion that Satan inspired the Qur’an. I repeat: why on earth can’t the Qur’an be a very interesting and creative human document? Where do you see evidence of supernatural origin?

I also don’t think Satan condemns female infanticide, warns people to treat widows and orphans with justice, and so on. And I don’t buy the “mix some truth with the lie” theory. In fact, I don’t buy the idea of Satan inspiring texts at all.

Do you mean like God choosing and forming the Chosen People, the Jews, thru Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with Abraham being the first Jew?

Obviously Jews (about whom I was speaking, and who by your logic don’t believe in the true God either) believe those things. But I was speaking rather of beliefs about the nature and character of God, which are essentially the same between Judaism and Islam. Christians differ from both far more than they differ from each other because of the Incarnation and the Trinity, while having much in common of course.

You do realize that Jesus was a Jew and according to islam, the Jews basically never were since God’s revelations was corrected to show that everything came thru Ismael and that not only are the Jews not the Chosen People but never were, do you agree with this supposed correction?

Why would I? Why is this even relevant?

This is about whether Muslims and Christians (and Jews) all worship the same God.

Would you say that one or the other is correct or that both are incorrect?

Muslims are incorrect on all sorts of things. That is not in debate here.

Just because they were “blind” as to Who Jesus Is does not mean that they were not “worshipping” God and according to God, they were and are still the “Chosen People”.

Ah–so you are saying that Jews do worship the true God and Muslims don’t? Why then did you say above that the central truth about God is the Incarnation, which of course Jews deny? If Muslims don’t believe in the true God because they deny the Incarnation, then that would apply to Jews as well.

Now you seem to be saying that Jews are worshiping the true God because they are the Chosen People, and Muslims aren’t because they aren’t. (At least I think so-you aren’t being very clear.) Which makes no sense.

I am not saying that Muslims do not believe that the god of islam is God but I am saying that Jesus is NOT God according to islam but a prophet whereas the “Jews” do not consider Jesus as God or prophet.

Right. So do Jews worship the true God or not? You’re not clear on this, and the argument is very different depending on which position you take.

Are you saying that God choosing and forming the Jews thru whom God-Incarnate came into the world and the supposed “correction” that we are all Muslims and just don’t know it yet is NOT “relevant”?

Not relevant to the present question, no. It’s relevant to other things, of course. A “Muslim,” by the Muslim definition, by the way, is one who worships the One God and does His will. That’s what they mean when the say, for instance, that Jesus was a Muslim. They know that the Five Pillars of Islam hadn’t been revealed at that time.

Maybe that is why I don’t see it as a “discussion” but a farce for anyone to say that there is basically no difference between saying that Jesus Is God-Incarnate and Jesus is NOT God-Incarnate

I didn’t say that.

and that the two groups saying these diametrically opposing viewpoints are speaking of the same God

I said that. The two statements are not the same.

can you see what I am so plainly and simply trying to say?

Not very well, no. You seem very confused, both about what you are arguing and what I’m arguing. I can’t even tell if you think Jews (rejecting Jesus) worship the true God or not.

Jesus flat-out said that He Is God in the bible and in the koran this is denied, wouldn’t this be calling the Jesus of the bible a liar?

Muslims don’t think that Jesus said this, obviously.

Edwin

 

[GaryTaylor]

. In fact, I don’t buy the idea of Satan inspiring texts at all.

Opinion and one which cannot be proven. The argument is understood. Prove by history and the Church, why would you suggest this in light all the Saints.

 

[GaryTaylor]

St. Alphonsus - “The Mohammedan Paradise, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.” (St. Alphonsus de Liguori, History of Heresies, Vol. 1., ch. vii., art. 1.)

Baltimore Catechism (No. 3) states as follows:

Q. 1148. How do we offer God false worship?

A. We offer God false worship by rejecting the religion He has instituted and following one pleasing to ourselves, with a form of worship He has never authorized, approved or sanctioned.

St. Peter Canisius “Who is to be called a Christian? He who confesses the doctrine of Christ and His Church. Hence, he is truly a Christian thoroughly condemns and detests, the Jewish, Mohammedan, and the heretical cults and sects.” (Catholic Cate-chism, Dillingen, 1560,)

St. Peter Mavimenus -, “We worship the same God, all is well” No! He told them the truth, he put it this way to them “Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian religion will be damned, as was your false prophet Mohammed.” (The Roman Martyrology for February 21)

St. Augustine, - letter to St. Jerome “one who observes the rites of Jews, or Gentiles, not only truly, but even fictitiously, has fallen into the abyss of the devil.”

Suarez - “he, who unites himself with those outside the Church in religious worship, communicates in their wicked works.”

(Opera Omnia, Tom. XXIV, p. 708)

Fr. Michael Müller, C.SS.R - “A Mohammedan is taught by his conscience that it would be a crime to believe in Jesus Christ, and not believe in Mahomet; will this impious conscience save him? The Scripture assures us that ‘there is no other name given to men under heaven by which we can be saved,’ but the name of Jesus only; and 'he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remaineth on him.”

“All the Gods of the Gentiles are Devils” (Psalm 96:5)

St. Thomas - “Nor can anyone in any way know God who holds a false opinion of Him” (Summa Theologica II - II q. 10, Art. 3)

St. Francis of Assisi - "when reproached by the followers of Koran for preaching against Mohammed, simply responded by saying “We have come to preach faith in Jesus Christ to you, that you will renounce Mohammad, that wicked slave of the devil, and obtain everlasting life like us” (Omer Englebert, 1979, Pg. 178-9)

St. John Vianney - “My friend, there are not two ways of serving Our Lord; there is only one good way, and it is to serve Him as He wishes to be served”. (SPIRIT OF THE CURE D’ARS, Bowden, 1864)

St. Alphonsus - “But the holy monk (St. George of San Saba) having declared that Mahomet was a disciple of the devil, and that his followers were in a state of perdition, he also was condemned (to martyrdom) with his companions.” (Victories of the Martyrs, ch. LIII.)

Blessed Nicholas Tavilich - “You Mohammedans are in a state of everlasting damnation. Your Koran is not God’s law nor is it revealed by Him. Far from being a good thing, your law is utterly evil. It is founded neither in the Old Testament nor in the New. In it are lies, foolish things, buffooneries, contradictions, and much that leads not to virtue and goodness but to evil and to all manner of vice.”

St. John- “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, or say to him Welcome” - II John 1:10

They state different? Why do we ignore this? Are we dealing with something different or the same issue these souls did?