Do Muslims love children more than Catholics?

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bobzills

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I read on another forum that Muslim women are generally not feminists and love being mothers and having children. I was somewhat skeptical of this until I looked at some of the recent birthrates for Muslim countries and compared these with the birthrates of European Catholic countries and from the statistics it looks like it is arguably true that Muslim women love having children much more than do Catholic women.

Islamic countries: Recent birthrates:
Afghanistan:
41.82 births/1,000 population
Iraq:
35.04 births/1,000 population
Pakistan:
32.11 births/1,000 population
Saudi Arabia:
37.47 births/1,000 population

European Catholic:
France:
12.27 births/1,000 population
Hungary:
9.26 births/1,000 population
Italy:
9.13 births/1,000 population
Austria:
9.9 births/1,000 population
Spain:
9.22 births/1,000 population
Poland:
10.13 births/1,000 population
Portugal:
11.49 births/1,000 population

Can one legitimately draw the conclusion from a comparison of these birthrates that generally speaking (of course there will be exceptions) Muslims love children more than do Catholics? Or is there some other message to be drawn here?
Anyway, although this next comment is not scientific, I do see that the Muslim family in our neighborhood has six children, whereas in the local Catholic Church, there are many families with at most two children, although, once again there are exceptions.
 
Well, speaking only as it pertains to Muslim mothers that promote their children as suicide bombers, I would say “no”. Such mothers do not love their children at all, in my opinion, much less more than other mothers.

In general I suspect that those that have limited families have bought into the cultural pressure of “2 children” or less, which is a more Western concept. It is not a matter of maternal love but of culture/feminist agenda.
 
I’m doing my best to resolve the problem, believe me, but my wife won’t let me take mistresses. I think that’s very selfish of her when I’m only thinking of raising the national birth rate. I’m willing to do all i can - some sacrifices must be made for purely altruistic reasons of course.
 
I would not say it is a matter of loving children more. There is a large cultural difference. Generally speaking, being a wife and mother is what is expected of Muslim women, what they are taught is their role in life from when they are children. Muslim women attain Paradise by being totally obedient to their husbands - ie by being a wife and mother. They are not encouraged to take jobs which take them outside of the family or to pursue a career.

When I lived in Saudi Arabia, it was explained to me that they had so many children because the infant mortality rate was high. If they had many children, then at least a few would live to adulthood and be able to care for them in their old age. The mothers whose few children all died young became dependent upon other members of their extended families to support them and became burdens whose care and support was begrudged. They lost status and became second-class even within their own families. Nowadays, the infant mortality rate has significantly reduced but the culture has not changed.

In addition, Western culture has become increasingly anti-family, anti-children. ‘Choice’ is upheld as a right and large families are looked down upon. Western women are subjected to this litany everywhere. It is accepted wisdom to limit the size of one’s family. Western women are also encouraged to pursue a career and to delay having children until they are older. This also limits the number of children you can have. For some, it means that they never have children because they left it too late.

It is not a matter of loving children more. It is a matter of culture and upbringing.
 
Linda_Marie said:
It is not a matter of loving children more. It is a matter of culture and upbringing.
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But these things may be related. For example, how can people be said to love children, if the abortion rates are so high. I read an article, according to which the abortion rates in Catholic Spain have increased 72% over the past 10 years.
lifesite.net/ldn/2006/jan/06010308.html
Regardless of how you put it, the birth rate statistics indicate that generally, Muslims like having large families, whereas Catholics do not. I see this in my own neighborhood. So Islam does not really need a conventional type war to win over Catholicism. Conventional type wars between Christianity and Islam may be a thing of the past. If the current birth rate trends continue, it looks like Islam will win over Catholicism simply because Muslim women have a strong and deep love for large families and children and they are not impressed by feminism or liberalism.
 
Oh Muslims love children, usually they have big family structure around 6-8 members per household…
 
Catholics used to have large families to. Mrs O’Leary down the street had a baseball team all by herself.
 
Pertaining to our (“Western”) culture:

If you have the money to support a large family, by all means do so, if that is your choice. If you don’t, I would think it’s best to have none or few children and maintain a decent quality of life for them - at least until you do. I think this is the logic behind the wisdom of family size here.

Me and my GF have thought about kids before and we’ll probably have one or two - but much later down the road when we’re in a better position to do so (we’re both in college). This is why we would choose (yes, ‘choice’ is the operative word here) to wait - and likely many others. As you can see, this is clearly not Anti-children.

Also, it’s probably not a good idea to go popping children when you are struggling through several jobs just trying to make ends meet for yourself. I think there is something to this “wisdom” - especially when you live in areas of the country where the cost of living is very high.

Pertaining to other cultures:

I’m not sure, but I would agree with the large family numbers due to survival rate. Also, it is important to note that in more collective societies, the more kids you have can actually benefit the family in the long run, because the money made from each member is siphoned together. This often includes what we’d see as our extended family living with the nuclear family under one roof (and includes several generations).
 
bobzills said:
I read on another forum that Muslim women are generally not feminists and love being mothers and having children. I was somewhat skeptical of this until I looked at some of the recent birthrates for Muslim countries and compared these with the birthrates of European Catholic countries and from the statistics it looks like it is arguably true that Muslim women love having children much more than do Catholic women.

Islamic countries: Recent birthrates:
Afghanistan:
41.82 births/1,000 population
Iraq:
35.04 births/1,000 population
Pakistan:
32.11 births/1,000 population
Saudi Arabia:
37.47 births/1,000 population

European Catholic:
France:
12.27 births/1,000 population
Hungary:
9.26 births/1,000 population
Italy:
9.13 births/1,000 population
Austria:
9.9 births/1,000 population
Spain:
9.22 births/1,000 population
Poland:
10.13 births/1,000 population
Portugal:
11.49 births/1,000 population

Can one legitimately draw the conclusion from a comparison of these birthrates that generally speaking (of course there will be exceptions) Muslims love children more than do Catholics? Or is there some other message to be drawn here?
Anyway, although this next comment is not scientific, I do see that the Muslim family in our neighborhood has six children, whereas in the local Catholic Church, there are many families with at most two children, although, once again there are exceptions.
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Why not compare poor Catholic countries to poor Islamic countries to get a proper comparison
 
An_Agnostic said:
Pertaining to our (“Western”) culture:
If you have the money to support a large family, by all means do so, if that is your choice. If you don’t, I would think it’s best to have none or few children and maintain a decent quality of life for them - at least until you do.
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This is a typical Western “objection” to large families, but unfortunately 99% of the time it is nothing more than a convenience people choose. Most people (especially those who try to use this argument) in the western societies have far better living conditions for large families than people have ever had. Yet, they are “not wealthy enough” to have big families? As the matter of fact, most of them don’t want to bother with kids (one or two is “enough”), and would rather “enjoy life”, i.e., satisfy they own materialistic pleasures. And even if they have a child or two, those children are often not being paid enough attention and grow up with their video games and street buddies, instead of their parents.
Of course, I generalize and don’t mean it personally to AnAgnostic, yet sorry, but such argument doesn’t work!

Unfortunately most Western Catholics have lately bought into this cultural “argument” (not to mention most Protestants who did it much earlier), so now it really could be Muslims showing what love for family and children is.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Well, speaking only as it pertains to Muslim mothers that promote their children as suicide bombers,
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I would like to see how many suicide bombers are children. This is an absurd statement.

I think Muslim mothers love their kids just the same as anyone else. The fact that birth rates are up in typically muslim countries means little with regards to love and affection for kids. Just means there is less options for birth control most likely.

You folks need to stop dehumanizing others. Its not a very Christian thing to do.
 
andzy said:
This is a typical Western “objection” to large families, but unfortunately 99% of the time it is nothing more than a convenience people choose. Most people (especially those who try to use this argument) in the western societies have far better living conditions for large families than people have ever had. Yet, they are “not wealthy enough” to have big families? As the matter of fact, most of them don’t want to bother with kids (one or two is “enough”), and would rather “enjoy life”, i.e., satisfy they own materialistic pleasures. And even if they have a child or two, those children are often not being paid enough attention and grow up with their video games and street buddies, instead of their parents.
Of course, I generalize and don’t mean it personally to AnAgnostic, yet sorry, but such argument doesn’t work!
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We disagree, and that’s fine. I think I made a valid point. I’m not materialistic in the sense that you speak - and the generalizations following are that of a slippery-slope.

May I ask how you determine the number of children that is appropriate to have?
 
An_Agnostic said:
We disagree, and that’s fine. I think I made a valid point. I’m not materialistic in the sense that you speak - and the generalizations following are that of a slippery-slope.
May I ask how you determine the number of children that is appropriate to have?
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Yes, we disagree, as I don’t think the point is valid. As I mentioned, I don’t aim it at you (as I don’t know you situation at all), but as far as generalizations go, statistics talk for themselves: people have more wealth and comfort then ever, family size is constantly shrinking, people are working more overtime, they spend less and less time with their children, etc, etc.
As far as the appropriate family size - it’s very individual, of course. But let’s face it, how valid is argument of having less children for financial reasons, if so many people spend tons of money on stuff they don’t really need: huge plasma TV, big SUV, trip to Hawaii, etc. Sure it’s stuff we’d like to own and do, but then let’s be honest: we as society choose all these nice shiny yet unnecessary material things over children.
 
Well, for one, it is becoming more and more important to obtain a degree to make a living wage. Due to such demand for a higher education in several industries, it is important to make that initial investment. This can set those back whom would like to have a child.

I don’t deny that materialism has a play - and could be the choice of those who favor that kind of lifestyle over raising children. But this doesn’t tell the whole story.

There exists a strong wealth disparity not only in the US, but in other “Western” industrialized societies that no doubt has an effect on the number of children one chooses to have. As well off as we may have it, do remember that the so called Middle Class and Working Class are sliding down the chain.
 
Yes. In general and on average Muslims are more generous to life when compared to modern first world country Catholics (The United States). If there is any reason that God gives Europe to the Muslims it is for this reason. As for the United States, it is very possible that we will lose our country to Mexico because we are not generous to life. God gave this country and freedom to us and God can take it away.

I am thankful that most of the Mexican’s are Catholic and not Muslim. For this reason we may fare better than the punishment of Europe.
 
Check the Catholic Philippines. Look at the birth rate. As with most Muslim nations, Asian nations and developing ones typically have high population growth rates. I don’t think religion is a factor in determining a country’s population.
 
I tell my wife we should have around 10 kids, I get a big NO for an answer… so I’ll settle for 5 instead 🙂
 
Steve40 said:
Yes. In general and on average Muslims are more generous to life when compared to modern first world country Catholics (The United States). If there is any reason that God gives Europe to the Muslims it is for this reason. As for the United States, it is very possible that we will lose our country to Mexico because we are not generous to life. God gave this country and freedom to us and God can take it away.

I am thankful that most of the Mexican’s are Catholic and not Muslim. For this reason we may fare better than the punishment of Europe.
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Islam is spreading rapidly among latinos. I saw some stats on it some time ago. Ill see if I can find them again.

But let me ask you Steve40, why do you think that God is going to punish Catholics in Europe?
 
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