Do Muslims Really Know Who God Is ?

[DavidMark]

Hi Kathleen! You’re probably right about them not reading the Gospel. They should! It and the Torah have honorable mention in the Quran, but they’re prevented somehow.

In the US, in 1912, Abdu’l-Baha said:
“Fifty years ago no one would touch the Christian Bible in Persia. Bahá’u’lláh came and asked, “Why?” They said, “It is not the Word of God.” He said, “You must read it with understanding of its meanings, not as those who merely recite its words.” Now Bahá’ís all over the East read the Bible and understand its spiritual teaching. Bahá’u’lláh spread the Cause of Christ and opened the book of the Christians and Jews. He removed the barriers of names. He proved that all the divine Prophets taught the same reality and that to deny One is to deny the Others, for all are in perfect oneness with God.”

Earlier than that, in Iran, when Baha’u’llah was young, a Muslim teacher showed disrespect to Jesus, by saying if He came to the door, he would not get up. The jist of what Baha’u’llah said is, ‘What if the king’s executioner came to the door?’ The man admitted he would be filled with dread. ‘Then you have been unjust in your judgment.’ Baha’u’llah told him.

 

[lwest]

grace_singh,

What a beautiful story about your conversion. Our Lord is truly amazing. But don’t beat yourself up about ‘mocking Christ’…you didn’t know any better and now you do. God’s grace showed you the truth and the humility in your heart let it in. How beautiful.

So…do you like taboule? That’s the only Arab dish I’m familiar with (or is it Lebonese?). So in my household, there’s an Italian/English and Mexican/German enjoying taboule. I love the blending of cultures in that respect!

 

[Roy5]

First, let me pay tribute to the Bahai faith. Its sincere attempt to bring all religions together is admired, even though I do not include myself among their number.

As a 'big tent' Protestant, I have struggled many years with this whole matter of is there any one true religion? Finally, I have concluded that there isn't. But there is truth in all major faiths. One of our goals as human beings - and as Christians - should be to promote love, peace and reconciliation among all people, whatever their religion. It seems to me that Christ spoke of that in his Sermon on the Mount. Something to the effect that if you come to the temple and have something against another person, leave your offering, be reconciled, then return etc. Sounds wise to me, and especially relevant.

 The problem is that too many Muslims, Catholics and evangelical Protestants are convinced that their religion is the only true one. Frankly, we are like ants trying to describe a computer when we attempt to explain this vast, marvelous and mysterious universe. That's why we should live with a combination of simple faith and humility together with genuine respect for people who have a different understanding of the world than we do. 

 We're certainly not going to be saved by theology anyway. When Christ was asked how to inherit eternal life, he said nothing about theology. He said love God and your neighbor, and then gave us that powerful parable of the Good Samaritan in which the hero was an outsider, a despised 'infidel' to the Jews of that time as Samarirans had married outside the faith.  Oh, and let me add that the whole notion of any 'chosen people' is an offense against God who would not be so unjust as to favor one group because of their blood line, their accident of birth.  We all are equally the children of God. Our challenge is to follow his lead in extending our love and respect to everyone. 

 May God bless people of every creed, color and country, and may religion become a bridge and not a barrier. Let us all work for peace and mutual respect. I love my faith and your love yours. Fine, let's walk forward together.

 

[KathleenGee]

There are many Protestants who believe in the one true Lord…the issue is which denomination or church has the fullness of faith in Who Christ is?..

Christ said He would build His church upon the rock of Peter…so it just isn’t the matter of being a Judeo Christian, but in recognizing He has left us a human institution to guide and direct us.

If you mean compassion and caring for others, Christians do not have a monopoly on this, and if these traits are genuine, they do come from God’s spirit irregardless of their personal belief systems.

Confucius named the 7 commandments dealing with one’s neighbor, but he was unable to reveal Who God is…that fullness coming from Judeo Christian salvation history.

There are aspects of Islam where there are truths revealed about God and about neighbor that we can identify with…there are others in defining God in relation to Christ that we greatly differ.

True religion always is humble and recognizing common ground with humanity.

 

[lwest]

Again, a very substantial post and a truly spiritual view, Iwest!

The Catholic take on the woman in the desert in Revelations isn’t that it’s the Blessed Mother?

 

[Roy5]

Some Protestants may be concerned about which denomination has the truth. Most Protestants I know have no such concern. They are at home in many different Protestant churches, depending upon where they live, family needs, preaching effectiveness of the minister, Sunday School program, etc.

 I am an example. When living in different communities, I have been active in Methodist, Congregational and Presbyterian churches - three denominations, by the way, that merged to become the United Church of Canada. There are differences, but not serious ones. The average worshiper might have to look at the sign outside, or the worship bulletin, to be sure which one s/he is at. I recall one congregation, a Methodist one, wheich reported that only 15% of the congregation had been Methodist all their lives. There is no concept of a one, true church. We all should work together, seeking as best we can to serve our one God by helping to make our homes, our community, our nation and our world havens of love, justice and peace. We would please God most if we did that instead of spending time trying to prove that our church alone has the full truth.

  Unfortunately, millions of Muslims have the mindset that traditionalist Catholics and many conservative and/or fundamentalist Protestants have. There is only one way - their way. More and more people, however, are becoming well-educated and understand more about the complexities and uncertainties and different schools of thinking when it comes to details of faith, Biblical scholarship, and the rest of it. When this happens, their miinds usually are opened and they are ready to respect other religions more. 

  This past Tuesday our community had an interfaith Thanksgiving service, involving a  Sikh leader, a Jewish rabbi, a Catholic priest, and a variety of Protestant ministers and laity - Lutheran, Episcopal, UCC, Methodist, Assemblies of God, Baptist. What a fine example to set before this divided world. Spiritual pride may be understandable, but spiritual arrogance is not. I am proud of my faith and its emphasis on open minds, doors, and hearts, but I also appreciate the fact that those of other faiths find comfort and strength in theirs, too. Different strokes for different folks. I actually find the differences interesting and often instructive rather than alienating. I want to say 'tell me more' instead of 'you belong to the wrong religion'.

  An old hymn begins with these words "You go to your church and I'll go to mind, but let's walk along together." I think it was Seth Parker who years ago noted tha he had found that "tea spilled in a saucer at a Protestant church supper cooled about as fast as at a Catholic church supper" - or wise words to that effect.

  God bless people of every creed, color and country.

 

[DavidMark]

First, let me pay tribute to the Bahai faith. Its sincere attempt to bring all religions together is admired, even though I do not include myself among their number. Thank you Roy. Everyone should have free will.

Oh, and let me add that the whole notion of any ‘chosen people’ is an offense against God who would not be so unjust as to favor one group because of their blood line, their accident of birth. We all are equally the children of God. Our challenge is to follow his lead in extending our love and respect to everyone.** I remember a phrase “How odd of God to choose the Jews.” It wasn’t for their merit; it’s that God had made a promise to Noah and Abraham, the Messengrs were to come from that line. **
May God bless people of every creed, color and country, and may religion become a bridge and not a barrier. Let us all work for peace and mutual respect. I love my faith and your love yours. Fine, let’s walk forward together.

 

[DavidMark]

DavidMark;5987224:

Again, a very substantial post and a truly spiritual view, Iwest!

The Catholic take on the woman in the desert in Revelations isn’t that it’s the Blessed Mother?

This may be what they came to think; it might be natural to even, but whose authoritative interpretation was it?
Here you have a Woman with Child threatened by the Serpent Satan…but it was about the future, not the past. Michael the Archangel came to rescue her and Michael is to come at the Parousia, (1 Thess. 4:16) with the “call of the Archangel and the trump of God” I hope all Catholics don’t become habituated to dismissing anything about prophetical times. “Despise not prophecy” (1 Thess 5:20)
Revelation Chapters 11, 12 & 13 are about the rise and fall of Islam in our Books.

Consider the times given: Daniel 12:7, Rev. 11:2, 3, 9 & 11, 12:6 & 14, 13:5
(These verses refer to the last half of "Seven Times of tribulation under the gentiles. The "Seven Times were 2520 years long, and ended in 1844. Ask if you have questions)

3½ “times” = 3½ biblical years of 360 “days”
3½ biblical years = 42 “months” = 1260 “days” or actual years
1260 Anno Hegira = 1844 CE

 

[NoWings]

I think it’s rather hilarious that Christians go on and on about how Allah is a proper name for an arabic moon god, when the word El that is used repeatedly in the Old Testament is a proper name for a Canaanite god.

Jesus even calls out to him. Eli, eli… My El, my El.

I don’t think God really cares what you call him. It’s the heart’s intention, the crying out to the Lord of the Universe, that’s important.

 

[NoWings]

the Quran associates the two, yet Jesus had always been called " Yasou’ " by Arabic-speaking Christians prior to Mohammad, as is to this day.

Source?

 

[dzheremi]

Source?

It is a cognate with the Hebrew “Yeshua”, and definitely predates the Qur’anic 'Isa, which as far as I’ve been able to find was not existent prior to the Qur’an. There are various theories as to where 'Isa comes from, because its composition is more than a little odd from a structural standpoint. See the entry in Dr. Arthur Jeffery’s “Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur’an”, available online here. (Note: the site it is hosted at is polemical, but Jeffery is a reputable scholar, as far as Semitic linguistics is concerned.)

 

[Mosacked]

I think it’s rather hilarious that Christians go on and on about how Allah is a proper name for an arabic moon god, when the word El that is used repeatedly in the Old Testament is a proper name for a Canaanite god.

Jesus even calls out to him. Eli, eli… My El, my El.

I don’t think God really cares what you call him. It’s the heart’s intention, the crying out to the Lord of the Universe, that’s important.

You think?..yes…that’s why its only just you thinking.

If I were you, I’d think again.

• If the name of God wasn’t important, God Himself wouldn’t have declared it in the book of Exodus, and the book of Acts wouldn’t say that the ONLY name under heaven that can save is Jesus.

.

 

[DavidMark]

I think it’s rather hilarious that Christians go on and on about how Allah is a proper name for an arabic moon god, when the word El that is used repeatedly in the Old Testament is a proper name for a Canaanite god.

Jesus even calls out to him. Eli, eli… My El, my El.

I don’t think God really cares what you call him. It’s the heart’s intention, the crying out to the Lord of the Universe, that’s important.

Exactly. I got into this with (name removed by moderator). I said ILAHi ILAHi is a more academic way of transliterating Eloi Eloi, and he said he had a degree and they were two different things and he and others have been insulting me lately, which i take as fine heady wine.

God will teach us His Oneness, no matter how long it takes. yikes!

 

[NoWings]

You think?..yes…that’s why its only just you thinking.

If I were you, I’d think again.

• If the name of God wasn’t important, God Himself wouldn’t have declared it in the book of Exodus, and the book of Acts wouldn’t say that the ONLY name under heaven that can save is Jesus.

.

Then why didn’t call Jesus call out, “Yhvh, Yhvh…” or “Adonai, Adonai”?

It isn’t just me thinking. It’s rather well-known that El is the name of the head of the Ugaritic pantheon, who was married to Asherah and had two children - Baal and Anath.

In Genesis, Melchizedek is referred to as ‘Priest of God Most High’. ‘God Most High’ is translated El Elyon. El Elyon is the name of a pagan god. Jesus is of the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek.

Do the math.

El
Elyon

 

[DavidMark]

Then why didn’t call Jesus call out, “Yhvh, Yhvh…” or “Adonai, Adonai”? It isn’t just me thinking. It’s rather well-known that El is the name of the head of the Ugaritic pantheon, who was married to Asherah and had two children - Baal and Anath. In Genesis, Melchizedek is referred to as ‘Priest of God Most High’. ‘God Most High’ is translated El Elyon. El Elyon is the name of a pagan god. Jesus is of the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek. Do the math.

I fully concur NoWIngs. And about Melchizedek (Malik-i-Sadiq “King of Truth”) being El Elyon, I see God often times taking names and making them His own, and showing how a servant, like Melchizedek, trumps those who are not faithful monotheists. EL is more than those mythologies now. Micha-EL comes with the Son of Man at the Advent.

Isaiah 60:8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
Could it be EL AL, which i took to Tel Aviv?

 

[Mosacked]

I fully concur NoWIngs. And about Melchizedek (Malik-i-Sadiq “King of Truth”) being El Elyon, I see God often times taking names and making them His own, and showing how a servant, like Melchizedek, trumps those who are not faithful monotheists. EL is more than those mythologies now. Micha-EL comes with the Son of Man at the Advent.

Isaiah 60:8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
Could it be EL AL, which i took to Tel Aviv?

And your question is? Why Jesus referred to God using a noun and not by His name? Or why u believe El is a pagan name. Or why u even mention El when scripture says Eli ?

 

[NoWings]

Micha-EL comes with the Son of Man at the Advent.

You’d be surprised at how many people never notice that their name is a descriptor in reference to God… or El, if you’re some people.

Michael - Who is like God
Daniel - Judgment of God (typically, God is my Judge)
Gabriel - Power of God (typically, God is my Strength)
Raziel - Secret of God
Samuel - Heard of God (typically, God has heard)
Uriel - Light of God (typically, God is my Light)
Azrael - Help of God (typically, Whom God helps)

and so on.

 

[lwest]

lwest;5987484:

This may be what they came to think; it might be natural to even, but whose authoritative interpretation was it?

Whos’ interpretation? Catholics believe that (a)the Bible is inspired by God Himself and (b)Jesus (the Son of God) set up the Catholic Church. Jesus said Himself that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church. Can’t get more authority than that, can we?

And regarding Catholics believing that’s ‘it’s their way is the only way’…and correcting me if I’m wrong, fellow Catholics…yes, we believe that there is no salvation outside of His Church BUT there are 3 things to remember here. First, God is the only one who judges. We mere humans better dare not speculate on who’s getting into heaven and who’s not. We don’t know peoples’ hearts. We can ‘judge’ if an action is overtly wrong but wecan’t judge whether or not a certain person is going to heaven, hell or purgatory. Secondly, people are only accountable for what they know. Catholics, really, will be held MORE accountable because we have the full truth. So more is expected of us. Third, Catholics are supposed to pray for everyone, unbelievers, too, so who’s to say those prayers aren’t helping non-Catholics get to heaven?

 

[DavidMark]

I wouldn’t like being misquoted either. Let’s find the post. If I mistook you for another poster, i’m sorry. I am searching the threads now. At least I have not been insulting! How can you say you have not been insulting?

 

[DavidMark]

Just in case you are not aware, the Bible has prophesied so many things on Islam that it will shock you to realise that as a muslim you’re sitting right inside the house of Satan…

Sorry he said that Kadveri. Mosacked, you’re right there are many things about Islam in the Bible, and it looks like you missed some of the most important.
The Two Witnesses in Rev. 11 are Muhammad and Ali, who ar “killed” ignored for 1260 years and stand up again as the Bab and Quddus, just as John the baptist was Elijah (who also shut the heavens for 3.5 years, or like Moses, they could have turned the rivers to blood. REv. 12 outlines the Cause of Islam as the Woman with the 12 star-like Imams in her crown, and the moon (symbol for the Ottoman Turks) at her feet. She is clothed with the sun, (the symbol for Persia) out which came the Bab after 1260 years. The Umayyad caliaphate is the Dragon which poisoned Imams with impunity like Herod did the babes. Baha’u’llah is Michael who extinguished the caliphate/sultanate with His Word. You can take it or leave it. Not even the Muslims take it, because it means they were wrong about the Bab & Baha’u’llah.